Results 1 - 5 of 5
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Weekly Communion? | 1 Cor 11:25 | 4283 | |||
Lutherans teach the Bible says 'Do this often in rememberance of me' rather than '....do this, as often as you drink it.....'. I should have said, Lutheran's Missouri Synod. Do you think God will really judge us by how often and whether or not we used wafer or wine or grape juice or cracker? | ||||||
2 | Weekly Communion? | 1 Cor 11:25 | Tim Sheasby | 22478 | ||
A friend and brother in Christ of mine has written a treatise on the Lord's Supper and the elements thereof. He gave me a copy to read and progress is extremely slow. This is a tome of over 500 pages and explores not only the New Testament words involved but also goes into detailed research of Old Testament law relating to Passover (since this was the feast that the Lord's supper was instituted at). Further he has looked at everything he could get his hands on relating to Jewish traditions surrounding the Passover -- specifically the Babylonian Talmud and the Mishna. He concludes that the very phrase Jesus used in reference to the cup in Matthew, "this the fruit of the vine", is a term with very specific connotation to the Jewish reader of the day and specifically to the apostles eating that supper with him. This phrase comes from the Jewish blessing reserved solely for fermented grape juice (wine) that had been fermenting for a minimum of 40 days and was not more than 3 years old. I have debated this to some extent with my father who did his thesis on the use of wine in the New Testament. He disagrees with this view saying that this may be nit picking. My own research continues but one thing that concerns me is "whose example should we follow?" I have been partaking of the Lord's Supper with a group that uses alcoholic wine and unleavened bread (baked according to Old Testament formulas) because of my uncertainty on this matter. Since there was no way to preserve grape juice in those days, and the grape harvest was long past, the liquid element in the cup of Christ was clearly an alcoholic wine. If I know that this was the example of my Saviour I am not sure I want to take a chance on anything else. To argue that grape-juice and wine are both fruit of the vine and therefore the same is also suspect. The difference is not just in the alcohol content. There is another transformation that takes place in the fermentation of wine. The life and death of the yeast cells involved in the fermentation makes wine extremely rich in protien. It has a high number of the amino acids essential to life to the extent that a person could live a healthy life on bread and wine alone! Does this add new significance to the elements of the Lord's supper? I don't know for sure but for now that is the way I am going to go. In Christ Tim Sheasby |
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3 | Weekly Communion? | 1 Cor 11:25 | charis | 22480 | ||
Dear Tim, Greetings in Jesus' name! I truly respect your desire to please God. However, in your zeal to 're-create' the scene of the Last Supper, could it not become legalism? I must admit that I am appalled at the thought of using Oreos and Coke! :-) But I think that I would even prefer that to the notion that we are more pleasing to God for our efforts to be absolutely precise. My reasoning is that it is impossible to be absolutely precise! No matter how much you study what the Jews *usually* did, you could never know exactly what Jesus used. This is the pursuit of the Holy Grail, and futile, In my humble opinion. In my own fellowship, we pursue a 'reasonably similar' environment using 'reasonably similar' elements. While I know that this is open to a lot of variation (sometimes too much!), it IS to be done in remembrance of Christ, not reproduction of the scene. Blessings and peace in Christ Jesus, charis |
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4 | Weekly Communion? | 1 Cor 11:25 | Tim Sheasby | 22484 | ||
Legalism is not strict adherence to the laws of God. It is the imposition of traditions of men as if they were laws of God. The Pharisees were not condemned by Jesus for obeying the law but for binding tradition. However, I come from a very legalistic background and that may still echo in my life today. I pray not but have to face at least the possibility that it does. One point I did not mention in my previous posting is that historically alcoholic grape wine has been the only liquid element in the Lord's Supper until the American Prohibition era! Only after that did the concept of Grape Juice equals Fruit of the vine come into being. If Jesus held a cup of fermented alcoholic wine and said "I will not partake of THIS until I partake of it new with you in my Father's kingdom" was he not telling us what to use when remembering Him? If, as many argue, it is any by-product of the grape vine then why did he reject the wine offered him on the Cross and not the vinegar? To tell you the truth, I am still researching this for myself but when I think of Nadab and Abihu who offered strange fire and were struck dead for it I am forced to stop and think a bit more. They knew the correct fire to use but did not think it important so they used something else. Will you be condemned for using something else in the Lord's Supper? I really do not know. For my own conscience sake, though, I am forced to partake of the same element my Saviour used and we can be sure of one thing -- it was NOT grape juice but wine matured between 40 days and 3 years. It may or may not have been diluted with water but it was still essentially wine. Tim Sheasby |
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5 | Weekly Communion? | 1 Cor 11:25 | charis | 22501 | ||
Dear Tim, Greetings in Jesus' name! How are things in Sud Afrika? As we are saved by grace through faith, I would not expect condemnation for substituting the unfermented fruit of the vine for the fermented kind that we suppose Jesus used. This remembrance of the Lord's last meal was one of faith, not the elements themselves. If we focus on the elements themselves we can come dangerously close to attaching salvific import to them. Tim, I don't know either. I have partaken of the Lord's Supper for 20 years by faith, and I do go further than many in my attempts to mimic the enviroment, but never thought to go to the lengths you do. I do see your point, but as yet cannot agree with it. Blessings in Christ Jesus, charis |
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