Results 261 - 280 of 1928
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Results from: Notes Author: Reformer Joe Ordered by Date |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
261 | What exactly must a person to be saved? | Bible general Archive 1 | Reformer Joe | 79615 | ||
"You misunderstand. A Christian is known because of his actions. So obvious is that." And actions are works, are they not? "Does God save me before I do a work? Yes." Absolutely true. "Is salvation from first to last day by faith alone? Yes." Again, I agree. "Abraham got righteousness by faith alone. Where are the works there?" Resulting from his saving faith: "By faith Abraham, when he was called, obeyed by going out to a place which he was to receive for an inheritance; and he went out, not knowing where he was going. By faith he lived as an alien in the land of promise, as in a foreign land, dwelling in tents with Isaac and Jacob, fellow heirs of the same promise; for he was looking for the city which has foundations, whose architect " --Hebrews 11:8-10 "Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar? You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected; and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, "AND ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS," and he was called the friend of God." --James 2:21-23 "I think you are misunderstanding and caught." How so? "If I did the work then the glory would be to me." With all due respect, are we having a conversation here or not. This is StudyBibleForum.com, where we discuss the Bible. I have presented several passages which show that while God works in us, we do indeed do the works. You have not addressed a single one of those passages to show me how I am "misunderstanding and caught," whatever that means. --Joe! |
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262 | What exactly must a person to be saved? | Bible general Archive 1 | Reformer Joe | 79577 | ||
"You like to mention what God does and leave out the Philippians 2:13 which proves my point." The sentence which contains Philippians 2:13 begins in the previous verse. What does that verse say? To ignore the first half of Paul's comment is just as wrong as ignoring the second half. "About the works you like to emphasize..." Me, or the New Testament? You still haven't explained how you fit God telling Christians to do things (not merely to believe things, but to outwardly demonstrate that belief) into your theology. "God does them and not man." Really. So Paul is telling God to love my wife as Christ loved the church, and he commands God to abstain from sexual immorality, and Peter tells God to make my calling and election sure, and Peter tells God to live in subjection to the earthly authorities? God certainly gives the strength and accomplishes the sanctification, but Christians are active partners in the endeavor, just as Paul laid it out: "For this purpose also I labor, striving according to His power, which mightily works within me." --Colossians 1:29 Who labors? Who strives? Paul. From Whom does the power come? God. "If they come, they come because God does them." Scriptural support for this? "No sense trying to do them." So when God tells me to refrain from sexual immorality, there is no sense in me trying to do that? You don't really pattern your life after taking God's commandments as meaningless, do you? "If they don't come then God didn't elect that person." Well, I agree with that, but that doesn't mean at all that God is obeying Himself in my life. What you do seem to be saying is that the works are the primary evidence of salvation, which is my point entirely. "Because the word obey means believe and God gives me the belief." Where do you get the idea that "obey" merely means "believe"? "People talk about works and baptism but you have to admit if they don't do them then God didn't want them done." Why do I have to admit that? Scripture does not teach that he is indifferent about our disobedience. And lest we forget, the command to be baptized came "after the Cross." You wrote: "He only cares about faith which He gives as a gift." The Bible teaches: "For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith WORKING through love." --Galatians 5:6 Sanctification is a work of God's free grace, but it most certainly involves the obedience that God brings about but that WE do. "But emphasizing passages about obedience puts pressure on me to do, then where is the glory to God?" In your faithful obedience to Him. God is not glorified by do-nothing "believers." Do you think that lazy, pew-sitting, disobedient churchgoers display God's glory? How is God glorified if we do not do anything? Did the apostles glorify God by inaction? "That's all I can write." I wish you would write, specifically addressing some of the Scriptures I have brought up. If you are right, you have to reasonably integrate the passages I have brought up into your works-less worldview. We can't pick and choose the parts of the Bible we are going to cling to. --Joe! |
