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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | fact or fiction STIGMATA | Gal 6:17 | joel k | 103074 | ||
does anybody have an educated opinion about stigmata? NASB is only version I know with the word (brand) added | ||||||
2 | fact or fiction STIGMATA | Gal 6:17 | khuck | 103083 | ||
Offer it up: Stigmatas, Suffering and the Catholic Church -By Jackie Alnor (Posted March 2, 2003) The Roman Catholic Church is full of traditions that seem so bizarre to those raised Protestant. One of the hardest things for Bible-based Christians to understand is the concept of self-induced suffering. This is seen most often during the season of Lent, approaching Easter. EWTN, the Catholic television network, airs footage of processions of the Catholic faithful walking up cobblestone stairs on their knees until they are bloody. Also in the processions are monks with their backs bared who lash themselves with leather whips while keeping in step with the crowds who are following behind a liter carrying an ornate and decked out statue of Mary. In some extreme cases, men present themselves every Good Friday, particularly in the Philippines, to be literally nailed to wooden crosses while the crowds gather around and look upon them with awe and approval. Some of these self-afflicted sufferers come back year after year to compete with each other to see who can stay nailed to their cross the longest. A well-known monastic practice is the wearing of hair shirts designed to make a penitent monk very uncomfortable. The wearers of the burlap attire would take vows to not satisfy the urge to scratch even as the itching became unbearable. They were to offer it up to God for merit in heaven. Bible-believing Christians look at this and get sick to their stomachs. It is obvious to them that these activities have no spiritual merit whatsoever. The Bible backs up that assessment. The Apostle Paul wrote of the spirit of this sort of thing when he said: "These are matters which have, to be sure, the appearance of wisdom in self-made religion and self-abasement and severe treatment of the body, but are of no value against fleshly indulgence" (Col 2:23). Stigmata Origins Historically, these sorts of traditions came out of the monastic practices of the Middle Ages. The Franciscan order of monks were known for their vows of poverty, strict rules, and harsh treatment of their bodies. The founder St. Francis of Assisi is the first known person to ever have the ultimate in pain piety -- the stigmata. The Catholic Encyclopedia describes this paranormal phenomena this way: "Many ecstatics bear on hands, feet, side, or brow the marks of the Passion of Christ with corresponding and intense sufferings. These are called visible stigmata. Others only have the sufferings, without any outward marks, and these phenomena are called invisible stigmata." for more on this Stigmata you can read the entire article at: http://cultlink.com/CathAnswers/Stigmata.htm -khuck |
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3 | khuck ... thanks for your answers .. | Gal 6:17 | joel k | 103124 | ||
khuck ... thank you for your answers ... the reason I ask is because when I read this scripture Gal. 6:17 Paul touched me in a way that had been very personal up until then. When your most inwardly formed thoughts ... your feelings about yourself ... are found to be already written about ... thousands of years ago ... suddenly they are not so personal anymore. At 40 years old now, I see more clearly than ever how I (unknowingly) carried the cross since childhood, and even though I know how I got my scars (both physical and spiritual) I also know that they are a mimmic of Christ. I believe Paul had the same reflections in his life, almost like a confromation from God. I have had many spiritual events in my life, and I have seen so much you won't believe. But I have always recieved from the Word of God, by His Holy Spirit, comfort in scripture because they don't just speak to me, they speak about me in the way that they relate exactly to my life and sufferings. There are a fewpeople close to me that confirm to me that I'm not out of my head because they can see the relation too. There is a movie called stigmata and a web site. They talk about st. Frances being the first documented case of stigmata occurring without being self-induced mutilation of the body. |
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4 | khuck ... thanks for your answers .. | Gal 6:17 | khuck | 103130 | ||
Hi Joel :) I can not dispute or confirm what has happened in your life. Although in all earnest I will admit to you that I am skeptical of stigmata. There are many who trust these incidents and others who are detractors of them. May I ask you please for the sake of my sincere curiosity, 1. What do you equate this phenomena to in your life? 2. Why do you think that God is relating to you in this way? 3. Do you know of any Spiritual benefit of this phenomena to yourself or others? Stigmata: In Imitation of Christ. -Author: Joe Nickell Of reputed miraculous powers, perhaps none is more popularly equated with saintliness than stigmata, the wounds of Christ's crucifixion allegedly duplicated spontaneously upon the body of a Christian. Indeed one historical survey indicated that about a fifth of all stigmatics are eventually beatified or canonized (Biot 1962, 23). The year 1999 brought renewed interest in the alleged phenomenon. Among the offerings were the movie Stigmata (which even contained a brief shot of my book, Looking for a Miracle -Radford 1999); a Fox television pseudodocumentary, Signs from God, which featured a major segment on stigmata (Willesee 1999); and the Vatican's beatification of the Italian stigmatic Padre Pio (CNN / Time 1999). For an in-progress television documentary, I took a new look at the subject. Evolving Phenomenon From the death of Jesus, about A.D. 29 or 30, nearly twelve centuries would pass before stigmata began to appear-unless one counts a cryptic Biblical reference by St. Paul. In Galatians 6:17 he wrote, "I bear in my body the marks of the Lord Jesus." Many scholars believe Paul was speaking figuratively, but in any case the statement may have been sufficient to prompt imitation. St. Francis of Assisi (1182-1226) is credited with being the first stigmatic-- or at least the first "true" one, his affliction occurring just two years after that of a man from Oxford who had exhibited the five crucifixion wounds in 1222. That man claimed to be the son of God and the redeemer of mankind, but he was arrested for imposture, his wounds presumed to have been self-inflicted. In 1224 St. Francis went with some of his "disciples" up Mount Alverno in the Apennines. After forty days of fasting and prayer he had a vision