Results 1601 - 1620 of 1928
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Results from: Notes Author: Reformer Joe Ordered by Date |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1601 | response | Rom 1:18 | Reformer Joe | 21852 | ||
You wrote: "I agree 100 percent! I am glad you have come to a common Armenianist assumption: God’s foreknowledge comes before his predetermined path! RC Sproul, however, would string you up and shoot you for conceding that point to an Armenianist in this debate. J RC jumbles this list up and places Predestined as first on the list in the ordered chain, because it is the only way the passage will make sense—In his Theology." 1. R.C. Sproul has not been known to string anyone up. 2. It is not HIS theology. 3. You are 100 percent wrong about R.C. Sproul. Foreknowledge of the elect does indeed precede predestination. Where you err is not having a good understanding of what it means to "foreknow" someone in this sense. You seem to think that this passage implies that God foreknows the CHOICES that everyone will make. That is not what this passage is saying at all. Every verb here applies to one group of people and one group alone. He foreknew the elect, predestined the elect, called the elect, justified the elect, glorified the elect. It ruptures the meaning of this passage to say that it refers to God foreknowing DECISIONS that both the elect and non-elect would make. "Foreknowing" means "fore-loving," knowing in an intimate sense, not in an "I am aware of something" sense. We see the Bible employing the verb "know" in this sense several times in Scripture, where it is clear that it means much more than to simply be aware: "but if anyone loves God, he is known by Him." --1 Corinthians 8:3 But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how is it that you turn back again to the weak and worthless elemental things, to which you desire to be enslaved all over again?" --Galatians 4:9 So we see that even Paul uses this verb to describe an intimate knowledge rather than just an intellectual awareness. Note again that the Romans verse does not say that he knows something ABOUT people, but rather that he knows PEOPLE. Furthermore, it simply makes no sense that an omniscient God would simply foreknow one group in an intellectual, perceptive sense and not the rest of humanity. I must say that I am also a little put out by your misrepresentation of Sproul here. It is very sloppy. I suggest that you go pick up a copy of his book _Grace Unknown_ before you start putting words in his mouth. The Reformed view of Romans 8:29 is very well-explained there. --Joe! |
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1602 | Lionstrong - God's love, plan-unbiblical | Rom 1:18 | Reformer Joe | 21827 | ||
You must be new here if you haven't seen my views on that. :) This topic has been covered in a major way on this forum. I would type "Christ elect" in the Quick Search window to read and add to those discussions. --Joe! |
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1603 | Lionstrong - God's love, plan-unbiblical | Rom 1:18 | Reformer Joe | 21761 | ||
Just a note for you. Two notes, actually. First, welcome to the forum! Second, Lionstrong was not saying that God doesn't have a plan. His argument is that the "us" referred to in Romans 5:8 is synonymous with the "whosoever believes in Him" in John 3:16, and those are the only ones for whom God has a WONDERFUL plan. --Joe! |
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1604 | Are Positional and Practical truths true | Ex 1:1 | Reformer Joe | 21759 | ||
Show me from Scripture that I am already righteous in practice (by that I mean holy, sinless, and perfect). To say that we are righteous in the same way that Christ was righteous during His earthly stay is a real insult to the Son of God. --Joe! |
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1605 | On Harry Potter? | Bible general Archive 1 | Reformer Joe | 21387 | ||
Prayon: A "worldview" is a way of looking at the world, not necessarily the world's way of looking at things. There exists a biblical worldview, the only accurate one there is. Thanks for the info on Harry Potter. As I said, it is the Christian's duty to respond to the contrary claims of the supernatural/spiritual from a Biblically-informed point of view. "We are destroying speculations and every lofty thing raised up against the knowledge of God, and we are taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ" --2 Corinthians 10:5 --Joe! |
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1606 | On Harry Potter? | Bible general Archive 1 | Reformer Joe | 21373 | ||
Of course, Narnia and Lord of the Rings were written by Christians with an overarching Christian worldview/theme. One thing that has disturbed me is not only the books, but "Little Sorcerer's Kits" marketed by the publishing company as well. One does have to discern where to draw the line, and I am pretty confident that Tim's kids, being supervised by a concerned Christian parent, will not fall into the occult. However, I also agree with Ed that the author of this series also has an agenda beyond just telling a good story. What we as Christians must make sure that we can do is counter this, just like any other false worldview, with the true gospel of Christ Jesus. Educate yourselves on the worldview of Harry Potter, grow in your understanding of God's holy Word, and be able to articulate the truth in the face of lies. It is a God-given opportunity to present the truth of Christianity whenever things of a supernatural/spiritual nature are brought up. --Joe! |
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1607 | God repented | Rom 1:18 | Reformer Joe | 21186 | ||
