Results 341 - 360 of 1928
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Results from: Notes Author: Reformer Joe Ordered by Date |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
341 | predestined? | John 3:16 | Reformer Joe | 75144 | ||
Hey, Tim: "The word 'foreknew' in Rom. 8:29 only occurs twice in the New Testament. Here in Rom. 8:29 and in Rom. 11:2. In Rom. 11:2, it clearly refers to Israel." But, of course, use of the same verb does not mean its direct object is the same... :) "Thus, I believe that Rom. 8:29 is a reference to God's plan for Israel, not for each individual. In other words, Israel has been predestined, but not each individual." Then do you hold that Romans 8:28 does not have Gentiles in view, either? If not, why not? Romans 8 apparently has all of God's people in view. There would need to be a more compelling reason why Romans 8:29-30 would apply only to Israel, while Romans 8:1-28,31-39 applies to all believers. "This view fits the context of Rom. 9-11 as well, since the subject of these chapters is the relationship between Israel and Gentiles as it relates to the Gospel." But Romans 8:29 doesn't fall within those chapters, and it seems plain (to me) that the discussion of Israel and their relationship to election doesn't begin until Romans 9:1. And that whole argument is in answer to the question, "What about Israel?" In other words, if all of the preceding things in Romans 1-8 about justification coming only through faith in Christ, what are we to conclude about the "chosen people" of God, most of whom were rejecting the Messiah? Paul sums it up very concisely when he asserts that "It is not as if the word of God has failed" (i.e. God did not lie and exclude Israel from the New Covenant). If Romans 8:29-30 is about Israel alone, then why would Paul need to then spend three chapters addressing the issue of apostate Israel? Cheers! --Joe! |
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342 | predestined? | John 3:16 | Reformer Joe | 75142 | ||
"From G4253 and G1097; to know beforehand, that is, foresee: - foreknow (ordain), know (before)." What is the direct object of "foreknew" in Romans 8:29? In other words, according to the text, what (or WHO) was foreknown? --Joe! |
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343 | predestined? | John 3:16 | Reformer Joe | 75040 | ||
Welcome to the Forum! --Joe! |
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344 | Who, besides the elect of God,are saved? | Rom 10:9 | Reformer Joe | 74970 | ||
What in the world are you talking about now? | ||||||
345 | Who, besides the elect of God,are saved? | Rom 10:9 | Reformer Joe | 74965 | ||
'No I did not miss it but when I mentioned it you accused me of “mud slinging”.' I did? Where? In any case, if I had already responded to your question, why did you ask it again?!? "Joe your slick and your whole tactic since your point can’t be proven is to make your opponent appear stupid, malicious or vindictive." I am not slick. I am precise. I do not post things haphazardly or make inaccurate statements about verifiable facts of history. That way I do not have to be corrected as often by others. And on those occasions when I have made such errors, I do not try and paint my opponent as "slick" for correcting them rather than admit when I am wrong. "Please don’t insult me or intelligence of others on this forum by piously telling me to examine the motive of my heart. Let him without sin cast the first stone." Stones? What stones? Surely you as a minister do not think that you are beyond correction and rebuke by your fellow Christians. "But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that BY THE MOUTH OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES EVERY FACT MAY BE CONFIRMED. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector." --Matthew 18:16-17 "When I mention Calvin's history which you don't anyone to know you tell me I disparaging the man. Yet you freely give Durant's history as a service." You were wrong about the facts. Wrong. I am not even talking about Calvin's motives. I am talking about when he lived in relation to Luther, what he studied, the nature of classical scholarship during the Renaissance, etc. Forget about motives. You have got the FACTS wrong, demonstrating that you are speaking from a position of error. Durant's secularist position with regard to all things Christian had nothing to do with our exchange, so why do you bring it up? Who is trying to cloud the issue here? "This is the Bible Study forum, not the forum to study Calvin’s hypothesis or any other doctrine of man." And, as I said before, I promise to stop correcting your errors of fact as soon as you stop making them. John has already pointed out to you in the last couple of days how you misunderstand the doctrine, using a long series of quotes from you misrepresenting the Reformed position. You imply the most ridiculous things like "Calvinism leads to ordaining homosexuals" and expect silent agreement? You defend the words of a historian who, in the very same work that was quoted, insists that Christian doctrine was stolen from Middle Eastern paganism, and think that your position is safeguarded by such a man? You refer to me as just "being slick" and "trying to make you look stupid," yet you cannot point to a single instance in which I have misrepresented what you have said in order to accomplish my fiendish plot. Again, who needs to examine his words and his honesty and his motive? --Joe! |
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346 | Who, besides the elect of God,are saved? | Rom 10:9 | Reformer Joe | 74958 | ||