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263 | What exactly must a person to be saved? | Bible general Archive 1 | Reformer Joe | 79562 | ||
"Oh, I thought before the Cross was Old Testament." To be technical about it, Jesus instituted the New Covenant at the Last Supper. "But maybe you know something else. Hebrews 9 shows the Old in force until the Cross." It shows that the system of sacrifices was still in force, but as the epistle clearly teaches elsewhere: "For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins." --Hebrews 10:4 No one has ever been saved by keeping the Law, because no one has ever kept it to the extent that God requires (with the exception of Christ, of course). Likewise, slitting Lambchop's throat at the temple in itself did not save anyone, but rather prefigured the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world. The Savior of the Old Testament saints was not grazing out back with the rest of the flock. He was in heaven waiting for the appointed time to become a man and die for the sins of all of God's people of all ages. You wrote: "About the ruler, he wanted to go to heaven but walked away sad. Was that because he did not obey Jesus?" The Bible says: 'Jesus said to him, "If you wish to be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me." But when the young man heard this statement, he went away grieving; for he was one who owned much property.' --Matthew 19:21-22 You wrote: "You quote passages of works and shouldn't." Why not? Am I mistaken that the writers of the New Testament command believers to DO things in light of their new nature? "I want you to be careful not to emphasize works." You mean like Paul does? "For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them." --Ephesians 2:10 "But have nothing to do with worldly fables fit only for old women. On the other hand, discipline yourself for the purpose of godliness; for bodily discipline is only of little profit, but godliness is profitable for all things, since it holds promise for the present life and also for the life to come. It is a trustworthy statement deserving full acceptance. For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers." --1 Timothy 4:7-10 You wrote: " No true Christian will lie, cheat, steal, murder, commit adultery." Are you saying that you never sin? "You talk that faith must do works to be genuine, but I was saved by a non-genuine faith?" No one is saved by a faith that is not genuine. The question is, according to the Bible, what shows our faith to be genuine? You wrote: "Forbid it that a working faith be needed." James wrote: 'What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food, and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, be warmed and be filled," and yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that? Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.' --James 2:14-17 You wrote: "I just have faith which God gave me. I did nothing for salvation." Absolutely true. "So why tell people to obey?" Good question. Why do you think all the New Testament writers instruct Christians to obey? You wrote: "That takes the glory from God." Not at all. Our God-honoring works, while they do not qualify us for salvation, bring Him great glory. And that is why we exist, to glorify God and to enjoy Him forever. That is the very purpose for which God saved Christians. You wrote: "Do you not agree that Romans 10:9,10 are the most important verses in the Holy Scipture?" No, I believe that "all Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work." (Yes, works again!) So much damage can be done by isolating a single verse or two and interpreting the rest of the Bible in light of what one assumes that brief statement means. We have seen many on this Forum quote Acts 2:38 and Mark 16:16 in every single post they submit, in order to support baptismal regeneration. People isolate James 2 to promote a salvation based on works. And, yes, people isolate John 3:16 to support a works-less theology. The fact is that the church needs the rest of the Bible to help us figure out what Romans 10:9-10 precisely means. Blessings to you! --Joe! |
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264 | Women and hair | 1 Cor 11:5 | Reformer Joe | 79555 | ||
"Please, where in the law is his argument stated?" First of all, I would like a little more clarification. Are you suggesting that Paul either lies or is mistaken in 1 Corinthians 14:34 when he says: "for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves, just as the Law also says." You also wrote: "Don’t look too hard, because IT IS NOT in Scripture." Paul is largely talking about women being in subjection to their husbands in corporate worship (verse 11:3). We read the following in the Torah: "Yet your desire will be for your husband, And he will rule over you." --Genesis 3:16 Granted, this section of 1 Corinthians does require more than just a cursory read to grasp what the problems are that Paul is addressing and their applicability to the church at large, but to quickly conclude either that we put parentheses around these verses or that we are to make all the women wear shawls is not being thorough enough. A couple of things I would like to put forward as we work to unpack the meaning: 1. It seems to me that the problem that Paul was addressing was that the women were trying to be the men in the church. While the head coverings might have been a cultural phenomenon, the fact that women were being told not to go uncovered LIKE THE MEN reveals a deeper principle than just what to wear on Sunday morning. 