Results 1741 - 1760 of 1928
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Results from: Notes Author: Reformer Joe Ordered by Verse |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1741 | Fallen 'Partakers of the Holy Spirit?' | Heb 6:6 | Reformer Joe | 34803 | ||
Perhaps if you could cite some of his argument about WHY he still held to perseverance of the saints, we could all examine what (besides his cigers) which led him to that conclusion. You are only giving us half the story, after all. --Joe! |
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1742 | If you are saved can you lose it | Heb 6:6 | Reformer Joe | 75614 | ||
"Can you ignore Hebrews chapter 6?" No you can't. "Remember, Hebrews was written to Christians." It was written to church(es), made up of both genuine believers and covenant-breakers. Just like in our churches today, there are individuals who are church members but not regenerate. They sit under the same preaching, partake of the Lord's Table, bow their heads when everyone else does, but their outward actions and outward participation are faithless. People DO fall away. It is not hypothetical. But who are these people, and what do they fall away from? --Joe! |
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1743 | If you are saved can you lose it | Heb 6:6 | Reformer Joe | 75621 | ||
"Do you really have any question of who these people were or what they fell away from?" No, I don't. --Joe! |
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1744 | If you are saved can you lose it | Heb 6:6 | Reformer Joe | 75709 | ||
Exactly. However, does tasting the heavenly gift mean being regenerate? We could look at lots of examples in Scripture where people had the advantage of living among God's people but were not God's people. Perhaps the most striking example we see are the Pharisees in the first century. Romans 2 and Romans 9 and Philippians 3 list some of the blessings that belonged to the Pharisees as part of God's covenant people. However, Jesus refers to them as blind guides and hypocrites and vipers and children of the devil and of hell. They definitely heard of God's goodness in the Law and the Prophets, were circumcised, partook of the Passover and the other feasts. But they still were not really of God. As Romans 9 puts it, all are not Israel who are descended from Israel. I believe that the parallel situation in the church is what the writer of Hebrews refers to. We have to admit that there are people in the most faithful, Christ-exalting churches who hear the word preached week after week, bow their heads when everyone else does, get baptized, and partake of the Lord's Table, but who do not have faith nor do these things in that faith. When severe trial and temptation come along, they are gone. This makes sense to me for a number of reasons. First of all, it fits perfectly with the numerous passages which suggest that the believer is secure because God has transformed him into something new and keeps him. Secondly, it supports the biblical truth that faith without works is dead, that a true faith brings forth a faithful life. Thirdly, the Hebrews being addressed in the epistle were very familiar with the concept of the covenant, a concept largely understood and ignored by 21st-century Gentile believers. Being "cut off" had a very specific and earthly connotation for the Israelite, and it pointed to a spiritual truth as well about the state of their souls. --Joe! |
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1745 | If you are saved can you lose it | Heb 6:6 | Reformer Joe | 75710 | ||
Oops...I meant the idea of "covenant" is MISUNDERSTOOD by Gentile Christians! :) --Joe! |
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1746 | disciplerami, it is impossible (Heb 6:6) | Heb 6:6 | Reformer Joe | 75782 | ||
"So WHILE they crucify Him, it is impossible. If they quit crucifying Him, then it is no longer impossible to renew them again to repentance." I can honestly say that this is the first time I have ever heard of such an interpretation of this text. What does it mean that they were "crucifying Christ to themselves," according to your interpretation? How does someone who has fallen away stop crucifying Christ to themselves? And how is this any type of dire warning if what the writer was "really saying" is that salvation is a revolving door, that we can be born again and again and again and again? That seems to fly right in the face of the verses in their context. Where did you get the word "WHILE" from the text? Thanks! --Joe! |
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1747 | disciplerami, it is impossible (Heb 6:6) | Heb 6:6 | Reformer Joe | 75785 | ||
Thanks for the explanation, Tim. It seems that taking such an approach weakens the warning somewhat, and also seems to make the statement somewhat illogical in my view. Since repentance is the disposition of rejecting sin and relying on Christ, saying that as long as one is unrepentant that he cannot be brought back to repentance doesn't make much sense. The conclusion the would be that once he repents he can be brought back to repentance. That's like saying if I lock myself out of my house, I cannot go back in until I go in and get the key. When you pair this warning up with its companion in Hebrews 10 ("there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins"), it seems even less likely to me that the epistle writer is describing a revolving door for those who have "fallen away." You wrote: "Here I thought you read ALL of my posts! ;-)" I do read most of them, but I am still working on committing them to memory. :) --Joe! |
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1748 | Can we worship outside of our community? | Heb 10:25 | Reformer Joe | 29668 | ||
Oh, you are absolutely right in that case! One should worship in a God-centeres, biblically-functioning church where the whole counsel of God is preached, baptism and the Lord's Supper are observed, and where there is church discipline according to the model established by the apostles (i.e. rule by a plurality of elders). I would drive 60 miles every Sunday to find one if there were not one in my community. If such a church does exist in your area that fits those criteria, however, I do think that it is advantageous to attend there rather than travelling large distances. I live in Dallas, so one could define community here in a much larger way than you might do so. In any case, worshiping in a biblically functioning church nearby means that most of the fellow congregants will be your neighbors, more or less, contributing to the idea of a 7-day-a-week Christian community. It is also much easer to spearhead evangelistic and community outreach efforts to that community if all of itse members are not "outsiders." That is why I would not, in most circumstances, travel to another city to attend a church if a God-honoring one were nearby. But, again, that's just me... --Joe! |
