Results 381 - 400 of 562
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Results from: Notes Author: Rowdy Ordered by Verse |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
381 | Baptism-What Does the Bible Teach? | Acts 2:38 | Rowdy | 133381 | ||
I must admit, at first glance your post seems to be well written and appears quite logical but there's a big flaw in the logic. For some strange reason there seems to be a growing tendancy to question the fact of the Apostles being baptized when the Scriptures don't address that issue EXCEPT for this one instance. Acts 9:8 Saul got up from the ground, and though his eyes were open, he could see nothing; and leading him by the hand, they brought him into Damascus. 9 And he was three days without sight, and neither ate nor drank. 10 Now there was a disciple at Damascus named Ananias; and the Lord said to him in a vision, "Ananias." And he said, "Here I am, Lord." 11 And the Lord said to him, "Get up and go to the street called Straight, and inquire at the house of Judas for a man from Tarsus named Saul, for he is praying, 12 and he has seen in a vision a man named Ananias come in and lay his hands on him, so that he might regain his sight." 13 But Ananias answered, "Lord, I have heard from many about this man, how much harm he did to Your saints at Jerusalem; 14 and here he has authority from the chief priests to bind all who call on Your name." 15 But the Lord said to him, "Go, for he is a chosen instrument of Mine, to bear My name before the Gentiles and kings and the sons of Israel; 16 for I will show him how much he must suffer for My name's sake." 17 So Ananias departed and entered the house, and after laying his hands on him said, "Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road by which you were coming, has sent me so that you may regain your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit." 18 And immediately there fell from his eyes something like scales, and he regained his sight, and he got up and was baptized; 19 and he took food and was strengthened. Now for several days he was with the disciples who were at Damascus, You might notice that here Paul is baptized in a hurry (like the Phillipian jailer) as he does so before he eats a meal after 3 days of fasting. If baptism wasn't required for salvation, don't you think he could have waited? Similar to the jailer, if baptism isn't important, he could have waited till daybreak especially since he placed a high priority on tending to the ex-prisoner's wounds. You see, the whole logic of your article falls apart. The Bible simply doesn't address the issue of the other Apostles getting baptized at all, only Saul, later Apostle Paul. But throughout the Bible, I can see there are a few minor places where the emphasis isn't quite as plain as in Acts 2:38 so ultimately a person is faced with a quandry in his lap. 1) Should I be conservative, play it safe and be baptized to have my sins forgiven as cited in Acts 2:38 OR 2) Should I take a chance, take my salvation for granted like others do and get baptized at a later date? I've said this many times now and will repeat myself again and again as needed. When the Bible places these kind of options in front of us in response to this issues, I'll always recommend the "better safe than sorry" approach as endorsed by our Lord with his parable about cutting off a hand or gouging out an eye. Why take a chance with a controversial handful of verses when they ARE very definitely some few verses that clearly depict what I'm saying to be true. It's also in keeping with the practice of circumcision. A convert to Judiasm was NOT considered a Jew until AFTER the circumcision and we both know how our God truly is a bloody God. And since the Bible doesn't say one or the other about the Apostles, it's safe to say they were baptized before receiving salvation, since they would want to be consistent with what they were preaching. I do hope you'll keep studying and praying on this subject. God bless. Rowdy |
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382 | Baptism-What Does the Bible Teach? | Acts 2:38 | Rowdy | 133427 | ||
If you boys are finished playing, it's time to come back into school and do your homework. I'd be interested in your more thorough response to the flawed logic I identified in Kalos' article. Why don't you and BradK both take a chop at explaining why Saul and the Phillipian jailer were baptized in such a hurry? Can you quote me a verse that cites "faith only" does in fact get you salvation? That's why a person has to study ALL of what the Bible says on a particular subject, in this case salvation or being saved from our sins. Next, please explain to me exactly what was Jesus saying in his parable about chopping off hands and gouging out eyeballs? Why don't we see lots of christians without these body parts since we're all still sinners? Please explain. Thanks. God bless all of you. Rowdy |
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383 | Baptism-What Does the Bible Teach? | Acts 2:38 | Rowdy | 133428 | ||
If you boys are finished playing, it's time to come back into school and do your homework. I'd be interested in your more thorough response to the flawed logic I identified in Kalos' article. Why don't you and Hank both take a chop at explaining why Saul and the Phillipian jailer were baptized in such a hurry? Can you quote me a verse that cites "faith only" does in fact get you salvation? That's why a person has to study ALL of what the Bible says on a particular subject, in this case salvation or being saved from our sins. Next, please explain to me exactly what was Jesus saying in his parable about chopping off hands and gouging out eyeballs? Why don't we see lots of christians without these body parts since we're all still sinners? Please explain. Thanks. God bless all of you. Rowdy PS: ANYONE doing a thorough study of my posts on this Forum would have to conclude I believe very strongly AGAINST "wishy-washy faith." I do, however believe in studying ALL of God's Word and drawing the proper conclusions that He wants drawn from His Words. I challenge you to do the homework and respond to my points cited above. Thanks. |