of Christ on the cross, whereafter he received the four nail wounds and a pierced side. Francis appears to have sparked a copycat phenomenon, since publication of his reputed miracle was followed by occurrences of stigmata "even among people who were much lower than St. Francis in religious stature, and have continued to occur without intermission ever since," according to Catholic scholar Herbert Thurston (1952, 122-123). He continues: What I infer is that the example of St. Francis created what I have called the "crucifixion complex." Once it had been brought home to contemplatives that it was possible to be physically conformed to the sufferings of Christ by bearing His wound-marks in the hands, feet and side, then the idea of this form of union with their Divine Master took shape in the minds of many. It became in fact a pious obsession; so much so that in a few exceptionally sensitive individuals the idea conceived in the mind was realized in the flesh. Thurston believed stigmatization was due to the effects of suggestion, but experimental attempts to duplicate the phenomenon, for example by using hypnosis, have been unsuccessful--except for a related case which appears to have been a hoax. (The psychiatrist reported that bloody tears welled inside the subject's eyelids, but a photograph shows rivulets originating outside the eyes.) |
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5 | khuck ... thanks for your answers .. | Gal 6:17 | CDBJ | 103152 | ||
Hello Khuck, So what dose all of this have to do with anything? Is it supposed to be more effective then the Word of God or what? What, biblically speaking, have these thing done for the individuals who experienced them? All of the thing that Jesus suffered, before the sins of the world were poured out on him, brought no response from him until God the father forsook him and then he cried out. Isaiah 53:7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth. Matthew 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? People have let themselves be crucified to try and experience what Christ went through on the cross, but no person, other then Jesus himself, will ever know what the pain was when our sins were placed on him and he paid our debt. If people want to know what that feels like they will have to spend an eternity in the lake of fire separated from God’s presence! The only ones who know what the suffering of Christ was like are those who have refused to trust totally in Jesus and what he did for them on the cross and it’s to late for them to do anything about it because God’s condemnation is being poured out on them for rejecting His Son. Have a nice day, CDBJ |
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6 | khuck ... thanks for your answers .. | Gal 6:17 | khuck | 103183 | ||
Hi CDBJ: Not to be rude or anything, but have you read the entire thread? Or did you just see my post and jump on it. If you did you have taken the whole thing out of context and your post is wated on me. Since the very questions that you are asking me are pretty much the same ones that I posed to the original poster. Have you read the entire thread? I was responding to someone else. One of the first things that I said in my response was that I was very skeptical of the latest stigmata phemoenon. And my post tend to explain why. Maybe your questions would be better served if they were posted to the original poster. You have a nice day too... and may God bless you in it. -khuck |
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7 | khuck ... thanks for your answers .. | Gal 6:17 | Searcher56 | 103199 | ||
khuck. Since I read the entire thread ... I would raise the same questions CDBJ did .... who was asking about your post. | ||||||
8 | khuck ... thanks for your answers .. | Gal 6:17 | khuck | 103276 | ||
And I will give you the same answer that I gave CDBJ. I was responding to the original poster who asked about Stigmata. I gave him a brief history on it and I explained why I was skeptical of it. (I ANSWERED HIS QUESTION) Then he responded back to me and told me his experiences and I asked him the same questions that you are asking me... (I asked him what is the spiritual value of his experience to himself and or others.) Why you both are asking me the same question is over my head... since in my posts to him I clearly made clear that I feel that the value of the phenomenon is only for those who want to "APPEAR" pious etc.... If we are not supposed to answer these questions (except that we agree with the poster let me know here and now, because I am tiring of this) Come out and say what you mean to me. If you do not like my answer then you answer the poster. If there is any part of my answer that is incorrect you point it out. CDBJ asked me, "So what dose all of this have to do with anything? Is it supposed to be more effective then the Word of God or what? What, biblically speaking, have these thing done for the individuals who experienced them?" I asked the poster I can not dispute or confirm what has happened in your life. Although in all earnest I will admit to you that I am skeptical of stigmata. There are many who trust these incidents and others who are detractors of them. May I ask you please for the sake of my sincere curiosity, 1. What do you equate this phenomena to in your life? 2. Why do you think that God is relating to you in this way? 3. Do you know of any Spiritual benefit of this phenomena to yourself or others? So tell me what are you asking??? you people are tripping me out on this Forum ? LOL READ THE THREAD again. You should be asking the questions to the original poster. Unless you are telling me in a sideways fashion that I should not respond to questions on "your" forum that deal with issues such as stigmata. _khuck |
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9 | khuck ... thanks for your answers .. | Gal 6:17 | Radioman2 | 103295 | ||
khuck: Hang in there. :-) Not only are you doing a good job of posting helpful information, but you yourself are a blessing and an inspiration. Grace and peace be multiplied to you, Radioman2 |
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10 | khuck ... thanks for your answers .. | Gal 6:17 | khuck | 103418 | ||
:) Kind words as always Radioman. But like I said... I did sort of bogard my way onto someones else' turf, people get possessive. Anyway it was fun hanging out and I did meet some people who are really in love with Jesus! Yet I did not come to fight, believers. And I will never shame the Body by fighting before new converts who are young in the faith or before non-believers, who may lurk about. I will leave the fighting for the wise people. May His Love be the measure of Love that we give to one another. -khuck |
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