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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Did this occur before Gen 1:1 or after? | Is 14:12 | Ron | 58619 | ||
After. It's speaking of the King of Babylon. Read verse 4. "Falling from heaven" or literally "from the heavens" is figurative language describing the King's fall from power. | ||||||
2 | Did this occur before Gen 1:1 or after? | Is 14:12 | Ray | 58686 | ||
Hi Ron, Let's look at Isaiah 14 with a view toward capitalization. You have written about the "King" of Babylon. This king should be differentiated from the King of kings. This "Satan" of which we speak is not Deity and the king of Babylon says in Isaiah 14:14, "'I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High/'" Notice the "myself". We should be able to differentiate between this entity and the Man, Jesus Christ. It is because of this verse that I go with the NKJ for John 10:33. John 10:33, "The Jews answered Him, saying, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a *Man, make Yourself/ out to be God." Hebrews 5:8, "Although He was a Son, He learned obedience from the things which He suffered. And having been made perfect, He became to all those who obey Him the source of eternal salvation, being designated by God as a *High Priest/ according to the order of Melchizedek." This High Priest is the Most High and the Man, Jesus Christ. From the heart, Ray |
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3 | Did this occur before Gen 1:1 or after? | Is 14:12 | Ron | 58747 | ||
I'm not sure what your point is unless it is because I capitalized the word king when referring to the king of Babylon. If that offened you I apologize. I certainly didn't intend for anyone to think I was comparing the king of Babylon with the King of kings. It is a fact that Isa. 14:4 makes clear that the "shining star, son of the morning" was not Satan but the king of Babylon. | ||||||
4 | Did this occur before Gen 1:1 or after? | Is 14:12 | Ray | 58993 | ||
Hi Ron, You did not offend me and you don't need to apologize. But I am glad that you see that capitalization makes a difference and can put things in perspective. That there is a difference between the Son and the son of the morning for instance. Here is what MacArthur's study bible says for Isaiah 14:12-14 fallen from heaven...be like the Most High. "Jesus' use of v.12 to describe Satan's fall (Luke 10:18, cf Rev. 12:8-12) has led many to see more than a reference to the king of Babylon. Just as the Lord addressed Satan in His words to the serpent (Gen. 3:14,15), this inspired dirge speaks to the king of Babylon and to the devil who energized him. See Ezek.28:12-17 for similar language to the king of Tyre and Satan behind him." So here is a comparison of them: Isaiah 14:4, "...that you will take up this taunt against the king of Babylon, and say, "How the oppressor has ceased, And how fury has ceased! The *Lord has broken the staff of the wicked, The scepter of rulers...How you have FALLEN FROM HEAVEN, O star of the morning, son of the dawn!" Luke 10:18, "And He said to them, "*I was watching Satan FALL FROM HEAVEN like lightning." Ezekiel 28:14, "You were the anointed cherub who covers, And I placed you there. You were on the holy mountain of *God; you walked in the midst of the stones of fire. Revelation 12:13, "And when the dragon saw that he was thrown down to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male child [Child, NKJ]...And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of *Jesus." From the heart, Ray |
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5 | Did this occur before Gen 1:1 or after? | Is 14:12 | Ron | 59059 | ||
The expression "FALLEN FROM HEAVEN" in both cases simply indicates that their power was lost. The fact that Jesus used language like Isaiah was inspired to use does not indicate that Isaiah was talking about Satan. It is very clear from the context that Isaiah is speaking of the king of Babylon. | ||||||
6 | Did this occur before Gen 1:1 or after? | Is 14:12 | Ray | 59066 | ||
Hi Ron, You are correct that it is very clear that Isaiah is speaking of the king of Babylon. However, I believe that the God who is called "The Word" is capable of using words for His glory. From the heart, Ray |
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7 | Did this occur before Gen 1:1 or after? | Is 14:12 | Ron | 59070 | ||