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384 | Baptism-What Does the Bible Teach? | Acts 2:38 | Rowdy | 133429 | ||
I almost forgot you didn't thoroughly address the obvious connection between circumcision and baptism. Before you dismiss me completely, think about what I'm saying. We're discussing two different dispensations: in the Jewish era dominated by the Law of Moses, there were provisions for allowing foreigners into God's family and that process included the men being circumcised. In the same vein, the process for allowing us Gentiles into God's family in this era includes baptism. In both eras, a person was NOT considered a actual legitimate member of God's family until he completed the whole process. Please respond to the logic of my argument here along with the other points of my earlier posts. I appreciate it and look forward to continuing our discussion. God bless. Rowdy |
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385 | Baptism-What Does the Bible Teach? | Acts 2:38 | Rowdy | 133442 | ||
I appreciate your contribution to this discussion and looking forward to others' participation. But you didn't cite any verses that either say "believe only" or teach such a concept. Please cite such a verse if you can. Also, I'd love to see your response to my challenge to BradK about the connection between these processes of getting into God's family 1) the Jewish family or Isrealites during the OT era and 2) the christian family under the Headship of Jesus Christ. Specifically, I'm comparing the process by which a foreigner was allowed into these two fellowships. In the former, the process was consumated with circumcision before which a man was NOT considered part of the family. In the latter, the process of Plan of Salvation if you prefer is consumated with baptism as shown throughout the Book of Acts. By the way, I agree that we are INDEED saved by Grace through our faith as you've cited in Eph 8. Part of that faith process involves total submission to Christ's Terms and Conditions as cited throughout the 87 verses on this subject of baptism. You see, our God really requires a lot more than just belief for the devil believes. So, apparently it's NOT all that big a deal to believe in God or His Son. The big difference that both God and His Son want to see is how we respond to our belief. That's one reason why Christ says Matthew 7:21 Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Looking forward to your reply. God bless. Rowdy |
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386 | Baptism-What Does the Bible Teach? | Acts 2:38 | Rowdy | 133451 | ||
Just wanted to get your response on all the points in my answer to Kalos' article, copied here for reference. I do have to agree with you, Kalos is an excellent Bible student and handles himself very well but I see nothing wrong with "Don't you think..." approach when it's warranted by God's Word. Peter encourages this kind of thinking with his guidance 1 Peter 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts, and always be ready to give a defense to everyone who asks you a reason for the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear; The Greek word here for denfense includes the idea of using our "logical mind" in defending this hope and faith that is within us. So when the Bible is not absolutely crystal clear as in this discussion on baptism, we find we must use our minds and try to see the intent behind our Father's Words. I would also refer you to my Post No 133381 and ask for your response thereto. From my earlier post: I appreciate your contribution to this discussion and looking forward to others' participation. But you didn't cite any verses that either say "believe only" or teach such a concept. Please cite such a verse if you can. Also, I'd love to see your response to my challenge to BradK about the connection between these processes of getting into God's family 1) the Jewish family or Isrealites during the OT era and 2) the christian family under the Headship of Jesus Christ. Specifically, I'm comparing the process by which a foreigner was allowed into these two fellowships. In the former, the process was consumated with circumcision before which a man was NOT considered part of the family. In the latter, the process of Plan of Salvation if you prefer is consumated with baptism as shown throughout the Book of Acts. By the way, I agree that we are INDEED saved by Grace through our faith as you've cited in Eph 8. Part of that faith process involves total submission to Christ's Terms and Conditions as cited throughout the 87 verses on this subject of baptism. You see, our God really requires a lot more than just belief for the devil believes. So, apparently it's NOT all that big a deal to believe in God or His Son. The big difference that both God and His Son want to see is how we respond to our belief. That's one reason why Christ says Matthew 7:21 Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Looking forward to your reply. God bless. Rowdy |
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387 | Baptism-What Does the Bible Teach? | Acts 2:38 | Rowdy | 133461 | ||
