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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Matt. 23:37 Calvinism or Arminianism? | Matt 23:37 | Morant61 | 70450 | ||
Greetings All! I'm not going to address the Question of C or A! But, I will diagram the sentence so that everyone will be able to determine who 'ye' is! :-) "Jerusalem, Jerusalem (Feminine, Singular, Vocative case of address), You who kill (Articular Present, Active Participle,Feminine, Singular, Vocative) the prophets and who stone (Present, Active Participle,Feminine, Singular, Vocative) those sent (Articular, Perfect, Passive, Participle, Masculine, Singular, Accusative - object) to her (3rd person pronoun, Feminine, Singular, Accusative), how often I wanted (Aorist, Active, Indicative, 1st person, Singular) to gather together (Aorist, Active, Infinitive) the children of you (2nd Person pronoun, Genitive, Singular)............and not you would (Aorist, Active, Indicative, 2nd person, Plural). The interesting thing about this verse is that Jesusalem, you who kill and stone the prophets, and even the 'of you' in the phrase 'the children of you' are all singular in number. Yet, the last verb is plural in number. The only word in the verse which this plural could refer to is 'the children' whom God wanted to gather together. Greek is a very precise language. A verb and the pronouns associated with it will all agree in number. So, I would say that the children of Jerusalem, whom God wanted to gather together, were not willing to be gathered together. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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2 | Matt. 23:37 Calvinism or Arminianism? | Matt 23:37 | John Reformed | 70466 | ||
Hi Tim, Given that Jesus is addressing the pharisees, would'nt the natural conclusion be that "Ye would not" refers to those He was addressing? The subject of verse 37 is Jerusalem and therefore, "Ye" points back to Jerusalem. Matt 23:13 "But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you shut off the kingdom of heaven from people; for you do not enter in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in." How do the Pharisees prevent people from entering the Kingdom of Heaven (see verse 37) Matt 23:31 "So you testify against yourselves, that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets (see verse 37 ) It seems plain that it is the pharisees, that Jesus speaks about throughout the chapter, which are the ones who were not willing to have the children gathered together. Pehaps, if v 37 was the only verse in the 23rd chapter, we would have to conclude that Jerusalem and children referred to the same group. That is the reason I suggested the clue to understanding who "Ye" refers to is found in the PREceeding verses of the same chapter. I don't know greek, but I know a enough about english to get by. And to Have the subject change so radically at the conclusion of a discouse is improper. Matt 23:37 "Jerusalem, Jerusalem (The Pharisees) who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her!( Jesus accuses the pharisees of stoning the Prohets in v 31) How often I wanted to gather your children (those under the authority of the Pharisees) together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you (pharisees) were unwilling" Does'nt that make much more sense? Why would Jesus go on and on about the pharisees only to finish by blaming the people? What does make sense is blaming the pharisees for not being willing to allow their children (the commn folk) to gather together. John |
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3 | Matt. 23:37 Calvinism or Arminianism? | Matt 23:37 | Morant61 | 70468 | ||
Greetings John! Greek is able to make some abrupt breaks, as opposed to English, simply because its forms are so precise. But, whether you see the 'ye' as referring to the Pharisees or to the children, either way, God was not able to gather the children because someone was unwilling. So, we have two choices: a) God wanted to gather the children of Jerusalem, but could not because they were not willing. or, b) God wanted to gather the children of Jerusalem, but could not because the Pharisees were unwilling. Of course, then the question arises, "How could the Pharisees prevent God from doing anything He wanted to do?" If it were the individuals themselves who were unwilling, then one could say that God was not able because He would not vilolate their free choice. However, if the Pharisees were not willing for God to gather the children together, on what basis would God have been unable to do so? One more note about Mt. 27:31. That verses does not accuse the Pharisess of stoning the prophets, but of being sons of those who stoned the prophets. Thus, Mt. 27:37 would seem to stretch back in time to their fathers and forward to those in the present - or to all of the children of Jerusalem! :-) |
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4 | Matt. 23:37 Calvinism or Arminianism? | Matt 23:37 | John Reformed | 70478 | ||
Hi Tim, Your queston is:"How could the Pharisees prevent God from doing anything He wanted to do?" Ps 8:5 "Yet You have made him a little lower than God..." Heb 2:9 "But we do see Him who was made for a little while lower than the angels, namely, Jesus.." Jesus willingly set aside His divine power and submitted to the humility of being man as well as God. The single objection you raised has been answered and substantiated by Scripture. May I presume that my answer to your question, has now convinced you that "Ye" must (given the context of the entire chapter)refer to the Pharisees. John P.S. Thanks for pointing out my mistake re v. 31 |
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