"The facts are it is mostly Calvinist that stand in the camps of homosexuals, abortionist, and winking at divorce." This is, hands down, the most foolish sentence you have ever submitted to the Forum. Ed, just please stop. You are embarassing yourself, and doing so very publicly. Putting one's ignorance on a subject on worldwide display, especially after having your misconceptions and errors clearly explained to you, is so far from wisdom that I cannot believe that someone who holds a position in an academic setting would ever stoop to what you are doing here. We are held accountable by God for the things we say. For you to have said it once makes you mistaken. To continue to repeat the same statement after having been shown how the wing of the PCUSA you describe has ABANDONED not only Calvinism, but Scripture itself as a rule of faith and practice, makes you a slanderer and a false witness. How do you explain the liberal tendencies within the Southern Baptist Church? The United Methodist Church? Did Calvinism somehow work its evil roots into Wesley's denomination? Good grief, Ed! Please remove your foot from your mouth and stop dishonoring the name of Jesus Christ by your smear tactics. --Joe! |
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347 | Who, besides the elect of God,are saved? | Rom 10:9 | Reformer Joe | 74923 | ||
Be glad to. First of all, the initials make a lot of difference. This is what I mean by the need to be precise. There is a world of difference, theologically speaking, between the PCUSA (the denomination you were referring to) and the Presbyterian Church in America, a completely separate denomination which was founded in 1973 as an answer to the liberal influences you mentioned. This denomination, of which I am a member, is adherent to the Reformed confessions of the English Puritans and the theology of the Reformation. While there are both liberal and good churches within the PCUSA, the PCA as a whole does not ordain homosexuals, promote "a woman's right to choose," blink at divorce, or any of those other things you depicted as being fruits of Calvinism. Unlike the PCUSA, the PCA is a growing denomination, with thriving North American and foreign missions. We hold to sola Scriptura as an inflexible standard of our church. In addition, there are other Reformed denominations in the United States, such as the Associate Reformed Presbyterian Church, Korean-American Presbyterian Church, Orthodox Presbyterian Church, Reformed Church in the U.S., Reformed Presbyterian Church of North America, and the United Reformed Churches of North America. In addition, there are many other denominations with Reformed congregations. Many Baptist churches, for example, are Reformed (the president of Southern Baptist Theological Seminary is himself a 5-pointer, and was responsible for conservatizing what had become a very, very liberal academic institution). Of course, many independent congregations teach many of the distinctives of Reformed theology as well (Alistair Begg's Parkside Church and John MacArthur's church are examples of those). The fact is that one cannot be a good, traditional Calvinist and endorse those sins you previously mentioned. Once more, it is important to be careful in one's debating to avoid bearing false witness. --Joe! |
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348 | Who, besides the elect of God,are saved? | Rom 10:9 | Reformer Joe | 74912 | ||
"Joe are you going to deny that within the Calvinistic ranks there aren't those that take the approach (rightly or wrongly) that since it is all predestined there is not much use in evangelism?" Did you miss my earlier post? I acknowledged that people do indeed (wrongly) take elements of Reformed theology and justify disobedience to Christ. Reformed theology as a whole mitigates against such a life, but some take the parts they like to support inactive spiritual lives. I also mentioned that an Arminian can (wrongly) decide not to evangelize the "hard cases" because of an assumption that such individuals will never willingly come to the cross. Are there not Arminians like that? Would you consider the possibility of such misinterpretation a reason for abandoning what you consider to be biblical? Assuming your answer is "no," why should I reject what I consider to be biblical just because some people might twist it and use it as an excuse for disobedience? "If I use scripture you complain I'm proof texting..." Example? "...interpreting wrong or just too stupid to understand." Show me once where I have referred to you as "stupid." What I HAVE said is that you often do not speak from authority on a particular subject. When you say that Luther didn't hold to predestination or that there were 100 years between Luther and Calvin or that the PCUSA is an example of the result of adhering to the theology of the Reformation or that Calvinism inevitable leads to the death of evangelism, you simply show yourself to be wrong. Not stupid, but definitely wrong --as wrong as if you had posted that 2 plus 2 is 71. I would never call you stupid, but I would definitely encourage you to get your facts right before recklessly posting the anti-Calvinist propaganda. "When I give you scripture you change the meaning and say the words don't really mean what they say." When have I done this? "If I complain about the doctrine I have to be disparaging a saint." No, it is when you are disparaging the saints that I do call you out on the carpet. Criticize Calvinism all you wish from a Scriptural point of view, but saying that I hold to blasphemy (along with the list of saints you still haven't touched with a ten-foot pole) is not doctrinal critique, but uncivil invective. " If I examine the saint I'm character assassinating." Examining the saint? Is that what you call what you have been saying about Calvin and Calvinists in the past couple of days? What if I said the same things of you that you have said of Reformed individuals the last couple of days. Honestly, go back and take a look! "And short of remaining silent and letting you prattle on nothing has worked." Prattling? Yes, truly a saintly "examination"... Please go back up the thread and see where I "stepped in" to this conversation. What prompted me to do so? Take a step back and seriously examine your own motives and your own heart and your own words, Ed. Do they glorify Jesus Christ? --Joe! |