I guess you're right, it's NOT particularly clear as to when he believed but I don't see your point. Surely, you're NOT saying that there's a great amount of importance to the timing of our belief in Christ. You might notice the scriptures don't say Paul actually repented or confessed the Name of Jesus Christ as His Lord and Savior but he surely does preach that simple Gospel message in his ministry. So please help me out. What's the real point of your post here? Again, I'll agree the timing of one's belief seems like it should take place before repentance, otherwise why should a person repent? But a person could argue about timing or the sequence of the Steps of Salvation all day. What are you trying to say? God bless. Rowdy |
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388 | Isn't 24 more than one? | Acts 2:38 | Rowdy | 133470 | ||
Dear Tim, my friend. I'm only trying to be as precise as you are endeavoring to do. My whole answer in this regard is hinged on the fact nowhere in the Bible does God depict a concept of getting salvation with just simple belief without some kind of proof. The verses you've cited point toward that process and belief is absolutely a very necessary step in the right direction. But you keep side-stepping one of my most important points. Even the devil believes in God and always has. He like Cain, Moses and so many others have had one-on-one, personal conversations with God and Jesus. So he can't help but believe and I'm convinced he even knows that he's going to Hell as he probably knows Bible principles much better than you and me. The big difference between christians and the devil is our response to this belief. God commands men everywhere to repent and be baptized, Acts 2:38 for we all put Christ on that cross. AND we continue to do so as long as we don't establish a relationship of salvation through Him in His Name. I don't really think I can be any more clear. The Bible simply doesn't teach the concept of "belief or faith only" will get a person saved. We must follow through and complete the process, the Terms and Conditions of our Lord's Last Will and Testament. Remember, we'll be judged by ALL the Words from Jesus on Judgment Day. Do continue studying and praying on this matter. Meanwhile, I'm hoping others on the Forum will respond to this thread. Let's see what they might have to say. God bless. Rowdy |
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389 | Isn't 24 more than one? | Acts 2:38 | Rowdy | 133475 | ||
I'm sorry, I should have referred you to the post wherein I cited the following verse Col 2:11 In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. Like I alluded to in an earlier post, circumcision was the seal of God's approval adding a foreign Gentile to the Jewish family. This verse above makes it pretty clear that the modern seal for christians is baptism. It's the act of total obedience, indicating total submission of our will to God's Will, just like circumcision was for those folks in the OT, especially for grown men. Our wisdom is submitted to His Wisdom. 1 Cor 1:24 but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men. Also 1 Pet 3:21 There is also an antitype which now saves us--baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, Just what do you think is the antitype that Peter is referring to? What else could it possibly be? How can you ignore the power of 87 verses, mentioning baptism in the NT that together as a whole is far more powerful than the 70 times repentance is mentioned throughout the whole Bible? So what basic principle would you call when Jesus was illustrating with his discussion of chopping off hands and gouging out eyeballs? Why are there not thousands or millions of christians walking around missing body parts? Please advise. "In the true final analysis," on Judgment Day, I want to be one of those hearing "Well done good and faithful servant." Better than that, I want to be certain so I don't trust rabbit's feet or any other superstition. I put ALL of my trust in God's Word, ALL of His Word. That's how much I esteem the Grace of God. How about you? Which portion of God's Word are you obeying? God bless. Rowdy |
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390 | Isn't 24 more than one? | Acts 2:38 | Rowdy | 133477 | ||
Steve, my friend, you're putting words in my mouth for I didn't say "...yet your definition of proof is baptism." Instead, I would say that a christian must place his confidence, like I've been alluding to all along, in ALL the words of the Bible, with special emphasis on the NT as Christ took the authority of the OT with Him to the cross. When a Bible student studies God's Word thoroughly and collects ALL the acts, words and everything associated with salvation or the saving of a person from his sins, there are a few things that stick out. Those actions are Hear, Believe, Repent, Confess and be Baptized in the Name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost. After that one must continue studying God's Word and finds out about adding fruits of the Spirit, imitating Christ's lifestyle like the Apostles and being faithful till death as recorded in Rev 2:10. There's much, much more like our perfecting our love for ALL mankind as described in 1 Cor 13. But the most important thing to remember is this: the Lord wants to refine us and get us away from our addiction to this physical, finite world and have us join Him in His spiritual, infinite world in the Hereafter. But this has to be done in accordance with His timetable. We just need to submit ourselves as clay to the Potter. I've already addressed the situation with the 24 verses from Tim. None of them cite "faith or belief only" to the exclusion of anything, least of all baptism. You and I both have to accept God's Whole "Enchilada" and comply with His every wish. Eccl 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God and keep His commandments, For this is man's all. 14For God will bring every work into judgment, Including every secret thing, whether good or evil. I hope this clears up the controversy for you. God bless. Rowdy |
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391 | Question for Rowdy.... | Acts 2:38 | Rowdy | 133549 | ||