Tim: As I was thinking about this again today, I realized that the Belgic Confession addresses this issue quite well. Here is what Article 13 says: We believe that this good God, after he created all things, did not abandon them to chance or fortune but leads and governs them according to his holy will, in such a way that nothing happens in this world without his orderly arrangement. Yet God is not the author of, nor can he be charged with, the sin that occurs. For his power and goodness are so great and incomprehensible that he arranges and does his work very well and justly even when the devils and wicked men act unjustly. We do not wish to inquire with undue curiosity into what he does that surpasses human understanding and is beyond our ability to comprehend. But in all humility and reverence we adore the just judgments of God, which are hidden from us, being content to be Christ's disciples, so as to learn only what he shows us in his Word, without going beyond those limits. This doctrine gives us unspeakable comfort since it teaches us that nothing can happen to us by chance but only by the arrangement of our gracious heavenly Father. He watches over us with fatherly care, keeping all creatures under his control, so that not one of the hairs on our heads (for they are all numbered) nor even a little bird can fall to the ground without the will of our Father. In this thought we rest, knowing that he holds in check the devils and all our enemies, who cannot hurt us without his permission and will. For that reason we reject the damnable error of the Epicureans, who say that God involves himself in nothing and leaves everything to chance. --Joe! |
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1608 | GOD'S COVENANT THAT MAN COULD DO GOOD OR | Gen 2:17 | Reformer Joe | 21099 | ||
Yes, that is a command...so is "repent" and "Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved"...both of which are how the covenant of grace is appropriated to believers. God, being the Creator, established a covenant with man, the creation, on His terms. --Joe! |
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1609 | God repented | Rom 1:18 | Reformer Joe | 21096 | ||
Cain had a wife? How is THAT possible? :) --Joe! |
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1610 | God repented | Rom 1:18 | Reformer Joe | 21066 | ||
Hank: Thanks for the compliments. Actually, I haven't started any threads in a good, long time around these parts. This thread, in my view, doesn't really have a lot to do with election, but whether God's plans are stymied by man's decisions. The original post to which I responded seemed to indicate that we can "mess God up" by doing the wrong thing, and my attempt was to clear up that biblical inaccuracy. I think Tim and I agree on this one. I would like a change of pace myself, but I am not terribly interested in the "Did Jesus REALLY have a beard?" type of posts, and the "Where does it say...?" kinds of posts really don't leave open a lot for discussion once they have been answered. In other words, what else is here that merits discussion at the present time? --Joe! |
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1611 | God repented | Rom 1:18 | Reformer Joe | 21048 | ||
Tim: You wrote: "Let me know what you think!" Haven't you learned by now what can of worms that opens? You also wrote: "I'm not trying to be a smart alex, but this seemed like a contradictory statement. Aren't decrees things that ultimately spring from God's sovereign will? Thus, how could God decree something that He knew would happen?" Not very precise, was it? That's what sleep deprivation does to Joe... God's sovereign will includes what He does Himself, what He orchestrates to occur, and what He permits from His sentient creation. This is indeed a tricky subject, because we have to take into account a lot of things: 1. God's omnipotence and omniscience 2. The responsibility of human beings for their own sin. 3. The fact that God in many places in Scripture declares that He is bringing about judgment upon this individual or that nation, and His decree that judgment will come by means of the sinful activities of another individual or nation (e.g. Absolom sleeping with David's harem as a direct result of his sin with Bathsheba; the conquest of Israel and Judah by Assyria and Babylon, respectively). 4. Our God is a God of purpose. Absolutely nothing that occurs in life is coincidence from God's perspective; and every action in creation, whether committed or permitted by God, has a direct connection to the entire plan of God. That is a lot of Scriptural truth to work into a coherent theology! Let's apply this to a woman who becomes a prostitute. 1. God has always known that it would happen, and God was able to stop it from happening. 2. The woman is responsible for each individual act of sin. 3. God has sovereignly placed the woman in the life situation that she is in, giving her an opportunity and perhaps even a life situation more conducive to a person becoming a prostitute. This is not to say that God TEMPTS the woman to become a prostitute, but one's upbringing makes certain sins more available and socially acceptable (or at least less socially unacceptable). Another example that demonstrates this is the fact that unsaved teenage boys in upper-class, gated communites and who attend private preparatory schools are much less likely to express their inherent sinfulness by joining a street gang than a teenage boy in the inner city. Both are sinful in the eyes of a holy God, and are incapable of pleasing him in anything they do. However, their life situations, ordained by God, give each of them different likely outlets for that sinfulness to manifest itself. In other words, God, though external means, directs our innate sinfulness in directions in which His purposes will be accomplished. 4. The prostitute's sinful decision in her God-decreed environment is decreed to occur (i.e. her sinful wish is permitted to be carried out), with effects reaching as far as God allows and no farther. All of this was included beforehand, in eternity past, as an included event in God's overall plan, along with its consequential effects on other things that He decrees. I agree that God exists beyond time, but he does "reach in" and interacts in a chronological, linear fashion with his temporally-bound creation. --Joe! |