2. Likewise, while Paul did indeed go Nazirite for a while, I do not think that is what he was addressing when he was speaking of nature and men and long hair. Again, it was culturally inappropriate for men to have long hair. Why? Because that was what the WOMEN did. 3. Therefore, rather than being a 1st-century style guide, Paul was emphasizing the differing roles of men and women, especially in the context of corporate worship. "I'm sticking with my conclusion. Woman don’t HAVE to wear veils, they CAN pray out loud in church, etc." I agree, but that isn't to say that 1 Corinthians 10-14 is irrelevant to us because Paul was addressing specific trouble spots in the Corinthian worship. Leadership and teaching in the corporate worship setting is never extended to women. Indeed we must study the Scriptures with our thinking caps on. That way we avoid the extremes you mention (the "must we raise our hands?" argument) as well as the things at the other end of the spectrum that are equally as wrong (e.g., the idea tthese verses have no doctrinal relevance to the church in the 21st century). Thomas Schreiner wrote a very thorogh examination of these thorny verses and contributed it as a chapter in _Recovering Biblical Manhood and Womanhood_, ed. Grudem and Piper. You can access the book in PDF form at the link below. Even if you end up disagreeing with the conclusions, it is a very thoughtful study: http://www.cbmw.org/rbmw/rbmw.pdf --Joe! |
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265 | What exactly must a person to be saved? | Bible general Archive 1 | Reformer Joe | 79524 | ||
Greetings, inhisname. You wrote: "I read your question with interest and wondered why you ask what a person must do to be saved." Well, the Philippian jailer asked the question (Acts 16:30). "Did Jesus tell the young ruler to do anything? Yes, but that was old Testament." Matthew is New Testament. "Jesus was emphasizing the necessity of obedience before the cross." No one has ever been declared forgiven by God by their obedience. Abraham, David and I were saved in exactly the same way: by faith in God's promised redemption (Romans 4). People were never, ever saved by their own sin-tainted works. "After the Cross the only thing you have to do is open your mouth and confess Jesus before men and you also must believe (Romans 10:9,10)." What do you make of "New Testament" passages like these: "Pursue peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord." --Hebrews 12:14 "Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God." --1 Corinthians 6:9-11 'As obedient children, do not be conformed to the former lusts which were yours in your ignorance, but like the Holy One who called you, be holy yourselves also in all your behavior; because it is written, "YOU SHALL BE HOLY, FOR I AM HOLY."' --1 Peter 1:14-16 You wrote: "You also have to tithe and pray, but that's all." Why do you add those two if works have nothing to do with it? You wrote: "We probably could be saved if we only knew that verse and none others. " Then why did God give us 13,000 other verses? We are saved by grace through faith, but a "faith" that does not demonstrate itself in obedience to Christ is not a genuine faith at all and does not save (James 2). One of the best books I have read on the subject of the holiness in the Christian life is J.C. Ryle's _Holiness_. You can access the chapter in which Ryle distinguishes between justification and sanctification here: http://www.tctwest.net/[TILDE]trinity/HolinessPages/Chapter2.htm You will need to replace the [TILDE] above with the little squiggly thing above the "Tab" ket (Study Bible Forum won't let me use the character in the post). I hope this will help to give a clearer perspective on these two important and inseparable aspects of the believer's salvation. --Joe! |
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266 | Originals? | Rev 22:18 | Reformer Joe | 79454 | ||