Sorry for the mix up. Country Girl is my wife and I forgot to change the ID which comes up automatically on our computer after she logs on. I thought you might have heard, in many circles most Bible students consider the ark to be the antitype of the church, complete with an ocean of sins. The ark is built to the Lord's specifications vs. the church being built to Jesus' specifications. I agree with you, "the emphasis is still on Faith," an active and obedient Faith, totally submissive to God's Will in contrast to the devil who also believes in God but has always refused to obey God and His Commands. I can only think of one more scripture to compliment your statement of "only 1 door." Eph 4:4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all. 7 But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ's gift. Hope this helps and God bless. Rowdy |
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392 | Question for Rowdy.... | Acts 2:38 | Rowdy | 133578 | ||
As I noted in another post, Country Gir is my wife and I neglected to change the automatic ID that comes up on the computer, thus my big goof. I apologize for the confusion. I didn't give scriptures as you put it because I've cited all 87 of them in the past. The sum total of those scriptures do make for a rather strong conclusion in most Bible student's minds, including mine. But you seem to have neglected to notice my challenge was never met with scripture either. I'll repeat the challenge for your reference and response if you'd like. Basically, I'm looking for a verse that says that we can be saved by faith only (alone) or belief only (alone), excluding all other features of Christianity. As I'm sure you already know, I mentioned earlier in the thread, the only place in the Bible that mentions this phrase is from James. James 2:24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone. In this verse the concept of "faith alone" is cited in a negative context. That is, faith alone won't get you anything with man or God. In this world, if a man says he has faith but then does NOT act like it, we say he's a hypocrite. Same attitude with God and His Son as shown in Rev 3:16. I don't see how the Bible or I could be any more clear about the matter. As I mentioned previously God does expect us to use our intellect and make certain conclusions based on His Word, especially in those few areas when some few verses aren't ideally clear like those verses pointed out by our dear friend Tim. I've also mentioned God isn't going to make this process of digging out His commands any simpler than He already has. It's all in His Book, our Bible. You know the scriptures at least as well as I do, probably a little better. This I do know: God will hold ALL of us accountable to His Words just like His Son said. John 12:44 And Jesus cried out and said, "He who believes in Me, does not believe in Me but in Him who sent Me. 45 "He who sees Me sees the One who sent Me. 46 "I have come as Light into the world, so that everyone who believes in Me will not remain in darkness. 47 "If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world. 48 "He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day. 49 "For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak. 50 "I know that His commandment is eternal life; therefore the things I speak, I speak just as the Father has told Me." Is there anything more that could possibly be said that hasn't been said already? Take a look and let me know. God bless. Rowdy |
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393 | Question for Rowdy.... | Acts 2:38 | Rowdy | 133594 | ||
I'd like to think your statement would be conclusive except for verses like Mark 16:16 and Acts 2:38. No, my friend, I'm afraid the Bible is very clear on the matter. If a person wants to be certain of his salvation, at least as certain as he can be on this side of Judgment Day, then we have to follow ALL of God's Word. God bless. Rowdy |
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394 | Question for Rowdy.... | Acts 2:38 | Rowdy | 133597 | ||
Please believe me, dear friend Tim. I'm quite serious. The reason for my statement about the Bible not being quite clear is represented by the sum total of ALL of God's Word on this rather wide topic of what it takes to comply with God's commands and receive the Gift of Salvation on Judgment Day. That my friend is not quite so clear when our Lord does clearly say that His Words will Judge us on that Judgment Day. So the correct conclusion is try to make sense of it all and follow God's commands as best as we possibly can. Would you not agree this is our charge from God Almighty? This seems pretty clear to me. Looking forward to your response. God bless. Rowdy |
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395 | Question for Rowdy.... | Acts 2:38 | Rowdy | 133610 | ||
You keep on leaving out parts of the picture. With Abraham, remember He proved his faith to God when He told him offer his son as a sacrifice. Paul proved his devotion and commitment many times over, not the least of which included being baptized as cited Acts 9:18. James 2 deals with the works very thoroughly. Works are most certainly not to be considered part of the process but to be proofs of salvation after the fact. So baptism is not a work on our part; it's the Lord's working in us. Now that I've answered/responded to your points, how about taking a chop at answering/responding to my main point about believing or proving one's faith without any kind of proofs at all. Show a definite contrast between your belief and that of the devil's belief in God. I pray that God blesses you in your response. Rowdy |
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396 | Question for Rowdy.... | Acts 2:38 | Rowdy | 133611 | ||