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1612 | God's plan | Rom 1:18 | Reformer Joe | 20753 | ||
Johnny: You wrote: "But if you can easily say that my opinion is wrong, how could you justify that yours are right? How many religion we have in the world? If all the people has the same interpretation of the bible why we have too many religion right now?" I supported my position by Scripture -- and lots of it. That's how I have justified holding the position that I do. You have yet to offer one passage which supports your interpretation. Until you can clearly demonstrate to me from the Bible where I am wrong regarding God's sovereignty over all things (even sin), why should I think that you are right? Hopefully we belong to the same religion (Christianity) even if we come from different theological perspectives. I am not judging anything too fast, by the way. I am not a person who jumps to conclusions very easily. However, you have to agree that one of us is wrong here. You say one thing; I say the exact opposite. Both of us cannot be right. You may not say use the word "wrong," but saying things like "your God is unfair" or "your God [fill in the blank]" accomplishes the same thing. I do not mind you considering me wrong, Johnny. I just wish you would provide some evidence to support your claim. It is true that there are many interpretations of Scripture out there. Many of them are incredibly wrong. There are not ten thousand correct interpretations of anything in the Bible. There is only one. I am sure that some of them I hold will turn out to be wrong, but this is definitely not one of them. We are called to tell Muslims and Hindus and Buddhists that they are wrong. We are called to tell Jews that they are wrong for rejecting their Messiah. We are called to tell atheists that they are suppressing the truth of God to their peril. We are called to tell those in cults that they are wrong in their heresy. And, using Scripture, we are called to correct our brothers and sisters in Christ when they are wrong on important doctrine (2 Timothy 3:16-17) such as the sovereignty of God. Christianity is about TRUTH, not opinions. There certainly is a tactful way of telling the truth, but don't fall into the trap of thinking that preaching the Gospel does not mean challenging the beliefs of others. You have the right to hold whatever opinion you want, but that does not mean the opinion itself is right. --Joe! |
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1613 | Who dose not belive in the TERM Trinity? | Bible general Archive 1 | Reformer Joe | 20728 | ||
Yeah, please do that, Radioman. I am sure that this is the first person you have encountered who makes the erroneous claim that the Trinity began with the Council of Nicaea.. :) --Joe! P.S. -- Anti-Trinitarians deny the truth of what Scripture reveals |
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1614 | response | Rom 1:18 | Reformer Joe | 20681 | ||
Why do you feel you have the liberty to rearrange the order Paul set for his "golden chain of redemption"? Those he FOREKNEW, he PREDESTINED, he CALLED, JUSTIFIED, GLORIFIED. All of these are describing the same group of people. Who is the subject of all of these verbs? Who is the object? Again, the verse clearly indicates that God did not foreknow events, but rather PEOPLE. You write: "1. What is the Biblical basis for your belief here?" Aside from the other verses I quoted? Romans 9:18-24; Ephesians 1:4,11; Ephesians 2:3; John 6:37-40,44,65; 1 Peter 1:3-5 (for starters)...let me know if you need more. I am not "running wild" with one word in one verse. It is a clear doctrine that screams its truth from both the Old and New Testaments. There is scarcely a chapter in Scripture which does not declare that the whole ball game is God's and that He will do what He will do, regardless of man's own agenda. "God is sovereign Joe. If God is all powerful, can't he create a world in which his creation is really free to make choices? Yes. And he did." 1. God can do what He wants according to his own unchangeable nature. The question isn't "what can God do?," but rather "what HAS he done?" 2. Please go back and re-read my previous post beginning with: "One last thing: you seem to be under the common misunderstanding that Calvinists believe that the sovereignty of God means that man does not make his own decisions." I have never stated than man is not free at all to make choices. I have said that man is not ultimately free, because he is bound by his nature and by circumstance. Within those two bounds we have complete freedom. Let me give you a concrete example. Let's say in my free will I purpose in my heart to invade Libya and rename it Joeland. I have the will to do that, but I think we would agree that I am not in a situation to carry out my will, because God has not allowed me to be in a position of enough means and power to do so. The unregenerate likewise are limited by something else: the depravity of their nature. They have a range of choices that they can make in life, but they will not ever will to do anything that honors God. Paul declares that the unsaved are unable to please God at all because they are completely enslaved to their sinful nature. This does not mean that they want to do what is right but can't, but rather that they don't WANT to do what is right in the first place, or at least not from the right motives. I am sorry if your misunderstanding comes from poor explanation of Reformed theology. Pick up James White's book that I recommended and read it without any preconceptions. It really does a very good job of defending historic Reformed thinking. --Joe! |