Hmmm...wonder what the Bible has to say about Hagee: ''“The Jewish people have a relationship to God through the law of God as given through Moses,” Hagee said. “I believe that every Gentile person can only come to God through the cross of Christ. I believe that every Jewish person who lives in the light of the Torah, which is the word of God, has a relationship with God and will come to redemption."' The Bible: "For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek." --Romans 1:16 "For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes." --Romans 10:4 "Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God; because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin. But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction; for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus" --Romans 3:19-24 "We are Jews by nature and not sinners from among the Gentiles; nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified." --Galatians 2:15-16 'So the Jews were saying, "Surely He will not kill Himself, will He, since He says, 'Where I am going, you cannot come'?" 'And He was saying to them [i.e. to the JEWS], "You are from below, I am from above; you are of this world, I am not of this world. Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins."' --John 8:22-24 And, lest we forget, the first Christians were JEWS. The sermon at Pentecost was given to JEWS. The first recorded Gentile convert is in Acts 10; before that, all of the Christians mentioned were JEWS. Jesus is the Messiah promised to the JEWS. What was the point of Jesus sending the disciples to the lost sheep of the house of Israel if they didn't need Him?!? You cited CRI as saying: '“There are right now Jewish people on this earth who have a powerful and special relationship with God,” declares Hagee in one of his books. “...Let us put an end to the Christian chatter that “all the Jews are lost” and can’t be in the will of God until they convert to Christianity! . . . there are a certain number of Jews in relationship with God right now...”' Yeah, they have a relationship with God right now, but it certainly isn't the type of relationship that one should envy, because the outcome is hell. And to think this guy is a Texan... --Joe! |
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267 | Originals? | Rev 22:18 | Reformer Joe | 79396 | ||
"I don't know any Scientology converts or JW converts." They are out there, trust me. God brings people out of all different kinds of disbelief, and adherents to those two groups are no exception. "Why isn't the fundamentalist Christian Church bringing this fact more to light? Could it be their strict adhesion to all things Israel? Don't Israeli Jews need Christ as much as the Palestinian Muslims?" Of course they do, but many contemporary Christians are so theologically confused that they think that somehow all Jews are God's people and are somehow going to be saved apart from Y'shua their Messiah. Mix in the false notion that one must support the nation of Israel no matter how apostate they may be from the God of the Bible, and there we have our lack of evangelism to Jews and our support of all things Israeli. --Joe! |
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268 | Women and hair | 1 Cor 11:5 | Reformer Joe | 79395 | ||
Hi, Taleb. You wrote: 'Isn’t “sharing” the gospel “good work?” Women aren't allowed to do that? I'm not going to tell that to all the woman on this forum that they "aren't allowed" to answer questions, and if they need any answers to ask their husbands. Are you?' If it were biblical, I would. However, Paul was writing of the church service context, first of all, and not the whole sphere of our seven-day-a-week life. And was it just limited to the church of Corinth? "A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness. But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet." --1 Timothy 2:11-12 "The women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves, just as the Law also says. If they desire to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is improper for a woman to speak in church." --1 Corinthians 14:34-35 Paul cites not cultural stipulations, but rather the Law to support his argument. The question is, however, whether Paul is requiring absolute silence or just refraining from speaking from a position of teaching and/or authority (which would include women pastors/elders). I would say that Paul is NOT directing absolute silence on the part of women in all circumstances, and here is why: "But every woman who has her head uncovered while praying or prophesying disgraces her head, for she is one and the same as the woman whose head is shaved." --1 Corinthians 11:6 It may be possible for a woman to pray silently, but a silent prophet is no prophet at all. So, apparently Paul did not forbid the speaking of women in all circumstances, but certainly followed the Lord's direction that the household of God, just like other godly households, are to be led by the husbands and fathers. --Joe! |
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269 | TRINITY | Bible general Archive 1 | Reformer Joe | 79320 | ||
Change the word "explain" to "simplify" and I agree completely! :) --Joe! |
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270 | The Sinners Prayer! | Luke 18:13 | Reformer Joe | 79319 | ||
