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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Order of Worship | 1 Cor 14:26 | mark d seyler | 150866 | ||
My heart goes out to you, and I will pray for you in these weeks to come. My pastor normally gives an evangelistic type message, and we follow the prescribed format that we have for years. Recently, when he was on a trip for a few weeks, an assistant pastor stepped in, who really has a heart for exhorting the body to higher levels of ministry, and towards allowing the Holy Spirit to minister through us towards each other. He had five speaking opportunities, and he used each one to teach a powerful lesson on how this can happen, the goals of edification, the neccessity of commitment and service, and related topics. This was some of the best teaching I had heard from our pulpit for a long time. He didn't try to change the format or style (at least not very much :-) ). But he did try to wake up the church, and I am certain that, at least to some degree, he succeeded. I say all of that to say this: God is giving you an opportunity. He has a mission for you to perform. You must be wise about this, and Spirit-led, and prayerful (not nec. in that order!). You have a vision that the church desparately needs, and a chance to share it. Go get 'em, tiger! May God most richly bless you!!! Love in Christ, Mark |
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2 | Order of Worship | 1 Cor 14:26 | Aixen7z4 | 150930 | ||
My heart goes out to pastors who have to deal with this on a constant basis. I know many of them who would like to do things differently, to go the Bible way, but they are trapped in the system. In visiting churches, I have had many opportunities to conduct an entire meeting, and I have tried to do it the Bible way. But this is a formal church. The program is all scripted, and the minister is responsible for only a few items, including the sermon. This is not the idea in view in 1 Corinthians 14, but the church seems to know nothing of it, and I am afraid they may have none of it. If one tried to change the format, it may just result in a situation where good is evil spoken of (Romans 14:16). I must adapt (1 Corinthians 9:22). But thank you for your promise to pray. Please keep it, and pray for me. Please do it now, lest you forget. One faces these situations with a sense of excitement, but also with some fear, and sadness. The fact is that many churches have but a weak apprehension of what worship is. They say that giving is worship, but Acts 17:25 seems to put the lie to that. They say that listening to a sermon is worship, but that cannot be, since the Bible describes worship not as a passive activity but as an active response to an awareness of the presence of God. Worship involves bowing down, not sitting down (Genesis 24:26, Nehemiah 8:6). I know that listening can be active. It is also possible to have an interactive sermon; I’ve done it. But scripture calls for two or three prophets to speak while the others judge, etc. Where have you seen that? And this is accepting the idea of a worship service. Some would say that worship is not a kind of service at all, but is rather to be contrasted with service. I agree that the Plymouth Brethren come close to the ideal of worship in their Breaking of Bread meeting, and there may be others as well. But it is apparent some churches think there is no guidance in Scripture and they are free to do whatever they want. They may be surprised to know there are scriptures to govern the meetings of the church, but personal experience indicates believers enjoy such a meeting more, and benefit more from it, when it is done the Bible way. |
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3 | Order of Worship | 1 Cor 14:26 | Morant61 | 150945 | ||
Greetings Aixen! May I throw out two quick questions? (Three if you count the first sentence!) :-) 1) How does Acts 17:25 demonstrate that giving is not an act of worship? 2) Is 1 Cor. 14:26 proscriptive or descriptive? It seems to me that, while there are certainly principles of worship expressed, Scripture goes out of it's way to not proscribe a certain manner and order of worship. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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4 | Order of Worship | 1 Cor 14:26 | Aixen7z4 | 150949 | ||
Hello Tim: On question 1: Is giving worship? I am sure it depends on one’s definition of worship. In common parlance, worship has come to mean “The reverent love and devotion accorded a deity, an idol, or a sacred object”, “The ceremonies, prayers, or other religious forms by which this love is expressed”, “Ardent devotion; adoration“, etc. As I understand it, the essence of true worship to God is to bow down before him (Psalm 95, etc.). Yet some feel it is appropriate to bring a gift as we do so. The wise men certainly did (Matthew 2). Paul was teaching, as Isaiah had (chapter 66) that giving to God is not acceptable worship. The reason he gives immediately; God does not need anything. This, of course, we learn from Psalm 50. If we do bring a gift, then God is looking for a humble and contrite heart (Psalm 51) submission to his word (Isaiah 66) and the fruit of our lips (Hebrews 13:15). On question 2: Is 1 Corinthians 14:26 proscriptive, or descriptive (or prescriptive)? That is the key, isn’t it? Is he saying, “How is it that you do that?” or “Here‘s what you have been doing“ or “Here’s what you should do.” Most translations leave the matter ambiguous, while some, with brackets and italics, show a bias one way or the other. As always, I believe the meaning is in the context. There is no indication that they were coming prepared with those things. But according to Romans 12, 1 Corinthians 12, Ephesians 4, Colossians 3, they should have. Contrariwise, they seemed to be coming with only one