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1749 | What sort of judgment is this? | Heb 10:26 | Reformer Joe | 63505 | ||
You wrote: 'Notice the portion I highlighted between *s. "by which he was sanctified." Unbelievers are not sanctified.' Depends what you mean by "sanctified." If the passage is talking about the Holy Spirit's progressive work in the life of the child of God, I agree. However, to be sanctified means to be "set apart" as well. I come from a biblical understanding that the visible church is the covenant people of God. The visible church contains all professing believers and their children. However, not all professing believers (i.e. those in the visible church) are indeed truly regenerate. Every descendant of Jacob was a member of the Mosaic Covenant, but not every Israelite was a covenant keeper. Many showed themselves to be not God's people by being a covenant breaker. The author of Hebrews alludes to them in Hebrews 10:28, and Paul refers to them in Romans 9 when he says that "For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel." These are people who were set apart by the covenant ("sanctified"), but who showed themselves to be enemies of God by rejecting the Messiah. Likewise, everyone in the visible church could be said to have been "set apart." Baptism is the initiatory rite into the visible church, but I think that you and I would both agree that not everyone who has been "sanctified" outwardly is indeed a child of God. Jesus himself spoke of "wheat and tares" in Matthew 13, spoke of false brethren in Matthew 7, and 1 John 2 indicates that there were people departing from the visible church because "they were never of us." Therefore, the grammatical question regarding Hebrews 10:29 would be whether it is the BLOOD that sanctifies them or the COVENANT that sanctifies them. Because not all who are visibly sanctified within the context of the New Covenant are truly of the invisible communion of saints. Let me know what you think. Also, what about the contrast in verse 39? You didn't respond to that in your last post. Thanks! --Joe! |
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1750 | Operate on faith or endure? | Heb 11:1 | Reformer Joe | 67467 | ||
" I believe that once you have renewed your mind in a particular area (I say particular area because right now I believe renewing our minds is a lifetime process)" I agree that the renewal of your mind is a liftime process, but why do you seem to state that Romans 12:2 is talking about us renewing our own minds? I hold the view that by not conforming to this world (the opposite road to mind-renewal), the Spirit works through our study of God's revealed will (i.e. the Bible) to renew our minds. In Christian terms, the preaching and study of the word is a "means of grace," an avenue by which the Holy Spirit works to renew our minds Himself. "then you can 1. prove what is that good, acceptable and perfect will of God 2. ask according to His will" Again, I agree. However, why do you hold the will in Romans 12:2 to be anything but God's revealed will in Scripture? --Joe! |
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1751 | Operate on faith or endure? | Heb 11:1 | Reformer Joe | 67473 | ||
Great. If this is what you believe, then we are on the same page! --Joe! |
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1752 | How were ppl saved before Jesus came? | Heb 11:6 | Reformer Joe | 49228 | ||
You wrote: 'Salvation is not being forgiven, salvation is being "born again" of the Spirit of God - John 3:3-6. Salvation is the impartation of eternal life, not forgiveness of sins. A forgiven dead man is still just as dead. What we who were born dead and trespasses and sins need is life! His life!' Justification (being declared right before God) is not the sum total of what the Bible puts under the umbrella of salvation, but it is an essential part of it. Without Christ's substitutionary death, we would have no peace with God (Romans 5:1). Only in and through our Great High Priest is atonement made for our sins. Christ's righteousness is imputed to us, but the penalty of sin being dealt with is an absolute essential as well. Without forgiveness through the shedding of the blood of the righteous Lamb of God, God's wrath remains upon us. --Joe! |
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1753 | How many local churches have you tried? | Heb 11:8 | Reformer Joe | 29348 | ||
Just out of curiosity, what was "God's clear call" for you to leave the church you had been attending? --Joe! |
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1754 | How many local churches have you tried? | Heb 11:8 | Reformer Joe | 29368 | ||
Brian: You wrote: "How do you feel a local church can satisfy both, those needing milk, as well as those needing solid food?" That is the kind of question local congregations should be asking. One way that our church does it is by means of intro classes for prospective members, which basically delineate the basics of the evangelical Christian faith along with the distinctives of the Christian tradition to which it belongs. To become a member, one must only subscribe to the evangelical distinctives and have received a Trinitarian baptism (which will be administered to those who have not yet been baptized). Sunday school classes can go a long way in meeting this need for recent converts or those who have simply never looked beyond the basics of their faith. Catechism is another good method for accomplishing this goal. Our church employs the Westminster Shorter and Larger Catechisms as instructional tools, and they benefit children, new converts, and mature believers alike in teaching and re-affirming the central doctrines of the Christian faith. The sermons preached every Sunday can serve this