Results 1 - 5 of 5
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Why do people try to disprove baptism? | John 3:5 | NLightNMe | 53399 | ||
Why do people want to prove/disprove the importance of baptism. Some say that baptism is a requirement for salvation and some say that it is not. Jesus was baptised and he is our example. Why not seek baptism for the simple fact that salvation is important in order to please God and if it means being baptised then so be it? Being immersed in water by faith of redemption cannot kill you. It is to make us better. What is the big deal about trying to belittle baptism or try to prove that it is not necessary for going to heaven. If Jesus was baptised, then so should we as well as the Apostles. That is clear and it is mentioned several times in the New Testament. Whether we should get baptised is not the issue. How should we be baptised is the real issue at hand. Acts 2:38 states that we should be baptised in the name of Jesus. Bottom line. | ||||||
2 | Why do people try to disprove baptism? | John 3:5 | McGracer | 53473 | ||
NLightNMe, You wrote: "Why do people want to prove/disprove the importance of baptism. Some say that baptism is a requirement for salvation and some say that it is not." Water baptism is important as it is an outward display of an inward reality. In true baptism, the Holy Spirit identifies us with Jesus Christ - in His death, burial, and resurrection. Water baptism is a physical picture of that spiritual truth - nothing more. "Being immersed in water by faith of redemption cannot kill you." True, brother. We are already crucified (dead), buried, and risen again in Christ. "It is to make us better." This is where there is a misunderstanding, bro. The only thing that makes us better is Christ's righteous, not water. You are either as perfect as Christ is through union with Him or you are a sinner. There is no in-between. This righteousness is accepted by faith, not by water baptism. "What is the big deal about trying to belittle baptism or try to prove that it is not necessary for going to heaven." Because the truth is that water baptism is not necessary for salvation or for going to heaven. Spirit baptism is but not water baptism. Water can do nothing to cleanse from sin. Without the shedding of blood (not the parting of water), there is no forgiveness for sin - Heb 9:22. "Whether we should get baptised is not the issue." True, the Holy Spirit faithfully baptizes EVERY believer into Christ - 1 Cor 12:13,27 "How should we be baptised is the real issue at hand." Amen, by the Holy Spirit into Jesus Christ. Water baptism is, again, just a picture of that. Food for thought: Is a picture the same thing as that being portrayed? No, it's not. A picture of you is not you. It is a representation of you. Likewise, water baptism is not the reality. It is a representation of spiritual reality. Nothing more, nothing less. But many Christians take the picture and make THAT the reality. Instead of agreeing on the truth that the picture represents, they make the picture a requirement for salvation and, in my analogy, argue over the frame, the colors, who took the picture, is it watercolor or oil?, on and on. We should be water baptized to witness to all that we have been spirit-baptized into Christ. But to make water baptism a requirement for salvation is not part of the gospel. Paul said that he came to preach the gospel, not to water baptize folks. This makes them mutually exclusive and demonstrates that while being baptized into Christ (what the Holy Spirit does) is part of salvation, water baptism (what man does) is not. I hope this helps. McGracer |
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3 | Can we stop preaching baptism? | John 3:5 | NLightNMe | 53479 | ||
You have brought out some good points. But, let me ask you this. If baptism is not necessary for salvation, then can preachers stop preaching baptism? Can we just repent, believe, and confess and do away with baptism? I understand that salvation is not brought through the actual immersion of water. I realize that it is a representation. Just as prayer, God knows our every needs and desires. He knows what we will pray for even before we pray. So, does that mean that we don't pray anymore. Instead, we just wait on God to send His blessings? God forbid, Praying is an act of faith. God wants us to openly come before Him and make our requests made known unto Him (Phillipians 4:6). God's word also says that if we ask we shall receive (John 16:24). So, by asking we show our faith that God will provide. Also, the comment about the shedding of blood, without it there is no forgiveness of sin. Of course not, I never denied this. My point was not to say that Baptism is the only means of salvation. I also, did not say that baptism was more than any other aspect of salvation. My point is that when we all have a commen goal, there is not one part of the means to obtain that goal that is any less important than the other (Romans 12:3-5). "Paul said that he came to preach the gospel, not to water baptize