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1615 | God's plan | Rom 1:18 | Reformer Joe | 20676 | ||
Looking at your first paragraph, I don't see how you could consider that not a decree. God's decree in the Bible isn't "I will personally do everything," but rather, "I declare from the beginning everything that is going to happen." That is how we see all of God's purposes coming to pass as well as the free agency of beings within his creation. We will act freely in accordance with our own nature and our external freedom and ability to act and largely in accordance with the life situation in which we were raised. I would recommend that you go back and re-read the story of Joseph being sold into slavery. At first they had purposed to kill him. I wonder who put the idea into Reuben's head just to throw him into the well? The sinfulness is ours, but God directs in in the way He wants it to go to glorify himself. Again, in Genesis, we see Joseph specifically declaring that God had purpose in Joseph's life going the way it did. Go back and re-read the story of Joseph's life. See how many times he is placed in misfortune against his will, and see how blessed a story it is because God strategically placed every trial in his life to get the outcome that he wanted. There are few places in the Bible where God's sovereignty in one man's life is so clearly displayed. As far as 9/11, I pose the same question to you that I did to Johnny: if God knew about it from eternity past, and was omnipresent and omniscient at all of the planning meetings to know the minds and hearts of the terrorists and their plans, and had the power at any point to foil the plans of the hijackers, how can you say that God did not intend for it to happen? Yes, the sin was the terrorists', but God knew about it all along, knew what the results would be, had the power to stop it, and didn't (in the case of the two that hit their targets). You wrote: "He knew their hearts and allowed them to act from their own evil natures, unwittingly advancing God's plan." Of course. That is what I have been saying all along. God's decree doesn't mean God does it. However, in God's sovereignty, nothing escapes Him. Part of the crucifixion scenario was that God fully intended that Judas betray Jesus. He directed Judas' innate sinfulness in such a way that His purposes were accomplished. --Joe! |
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1616 | God's plan | Rom 1:18 | Reformer Joe | 20674 | ||
I wish you would stop saying things like "your God" and "my God." That smacks of New Age belief, even though I am sure that you do not adhere to such a world view. There is only one God. The question being raised here is "What is THE God like and how does he operate in the world." If your beliefs are not subject to correction, that makes you unteachable, and I pity you for that. I know that if you were to clearly and logically demonstrate where I was wrong here, that I would change the way I believed. You fail to do that, however. You basically are saying, "I don't care what your argument is and how much Scripture supports your view, I am going to continue believing what I want to believe." Wrong, wrong, wrong. --Joe! |
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1617 | Workout your own salvation | Rom 1:18 | Reformer Joe | 20673 | ||
Our will is in bondage to sin before we are saved, and there is not a single thing that the unregenerate person does that pleases God. Romans 8:7-9. Therefore, an unbeliever will make all kinds of choices, depending on his influences of life around him, his opportunity and power to act. But he will NEVER choose to please God apart from the liberation from sin that comes from the Holy Spirit's regeneration of the heart. He is completely unable to do so. That is biblical truth. --Joe! |
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1618 | response | Rom 1:18 | Reformer Joe | 20647 | ||
Hank: Of course, one of the "solutions" offered by the modern church is to strive to make itself look as much like the world as possible, thinking that we can appeal to one's selfish desire to be entertained and not compromise the stumbing block that is the cross. I think you would agree that the key is to maintain our distinctiveness (i.e. salt and light) and at the same time be effective ambassadors for Christ in the world. Maybe the best place for us to be would not be the "walled fortress," but rather the neighbor, foreign country (the Kingdom of God) whose culture is clearly different from the nations surrounding it, but has a good diplomatic corps and is seeking to expand itself into the hearts of those not yet citizens. :) --Joe! |
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1619 | Ninevah did. | Rom 1:18 | Reformer Joe | 20642 | ||
Tim: How would you factor in God's command to Jeremiah not to pray for the repentance of Judah? And God certainly had a lot to say about Jonah's assertion of his free will, didn't He? :) --Joe! |
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1620 | Ninevah did. | Rom 1:18 | Reformer Joe | 20641 | ||
Norrie: I agree and will go a step further: God, already knowing what those mistakes will be, has already woven them into the fabric of human history, which will ultimately glorify Him! --Joe! |
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