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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Flesh or Spirit | Psalm | Wild Olive Shoot | 154964 | ||
Hi Doc, Would like your thoughts on, what I take as, the noticeable declension of the church in Ephesus (Revelation 2:4,5) compared to the so-called “backslidden” state. I’m really glad this subject came up. I’m currently studying 1 John and am having difficulties reconciling the fact that we do indeed sin, even with what the Holy Spirit does accomplish within us. From 1 John specifically, I come to an understanding that the Spirit of God works to the same result in all circumstances and that He can in no case produce un-holiness. Outside of this epistle you find reference to “quenching the Spirit” as in 1 Thessalonians 5:19. But even within the epistle I come to the conclusion that we receive a new nature at regeneration but keep remnants of the old. Could that, along with the rebuke given to the Church in Ephesus in Revelation, be indicative to the possibility of a backslidden condition within a Christian’s life? We are warned numerous times to beware of those who would lead us astray and arguably, it seems we can “forsake our first love” to a “degree” of falling away. Or is this a complete falling away from Christ? I get the sense, and I’m posting for the purpose of some sort of guidance here because I’m just really not sure, that there may be simply a temporary backslidden state to which we can repent of? Would really like to get everyone’s take on this. WOS |
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2 | Flesh or Spirit | Psalm | jlhetrick | 154972 | ||
Hi WOS, Interesting topic with debateable points and probably answered through the search funtion. Rom 2:7-11 7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9 There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10 but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11 For God does not show favoritism. NIV These verses do not refer to backsliding Christians but rather to the saved (who receive eternal life), and the unsaved (who reject the truth of God and receive wrath and anger). The debate you seem to be having with yourself here is the old one of "once saved always saved?" See Heb 6:4 This verse is used by both camps to argue both the possibility of losing one's salvation as well as the impossibility of losing one's salvation. The "can lose" camp argue that this verse clearly teaches the possibiity of losing salvation. If one has "been enlightened" and "shared in the Holy Spirit", and "tasted the goodness of the Word of God and the powers of the coming age", this person must have absolutely been saved. The "can not lose" camp argues from a different perspective. The one "falling away" here is likened to Judas Iscariot. Having seen the works of God in Jesus himself and even having "shared in those works" and "tasted the goodness of the word of God" in the hearing of Jesus' word, and "witnessing the powers of the coming age" by being witness to the miracles of Christ. It would appear from Scripture that Judas in fact performed miracles as one of the deciples sent out in Matt. 10:1 the argument continues against Judas that he "was a traitor" (Luke 6:16) was entered into by Satan (further supported by theological argument that a true christian can not be possessed literally though he might be harrassed or oppressed) and possibly the most important reference Judas lef his ministry to "go where he belongs" (Acts 1:25) Though this last reference doesn't specifically say that Judas died eternally lost, taken in context with the rest of scripture, it certainly appears to be the case. Finally, the "can't loose your salvation" argument logically argues that scripture teaches that once you are justified by Christ it is impossible to be unjustified. The logical argument might go like this. If there is anything one can do to undo his salvation, this thing would be a greater work than the greatest mirical of all that which only Christ could accomplish in reconciling the sinful man to the Father. If we can not be "saved" by our works, how can we be "unsaved" by our works once we have been justified? As a Christian I have gone back and forth on what I believe regarding this as I moved from church to church and teaching to teaching in my travels. The debate is much more involved than what I have articulated above but let me say that based on what I have discovered for myself in the bible, I am convinced that nothing can undo my salvation and that once a person is justified by Christ, he/she is saved once and for all time. Paul said it best: Rom 8:38-39 38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. NIV |
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3 | Flesh or Spirit | Psalm | Hank | 154974 | ||
Dear jihetrick: You have presented a remarkably well-balanced and careful presentation of one of the most difficult and disputed issues of the Christian faith. I suppose few thoughtful Christians (and one would hope that all Christians are thoughtful!) have not grappled with this issue of the eternal security of the believer at one time or another. The conclusion you have reached parallels mine, which has not come easy, being for me a long and circuitous journey in faith, freighted with much prayer and searching of the Scriptures. But anything short of the doctrine of the eternal security of the believer smacks of a works-based soteriology: if man can save himself by his works, the logical conclusion is that he can also 'unsave' himself by them; but if man cannot save himself by his works, neither can he 'unsave' himself by them. But once we are enabled by the Holy Spirit to come to grips with the incontrovertible realities of God's absolute sovereignity and our total inability to save ourselves, the biblical doctrine of the eternal security of the believer makes sense. Salvation is by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone. It is the gift of God which we can never earn and which, being both the gift of God and eternal, cannot be snatched away. ...... A singularly excellent post, jihetrick. --Hank | ||||||
4 | Flesh or Spirit | Psalm | jlhetrick | 155000 | ||
Thanks Hank, It always helps to have your understanding of a topic confirmed by another. I wich I could have thought of the words you used in your post to better articulate my points. They go well together. Jeff |
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