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349 | Who, besides the elect of God,are saved? | Rom 10:9 | Reformer Joe | 74893 | ||
"If I say anything you will come back and accuse me of character assassination, as you have in the past. Besides the thread is thankfully restricted and there is no need to defend against this convolution of scripture." You have already called Calvinism "blasphemy," which makes me and every other Calvinist saint in church history a "blasphemer" as a result. The character assasination and maligning of one's brothers in Christ has already been done. I merely wanted to point you once again to the illogical conclusions of throwing inappropriate words around. You complain about how Calvinism kills thriving Christian ministries, and yet you have provided not a single example of this happening. You complain about the ineffectiveness that Calvinism inspires, yet when I bring up a list of prominent, productive, and effective saints who are Calvinists, you have failed to apply your accusations to them. Who is really the one on a smear campaign here, Ed? We were talking about Scripture? It has been a long time since I have seen you include one in your posts. You will never succeed in your anti-Calvinist tirade, so why don't you resolve to live peaceably with those of us who will indeed be inhabiting heaven with you rather than condemning us as blasphemers? --Joe! |
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350 | Who, besides the elect of God,are saved? | Rom 10:9 | Reformer Joe | 74892 | ||
If you are talking about the Presbyterian Church U.S.A., they have not only largely abandoned Calvinism, but has largely abandoned Scripture as an infallibe standard for faith and practice. The apostasy of many PCUSA churches comes from the influence of liberalism in the nineteenth century, and many, many PCUSA members and pastors would applaud your attacking Reformation theology the way you are. In other words, those homosexual, aborting, divorcing members of that denomination are on YOUR side on this one. Blaming Calvin for the liberalism of the PCUSA is as foolish as blaming the liberal tendencies within the United Methodist Church on John Wesley. Perhaps it is time for you to stop "proclaiming the truth," because frankly your keystrokes are outpacing your knowledge. If you think that the PCUSA by and large is a bastion of 5-point Calvinism, then you really do need to do your homework better! Now if you want to pour more gasoline on the fire by continuing to post factual error, then be my guest. Just don't go crying "abuse" when you are shown to not know what you are talking about. --Joe! |
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351 | Who, besides the elect of God,are saved? | Rom 10:9 | Reformer Joe | 74890 | ||
"If he was deaf how can he be faulted of not hearing it?" Because his "deafness" (or often "blindness") is a sympptom and result of his sinful nature. Matthew 23:19-26. John 9:39. "So then we become guilty of ignorance not sin." No one is ignorant, but rather sinful man supresses the truth. Romans 1:18 ff. Not having ears to hear is more a moral inability to receive what is said than an inability to actually hear the content of the gospel. Humanity made itself "deaf." It is up to God to give people their hearing back. --Joe! |
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352 | Who, besides the elect of God,are saved? | Rom 10:9 | Reformer Joe | 74877 | ||
"No I don't enjoy this, I do it because I can/will not let this blasphemous doctrine go unchallenged." I would be very careful about throwing the word "blasphemy" around. Are/were John Newton, John Bunyan, Francis Schaeffer, Isaac Watts, Matthew Henry, John MacArthur, J.C. Ryle, Charles Spurgeon, George Whitfield, William Wilberforce, William Carey, Adoniram Judson, and so many others "blasphemers"? This is not a rhetorical question, so I would appreciate a forthright answer. --Joe! |
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353 | Who, besides the elect of God,are saved? | Rom 10:9 | Reformer Joe | 74876 | ||
"I have seen to many lives destroyed by it." Give me some examples. "Look at the mess the denomination is in that holds to this deception." Which denomination are you referring to here? --Joe! |
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354 | Who, besides the elect of God,are saved? | Rom 10:9 | Reformer Joe | 74868 | ||
Why would you quote Durant as an authority on anything theological? He clearly portrayed himself in his writings to be what John MacArthur (someone whose teaching ministry you have respected in the past, despite him being one of "my kind") would unreservedly refer to as a "Christ-hater." By all the available evidence he himself provided, Durant will be facing nothing but God's wrath for all eternity. So why would you ever consider him an authority on any saint of God? Secondly, do you not see how you posting this quote is divisive in itself? "If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man's religion is worthless." --James 1:26 --Joe! |
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355 | how to be saved | Rom 10:9 | Reformer Joe | 74856 | ||