If He is speaking of the king of Babylon, why read something else into it? Why not just take it for what it says unless there is another passage in the Bible that applies this passage to what you are applying it to? If an inspired writer applied this passage to something else, I would accept that. But I don't know of any inspired writer of either the Old Testament or the New Testament that applies this passage to anything else other than the king of Babylon. The use of similar language by someone else (Jesus - Luke 18) does not mean that He quoted from this passage and applied it to Satan. | ||||||
8 | Did this occur before Gen 1:1 or after? | Is 14:12 | Ray | 59611 | ||
Hi Ron, I am sorry that I haven't answered your post very quickly. I'm starting now to go over some threads to see whom I may have neglected or overlooked. The use of the similar language of Jesus in Luke and here in Isaiah does not mean that He quoted from this passage and applied it to Satan. You are correct in saying that. But it is possible, I believe. The seven "words" on the cross show that Jesus was thinking of Scriptures even on the cross. I believe His mind and heart were full of Scriptures always and I see a reason why this one in Isaiah could have come to His mind during the Luke 10:18 account of activities. In Luke Jesus saw Satan fall from heaven and He may have been thinking of the king of Babylon and "How you have fallen from heaven, O star of the morning, son of the dawn." The disciples said that demons were subject to them in His name; they were ruling over their oppressors. Isaiah 14:4 has the taunt against the king of Babylon, "How the oppressor has ceased, And how fury has ceased! The Lord has broken the staff of the wicked, the scepter of rulers which used to strike the peoples in fury with unceasing strokes,..." Or, perhaps Jesus was thinking during the Luke account of the king of Tyre, and the son of man's lamentation over him. "You were the anointed cherub who covers, And I placed you there. You were on the holy mountain of God; you walked in the midst of the stones of fire." Jesus may have had that in mind also during the Luke activities as Ezekiel 28:16 continues, "Therefore I have cast you as profane From the mountain of God. And I have destroyed you, O covering cherub, From the midst of the stones of fire." You are correct that we do not have any documentation that Jesus was thinking of these kings during that time, but I believe that the application can be seen as appropriate when we compare the Scriptures. A third comparison for a look at the morning star would be Revelation 2:27,28. I have read that there are four main interpretations given for the promise of the morning star. I go with the second one that William Barclay suggests in "The Daily Study Bible Series", volume one of the Revelation of John. b)It is taken as the conquest of Lucifer. Lucifer is the devil, the angel who was so proud that he rebelled against God and was cast over the battlements of heaven (Isaiah 14:12). Lucifer means light-bringer and it is the name of the morning star. If that be so, this is a promise of complete power over Satan and over sin." So I believe that the morning star is correctly in lower case and it is not talking about Christ. But that is another discussion at another time. I hope that I expressed well enough my viewpoint and that some of this has been meaningful. From the heart, Ray |
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9 | Did this occur before Gen 1:1 or after? | Is 14:12 | Ron | 59792 | ||
Okay Ray, thanks for your comments. I can only go with what the word says. I can't get into Jesus' mind and read it and tell what He was thinking of. Again, Jesus is simply showing that Satan's power had been hurt by the disciples abilility to cast out demons. I'm just saying the language is similiar because the same thought is in mind. The power is taken away form the king of Babylon (Isa. 14) and the king of Tyre (Ezek. 28) and in Luke Jesus uses the same type of language (figurative) to indicate that Satan's power had been lessened by the disciples' actions. Thanks Ray. | ||||||
10 | Did this occur before Gen 1:1 or after? | Is 14:12 | Ray | 59795 | ||
Hi Ron, Thank you for your comments as well. The question has been a good impetus for thought. Mark 16:15, "And (He) said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned. And these signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons..." Luke 10:17, "And the seventy returned with joy, saying, "(Lord), even the demons are subject to us in Your name." We serve a Lord who knew the end from the beginning and His name is even the Beginning and the End. And I think that it is important for this thread also to note that even though the demons or spirits are indeed subject to us; what we rejoice in is that our names are written in heaven. He knows the end from the beginning. From the heart, Ray |
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