You keep on leaving out parts of the picture. With Abraham, remember He proved his faith to God when He told him offer his son as a sacrifice. Paul proved his devotion and commitment many times over, not the least of which included being baptized as cited Acts 9:18. James 2 deals with the works very thoroughly. Works are most certainly not to be considered part of the process but to be proofs of salvation after the fact. So baptism is not a work on our part; it's the Lord's working in us. Now that I've answered/responded to your points, how about taking a chop at answering/responding to my main point about believing or proving one's faith without any kind of proofs at all. Show a definite contrast between your belief and that of the devil's belief in God. I pray that God blesses you in your response. Rowdy |
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397 | Baptism-What Does the Bible Teach? | Acts 2:38 | Rowdy | 133635 | ||
I'm very curious as to how you came to such a conclusion about Paul's position on baptism in light of the scriptures below. Rom 6:3 Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. 1 Cor 1:13 Has Christ been divided? Paul was not crucified for you, was he? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul? 14 I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, 15 so that no one would say you were baptized in my name. 16 Now I did baptize also the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I do not know whether I baptized any other. 17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not in cleverness of speech, so that the cross of Christ would not be made void. 1 Cor 10:2 and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 1 Cor 12:13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit. 1 Cor 15:29 Otherwise, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why then are they baptized for them? Gal 3:27 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. Eph 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism, Col 2:12 having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. I understand there are some controversies about this topic of baptism but it seems to me that Paul's being a strong advocate of baptism is NOT one of them. If by chance you're referring to Paul's position about the focus of his ministery as mentioned in 1 Cor 1:17, I think there's a simple explanation. Human beings have a tendancy to want to be baptized by someone famous. My own father was baptized by a christian preacher who had a show on television many years ago and is now dead. But people all over the world brag about being taught and/or baptized by a famous christian who perhaps is on television or has written a book of some sort. In the first century, obviously Paul was getting some of this same kind of notariety along with Apollos and Peter. Here Paul is trying to de-emphasize himself and promote Christ and His sacrifice on the cross instead. IMO, Paul recognized he had a big job to do, preach the Gospel throughout the whole world and a short time to do it in. So naturally he prioritized his life into preaching the Gospel and let others take care of details like baptizing those that wanted to become christians. I hope this helps clarify the issue. God bless. Rowdy |
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398 | Question for Rowdy.... | Acts 2:38 | Rowdy | 133651 | ||
His offer of Isaac as a sacrifice was merely one of the most supreme examples of his devotion and faith. His first such example or act of obedience was his getting out of his home country, leaving all his kinfolk behind him, that is with the exception of Lot, his nephew. I think I can confiently say that every child of God in all dispensations (Patriarchial, Jewish and Christian) all showed their faith with their own acts of obedience as you and I must do. Maybe you can find an exception but I should think that will be difficult to do. God bless you, dear friend. Rowdy |
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399 | Question for Rowdy.... | Acts 2:38 | Rowdy | 133652 | ||
In response, I can only quote the following verses as they sound pretty clear to me. Acts 2:38 Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Mark 16:16 "He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned. I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree but I'm willing to keep this as long as you wish. I'm just a vessel, a common pot in the hands of our Lord. Looking forward to your response and still praying for you. God bless. Rowdy |
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400 | Baptism-What Does the Bible Teach? | Acts 2:38 | Rowdy | 133837 | ||
"I would like to better understand your position. Are you saying that water baptism is a requirement of salvation, and that a person will be eternally damned if they are not water baptized?" In response to your question above, I can only quote just one of the scriptures that applies. Mark 16:16 "He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned. As I understand the scriptures here, the Lord is very clear. The word "and" is a conjuction which marries the two verbs "believe" and "be baptized." I realize not everyone endorses this interpretation but there are many millions throughout the world that do. I futher understand it's not a popular concept with the Forum or the Lockman Foundation as evidenced by the famous "Note to Viewers" hereunder. I can only quote from the scriptures and comply with their simple message. I would also re-introduce to you the verses below in what I call the Lord's principle of "better safe than sorry." Matt 5:29 "If your right eye makes you stumble, tear it out and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30 "If your right hand makes you stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to go into hell. I hope this helps in clarifying the issue. God bless. Rowdy |
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