purpose as well to some extent, but I find it is much better to feed the flock with solid food rather than serve mush just in case there are any non-Christians in attendance. Our ministers do a very good job of both challenging mature, knowledgeable Christians and explaining theological truth as well. And let's face it: a lot of the "new stuff" we learn as believers generally spin out from the very basics of the gospel in any case. It is merely deeper exploration of the many facets of God's redemptive work in human history. In any case, it would do churches well to remember that the church is primarily for BELIEVERS. While the services should absolutely welcome visitors who may or may not be Christians, the service should not "target" them. There are undoubtedly the unregenerate in just about any church today, and ministers should make note of that as they preach law and gospel in every message. Both serve the believer and unbeliever alike. For Christians, the law demonstrates God's holy standards for our lives, and the gospel reminds us of how God both has provided satisfaction for those requirements and as well as His Spirit so that we will in thought, word, and deed approach a more holy life in keeping with that law. For non-Christians, law demonstrates their own inability to attain the righteousness of God, and gospel points out to them that the only way we will be able to stand before God is if we are clothed in the righteousness of Christ. So law and gospel, in the same message, is sufficient both for evangelism and training in righteousness. The elders of a church, however, should make every effort to see that true Christian education in the faith is taking place for all who affiliate themselves with the church, at whatever level they are. --Joe! |
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1755 | Prayer for Persecuted Church! | Heb 13:3 | Reformer Joe | 66526 | ||
This week, remember to be in prayer with and for our brothers and sisters around the world who are being persecuted for the cause of Jesus Christ. http://www.idop.org --Joe! |
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1756 | jesus born prior to earth? | Heb 13:8 | Reformer Joe | 35532 | ||
You seem to hold that the Incarnation somehow changed Jesus' divine nature. The historic Christian understanding is that at the Incarnation, God the Son took on a second nature. He has always been God, and from the Incarnation he is also man. As the Westminster Shorter Catechism puts it, he "was, and continueth to be, God and man in two distict natures, and one person, for ever." The incarnate Jesus is not a separate entity from the eternal Son of God which participated in creation, so it is perfectly fair to say that he has always existed. His humanity has a beginning, but He does not. --Joe! |
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1757 | jesus born prior to earth? | Heb 13:8 | Reformer Joe | 35540 | ||
Nothing, just trying to be precise! The Son of God did pre-exist, just not His humanity. This is what Hank believes, and it seems as if you do, too. In any case, Jesus himself attests to His pre-existence at the same time he attests to His deity, so I don't think the term is out of line at all: 'Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am."' --John 8:58 --Joe! |
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1758 | jesus born prior to earth? | Heb 13:8 | Reformer Joe | 35613 | ||
RElderCascade is correct. :) So I guess you are not a Mormon "elder," then! --Joe! |
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1759 | jesus born prior to earth? | Heb 13:8 | Reformer Joe | 35889 | ||
What a great forum tactic! Just cram a bunch of rambling fragments and incomplete thoughts together, ignoring the rules of English syntax and punctuation, giving your opponent no logical starting point to even begin to comment on what you have attempted to point out! I must try that some day. Then I can say, "See, there was nary a word in response to my thological treatise!" Please, JM, give us sentences and paragraphs so that we can actually communicate with one another! --Joe! P.S. You wrote: "what is sound teaching...reading the bible and coming away with your own understanding" That is 100 percent false. |
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1760 | Moral, Ceremonial, and Civil law | James 2:10 | Reformer Joe | 19250 | ||
Bill: Please address the point I made, rather than arguing against points I am not making. To put it in the plainest terms possible: 1. I am not, nor was I EVER under the Mosaic Covenant. I am an uncircumcised Gentile (Romans 2:9-16) 2. I am not seeking righteousness of my own from the Law, because that is an impossibility (Philippians 3:9). 3. The righteousness by which I am saved is Christ's imputed to me, not my own. 4. The moral commandments of God, including the Decalogue, are quoted either verbatim or in essence by most of the writers of the New Testament epistles as instructions for BELIEVERS. Was Paul sinning by telling the children of Ephesus to follow the Fifth Commandment (Ephesians 6:1-3)? 5. Therefore, while my salvation was earned for me by Christ, we were saved primarily for God's glory. James 2 and most of 1 John clearly demonstrate that those who are not desiring to obey Christ may not even be saved at all, not because they must work for salvation, but rather because a complete lack of works points to a complete lack of true faith. 5. Therefore, we are not to be slaves to sin, but slaves to righteousness, not to earn our salvation, but because the Bible clearly shows that that is what saved people do (Romans 6:16-20). If I am in error here, please take the passages of Scripture I have cited and explain where I am in error in interpreting them. With all due respect, Bill, you are arguing against positions I do not hold to myself. I am not a legalist. There is no way for me to earn my salvation. However, I am also not an antinomian, who believes that there is no connection between true faith and desiring to obey God's moral commandments, which are all over both Testaments. If you insist that the Ten Commandments are not for today at all, then you have yet to explain why Paul and James and John and Peter tell their addressees to do the things found in them. That's the bottom line. --Joe! |
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