Tim: While I am definitely a "sola fide" kind of guy, I have my own qualms with the universal application of a sinner's prayer. It is faith in Christ through which we are justified, which may or may not be expressed in a prayer directed toward God. We see many conversions in Acts without a prayer being mentioned at all. I guess my main beef is the idea that the prayer itself is the turning point, an idea almost universally embraced by modern evangelicalism. If someone prays a sinner's prayer sincerely, I don't see anything wrong with it. However, if the prayer is indeed sincere, the faith is already present prior to uttering a single syllable. And I am sure that you, like I, have come across a great number of people who have doubts of their salvation, not because of a lack of belief in Christ's atoning work on their behalf, but rather because they can't pinpoint a single moment in which they "prayed to receive Jesus Christ." While I disagree with baptismal regeneration, I must agree with our theological opponent here that the sinner's prayer has largely replaced baptism as the sign and seal of God's regenerative grace. --Joe! |
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271 | When is a sinner counted "not guilty"? | Rom 5:9 | Reformer Joe | 79317 | ||
"Jesus destroyed sin on the cross. Sin today won't get you into hell (the second death) That is the gift. What will get you into hell is not believing in Christ." Actually, Jesus told the Pharisees the following: "Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins." --John 8:24 Those who do not believe in Christ do not have the guilt and penalty of their sin taken away. --Joe! |
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272 | TRINITY | Bible general Archive 1 | Reformer Joe | 79315 | ||
Greetings, Darcy! You wrote: "1. God the Father thinks it. 2. Jesus the Son speaks it. 3. The Holy Spirit does it. " This isn't quite accurate, as we see the Father speaking things and doing this, and Jesus thinking things and doing things, and the Holy Spirit thinking things and saying things. The best way to explain the Trinity is to look at what Scripture teaches; 1. The Father is God. 2. Jesus the Son is God. 3. The Holy Spirit is God. 4. The Father is neither the Son nor the Spirit. 5. The Son is neither the Father nor the Sprit. 6. The Spirit is neither the Father nor the Son. Blessings to you! --Joe! |
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273 | Women and hair | 1 Cor 11:5 | Reformer Joe | 79307 | ||
Hi, Taleb. You wrote: 'Had Paul meant “the Christian church at large”, why didn’t he say so?' We need to be careful when using this argument. None of Paul's epistles were written directly to us, but they are all applicable to us or they would not be Scripture. Paul was not necessarily "writing with 2000 years later on his mind," but the Holy Spirit was. --Joe! |
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274 | Still studying Mattew 24 | Matt 24:3 | Reformer Joe | 78725 | ||
Greetings, Taleb. I like titles, because titles can be useful for summarizing beliefs. In any case, my main question had to do with whether you believe that ALL of Matthew 24 has been fulfilled. What about 1 Corinthians 15? Thanks! --Joe! |
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275 | How Does Baptism Save? | 1 Pet 3:21 | Reformer Joe | 78720 | ||
"I think your tag name should be 'slippery when wet.' :) No where did I say that Abraham had faith in Jesus Christ!" And I never said that you did. "Romans 1 says that men ought to know there is a God." Right. And that is not faith. "This knowledge ought to lead them to hunger and thirst for righteousness." "Ought to." Check. Again, an "ought to" is not faith. 'If you are Abraham and God says to you, "Abraham, Leave the land of your fathers!" You go. That's the faith that saves.' No, that is the obedience resulting from the faith that saves. No matter how many times you repeat your statement to the contrary, faith leads to obedience, but faith is not obedience. The faith was there before Abraham acted, and it was the faith that was credited as righteousness. '"Awareness of truth is not faith in the truth." There you go again. I didn't say it. ' That is precisely what you implied in your last post: "Romans 1 says they do. On the basis of what God has revealed to all men they may be judged by God. They are without excuse. Faith that has not obeyed is a dead faith. We know that Abraham was not justified until his belief was obedient. " You said in reference to the human beings Paul mentioned in Romans 1 that a faith that is not obeyed is a dead faith. Either this sentence adds nothing to your argument, or your implication was that the people in Romans 1 have a faith that is not obeyed. You wrote: 'Romans 4:5 says, "Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due."' No it does not. That is Romans 4:4. Please explain the following verses in light of your "faith is obedience" theology: "But to the one WHO DOES NOT WORK, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his FAITH is credited as righteousness, just as David also speaks of the blessing on the man to whom God credits righteousness APART FROM WORKS" --Romans 4:5-6 (emphasis mine, so the point will not be missed again) And again, please tell me if Abraham was counted righteous before or after he obeyed by circumcizing himself and his household. A simple "before" or "after" will suffice. This will only be the third time I have asked this simple question. "It is you who can't seem to harmonize Paul and James. I have no trouble dealing with Romans 4:5." Then please deal with it. The REAL Romans 4:5. --Joe! |