thing, namely, speaking in tongues. Paul seemed to be calling for variety, for diversity, for a contribution from many. They should come prepared. But they should control themselves. They should share only that which edifies. They should take turns. They should make sure that all was done in an orderly manner. There is much in 1 Corinthians that Paul was correcting, but there is no evidence that he was against variety in the meeting. But are you certain that “Scripture goes out of it's way to not proscribe (prescribe?) a certain manner and order of worship“? It seems to me that the Old Testament prescribed in minute detail the manner in which God was to be viewed (Exodus 20, etc.) and approached (Exodus 24, Exodus 25, Leviticus 17, etc.). God’s anger and punishment was severe against those who violated those procedures (Leviticus 10). As time went on and things deteriorated, God considered their ceremonies to be at best a waste of time and at worst an affront to him (Isaiah 1:13; Malachi 1:7, etc). Would God who is a God of order leave that order up to man‘s ingenuity? It seems to me that God has prescribed an order, and men either disregard it and develop their own liturgies, or they allow the meeting of the church to descend into apparent chaos and disorder. But there are some who find guidelines in passages such as 1 Corinthians 14, the grounds for them having been laid in chapters 10, 11, 12, and 13. It might be good to look for those guidelines and principles. Otherwise we will tend to justify what we presently do. |
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5 | Order of Worship | 1 Cor 14:26 | Morant61 | 150958 | ||
Greetings Aixen! I will respond in two posts since we have two seperate issues. :-) 1) Worship: Worship is certainly tricky since Scripture doesn't clearly define it. There are many words that are translated as 'worship'. If one is to only use 'bow down' as THE word for worship, then one could restrict worship to prostration only. However, there is another word that is often used in combination with 'to bow down', and that is 'to serve'. This word is often translated as 'worship' as well. Notice why this is significant in Ex. 10:26: "Our livestock too must go with us; not a hoof is to be left behind. We have to use some of them in worshiping the LORD our God, and until we get there we will not know what we are to use to worship the LORD." Here, more than simply bowing down is clearly in view. It is in this latter sense that anything 'offered' to God can be seen as an act of worship. Ps. 95 is a good example of why we probably shouldn't use the word 'worship' just for the verb 'to bow down'. There are other actions that are commanded in Ps. 95. Are they any less 'worship' than bowing down? Or, have we artifically choosen only one word to mean 'worship'? Finally, Acts 17:25 makes no mention of the act of giving. It refers to God not 'needing' a temple within which to dwell. However, God did command the building of the temple as a place of worship. God didn't need any of the 'offerings' that He commanded, but He still commanded the Israelites to offer them. :-) Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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6 | Order of Worship | 1 Cor 14:26 | Aixen7z4 | 150969 | ||
I was well prepared to thank you for showing me other things involved in worship. But I was not expecting to hear you say that there are other things we do besides worship. Of course there are other thing we do. “Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve“. Besides worshipping God, we must serve him. But I do not see that service is the same as worship. True, “There are other actions that are commanded in Ps. 95“. But are they all worship? Is singing worship? It can be. We can worship the Lord with a song. But it would be reckless to say that all singing is worship. We can sing to the Lord (Psalm 33). But we can also sing to ourselves (Colossians 3). We can sing to each other and I can sing to myself. We can sing songs of thanksgiving (Psalm 40) and songs of praise (Psalm 100). We can combine then, as we are encouraged to in both those psalms, but I submit to you that neither thanksgiving nor praise is worship. There are times when a conjunction may render two things equal, and that is the case with “worship and bow down” in Psalm 95:6. But that is not the case with “worship … and … serve” in Matthew 4:10. Likewise, the word “neither” in Psalm 17 is a separator for two distinct things. God does not dwell in temples made with hands … and, by the way, he is not worshipped with men’s hands either. He could do one without the other, but he does neither. You said, “There is a… word … 'to serve'“, and “This word is often translated as 'worship' as well“. I wish you would review that and reconsider it. With all of my searching, I have not found that to be the case. The two are different words, different concepts. I find that service can grow out of worship, but the two are quite distinct. But now I think we have gone somewhat off track, and deeper into this particular subject than the originator of this thread intended. In asking about order in a worship service, I think the person was asking about the ordering of items in a meeting, and not about the nature of worship. Let us say that worship is one of the things we do at a meeting of the church. It would be nice if we did that, and communion too, whenever the church met. But there are other things we do, and I think we are discussing the simpler question, whether there is scripture to guide us in organizing the activities (singing, praying, preaching, etc.). If you say that everything we do at a particular meeting is worship, then we must leave it at that. I think we agree that there is scriptural guidance on the way those items are to unfold. |
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