folks. This makes them mutually exclusive and demonstrates that while being baptized into Christ (what the Holy Spirit does) is part of salvation, water baptism (what man does) is not." The above quoted statement concers me. Paul did come to preach the gospel. What is the gospel? It is the death, burial, and ressurrection of Jesus Christ. What represents the gospel...baptism. So, even it Paul did not physically baptised people, he taught baptism. Further, you said that what the Holy Spirit does is necesarry for salvation, while what man does is not. Let me get this straight. One thing that we can agree on is that in order for salvation to take place one must repent, believe, and confess, right? So, does man repent, believe, and confess or does the Holy Spirit do this? Of course, Man. So, what man does is just as important as what the Holy Spirit does. If we did not do the work (Faith without works is dead), then we could not be blessed. God gave man his own free will. Therefore, we have to make the choice for salvation. This is done by openly displaying that we want it. The Holy Spirit will not come without this open display. So what man does and what the Holy Spirit does are both necessary for salvation, you can't have one without the other. You see, God used a man, Jesus, to bring forth salvation. What Jesus did, brought forth salvation, therefore, what we do will bring forth our own salvation. No, the water is not what cleanses us, but the act of faith by which we believe that we are buried with Christ pleases God. (Mark 16:16) states that He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. |
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4 | Can we stop preaching baptism? | John 3:5 | McGracer | 53482 | ||
NLightNMe, You wrote: "If baptism is not necessary for salvation, then can preachers stop preaching baptism?" I stated in my prior answer that we should be water baptized because it portrays the spiritual truth of the identification we have with Christ. Christ left us with two ordinances - water baptism and the Lord's Supper. Both of these are pictures of spiritual truth. Should we do them? Yes, we should. Are they required for salvation? No, they are not. They are visible manifestations that we have been saved. So I never said that we shouldn't be water baptized. I just said that it was not required for salvation. "Paul did come to preach the gospel. What is the gospel? It is the death, burial, and ressurrection of Jesus Christ. What represents the gospel...baptism." Very true. All I am saying is that we shouldn't mistake the representation for the truth. The demons believe that Jesus died, was buried, and was resurrected. Salvation is when we put faith in the fact that Christ died, was buried, and rose again for our benefit. And we trust His works, not our own, to save us. "So, what man does is just as important as what the Holy Spirit does." I would phrase this "What the Holy Spirit does in and through man is what is important." Man can do many things of his own volition and it is flesh. All of our righteousness apart from Him is as filthy rags. It is what man does as God does it through him that counts for eternity. "Apart from Me, you can do nothing." "I can do ALL things THROUGH Christ." Again, I think that we need to keep the distinction between the Spirit baptizing us into Christ (the reality which requires no water) and water baptism (which can certainly happen without the Spirit). Many folks are water baptized thinking that it saves them. It is clear from the scriptures that it is Christ's finished work that saves us. Water baptism illustrates simply that truth. Should we be water baptized? Certainly, just as we should pray, read our Bibles, share the gospel with others, give to the needy, and all the other works which the Holy Spirit does in and through us. But let's not mistake the RESULTS of the salvation that Christ has done in us for a MEANS to achieve it. So I'm not saying not to preach water baptism. I'm saying to preach what baptism REALLY is and means - union with Christ - and then offer folks the opportunity to publically display that wonderful union through water baptism. Hope this helps. McGracer |
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5 | Can we stop preaching baptism? | John 3:5 | NLightNMe | 54386 | ||
Mcgracer, you did make your statement more clear to me, I agree that we need to teach what baptism REALLY means. However, I still believe that baptism is necessary for salvation, Mark 16:16 and Acts 2:38 makes this very clear. I know that water baptism itself does not save us, but it is a means by which we shall be saved. I recognize that there is a spiritual baptism and a water baptism. It is clear that both are necessary. There were instances in the bible where men were already spiritually baptised and they were commanded to be water baptised (Acts 10:46-48). Why would they receive a commandment to be water baptised in the name of the Lord if it was just ok for them to be spiritually baptised? I believe that the two go hand in hand. | ||||||