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276 | Still studying Mattew 24 | Matt 24:3 | Reformer Joe | 78691 | ||
Taleb: "Which one do you believe?" I tend to find myself in agreement with you regarding the understanding of "generation." It is the plain meaning of the word, and it is backed up by history. Do you consider yourself to be a complete preterist (i.e. no future return of Christ at all)? --Joe! |
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277 | How Does Baptism Save? | 1 Pet 3:21 | Reformer Joe | 78690 | ||
Does Romans 1 say that all men have faith in Jesus Christ? "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened." --Romans 1:18-21 Romans 1 tells us that God has made the truth evident to all human beings. Romans 1 does not state that human beings trust in the truth which God has revealed. In fact, it says the exact opposite: they suppress the truth in unrighteousness. So, although the truth is right before their eyes, there is no faith in that truth. And, as I said before, they possess no trust at all in the Jesus of the Bible. Awareness of the truth is not faith in the truth. What the sinner does is exchange the truth of God for a lie. "We know that Abraham was not justified until his belief was obedient. " I am still waiting to hear how you fit Romans 4:5 into what "we" know. As well as God justifying Abraham before his obedience in circumcision. If you are correct, you have to incorporate Paul's argument into your thinking. --Joe! |
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278 | How Does Baptism Save? | 1 Pet 3:21 | Reformer Joe | 78630 | ||
Greetings. You wrote: "His incomplete faith led to his obedience. We've discussed on this forum the faith that all men have, ought to have, because of the evidence in creation. Each man is without excuse should he leave this earth without being reconciled to God." Amen. But they key term you brought up is that men ought to have that faith. Those who will be in hell do not possess a "faith without obedience" or a "faith that is about to obey." They possess no trust at all in the Jesus of the Bible. "Abraham had this faith and he acted upon it." That he did. And all true faith in Christ does lead to obedience. The question is whether it is the trust in Christ or the obedience (or some combination of the two) that receives the imputed righteousness of Christ. Again, Romans 4 shuts the door on obedience being that conduit. What do you have to say about Romans 4:5? You wrote: "But as I have said, faith that 'is about to obey' isn't what God credits as righteousness." Are you sure? Paul wrote: 'Is this blessing then on the circumcised, or on the uncircumcised also? For we say, "FAITH WAS CREDITED TO ABRAHAM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS." How then was it credited? While he was circumcised, or uncircumcised? Not while circumcised, but while uncircumcised; and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while uncircumcised, so that he might be the father of all who believe without being circumcised, that righteousness might be credited to them," --Romans 4:9-11 The order of events, according to Paul, is: a) Abraham believed God b) God considers him righteous c) Abraham obeys God by circumcision There is no other way to render the passage but to conclude that Abraham's obedience to God's command to be circumcised was a result and an evidence of his saving faith, so his "faith that was about to obey" was precisely the instrument of his justification before God. And, yes, faith without works is dead, and cannot save. A dead faith is not true faith at all. --Joe! |
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279 | Still studying Mattew 24 | Matt 24:3 | Reformer Joe | 78628 | ||
Not to mention that it solves the "this generation will not pass away until these things happen" problem... --Joe! |
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280 | How Does Baptism Save? | 1 Pet 3:21 | Reformer Joe | 78627 | ||
Well, we on the other side have to remember that we are not justified by election, that our justification is conditioned upon our faith. And I think that all believers (especially myself) need to remember that at no point in our Christian lives do we need to look at our obedience (or lack thereof) as the basis of our right standing with God. It is so easy to fall into the trap of looking at our sin and despair, thinking that somehow God is now looking at our performance as what will get us into heaven, rather than the obedience of His Son on our behalf. I do see my baptism as a sign and seal of God's promise to me. How gracious of God to give our weak selves visible signs in water and bread and cup to point to His grace. --Joe! |
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