Many (both Calvinists and Arminians) will search for excuses to justify disobeying God. Taking one aspect of the truth and ignoring or rejecting everything else does not make one a disciple of Jesus Christ. One could turn around and say that many Arminians do not evangelize certain people (i.e. those who seem the farthest away from righteousness) because "they would never receive Jesus Christ." I am sure you are as critical of such attitudes as I am of those who misuse Reformed theology as an excuse for inaction. You didn't answer my question, however. What "gung-ho" Christians are you aware of that become "do-nothing" Christians as a result of embracing Reformation theology? And how do you explain the exemplary lives of the Calvinists I mentioned in my last post, those who obey(ed) the Great Commission not IN SPITE OF their Reformed beliefs, but rather BECAUSE OF them? Thanks! --Joe! |
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356 | Who, besides the elect of God,are saved? | Rom 10:9 | Reformer Joe | 74855 | ||
"If man is deaf why bother talking to them? Why didn't Jesus say to the one thief you haven't been elected so your damne, I'm talking to your partner." You can ask Him when you see Him. He didn't explain Himself in that particular instance. One thing it does is bring about greater judgment for rejecting more clear revelation. In our case, of course, we don't know who "has ears to hear" and who doesn't. --Joe! |
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357 | Who, besides the elect of God,are saved? | Rom 10:9 | Reformer Joe | 74816 | ||
"I have heard gibberish make more sense. God won’t let you go to damnation without warning you but you won’t hear unless God elects you to listen. In effect God’s talking to those he made deaf." Humanity "made itself deaf." Romans 1:18 ff. --Joe! |
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358 | how to be saved | Rom 10:9 | Reformer Joe | 74815 | ||
"Perhaps you will take the time to enlighten me as to when the thief on the cross was schooled in theology and taught the Gospel. Yet the Lord said this day you will be with Me in paradise." The gospel was made known to the thief. Here is the exchange, and keep in mind they are dying on crosses as they are speaking: 'But the other answered, and rebuking him said, "Do you not even fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation? And we indeed are suffering justly, for we are receiving what we deserve for our deeds; but this man has done nothing wrong." And he was saying, "Jesus, remember me when You come in Your kingdom!"' --Luke 23:40-42 He knew of Jesus' sinlessness, and the fact that Jesus was coming into His kingdom even as His life was slipping away. Seems that in some ways the thief grasped the gospel better than some of the Twelve did. He didn't go to seminary, but the Holy Spirit did His work in the thief. You wrote: "Man can understand the sin in his life and the need for salvation. He can be shown that Jesus died for his sins and that by believing in Jesus for his salvation he will not perish." The Bible says: "For to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God....But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised." --1 Corinthians 2:10, 14 A person can be SHOWN something, but that is different than saying someone receives it as personal truth. People can even recognize the gospel without embracing it (James 2:19). I know plenty of people who can explain the gospel back to me quite well but who reject it either as truth or as something they do not want. And it is the personal trust in Christ by faith that is the result of the Spirit's work. You wrote: "Who besides the elect of God are saved? As the name implies no one, once you are saved your become God's elect." So your answer to John's question is "no one"? Please correct me if I have misunderstood. You wrote: "Your whole premise of election is so nonsensical it would be humorous if it weren’t for the fact that there are those that believe it and stop having a productive life in Christ." Ed, would you mind sharing for me exactly who these people are? Believing it certainly didn't slow down the Puritans or William Carey or John Newton or William Wilberforce or Adoniram Judson or Jonathan Edwards or Charles Spurgeon or Francis Schaeffer or John MacArthur (or Reformer Joe, for that matter). Who are all of these once-productive individuals shipwrecked by a CLEAR understanding of Reformation theology? Thanks! --Joe! |
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359 | Explain this to me | Matt 27:3 | Reformer Joe | 74622 | ||
Okay...keep imagining what you will! :) --Joe! |
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360 | Was Calvin just a slick lawyer? | Matt 27:3 | Reformer Joe | 74620 | ||
Again, good quotes, but none of them substantiate the claims you were making. Calvin was trained in logic (gasp!). Logical reasoning is a GOOD thing. He did attend law school, but abandoned any prospects of a career in law after his father died (and therefore never was a lawyer, as I had said). He was a good orator (again, as a pastor, don't you think that is a plus?). Where is the manipulation, the being hired by others to legally prosecute the Protestant cause, and the lack of pursuit of God's truth? I fail to see any of that here. "Perhaps you would be so kind to supply information to where Calvin studied Hebrew and Greek. Where he study theology and under what teaching was he trained in exegesis." http://www.hfac.uh.edu/gbrown/philosophers/leibniz/BritannicaPages/Calvin/Calvin.html Now perhaps we can stop the character assasinations of those saints to whom you owe a great deal of your spiritual heritage and get back to discussing the BIBLE. --Joe! |
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