Results 21 - 40 of 64
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Results from: Notes Author: Nevvvvine Ordered by Verse |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
21 | The Author's Role | Acts 16:11 | Nevvvvine | 211460 | ||
Hi Lionheart:: It is so nice to see the Christian ethic in practice Matthew 7:12 12) Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets. Luke 6:31 31) And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise. Luke 10:25-28 25) And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? 26) He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? 27) And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. 28) And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live. In Christ Nevvvvine |
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22 | The Author's Role | Acts 16:11 | Nevvvvine | 211461 | ||
Hi Keliy:: Thank you for your most gracious post, and the information you have provided. I am awair of this information. The whole question has come about because of a misunderstanding, but thank you anyway. Read my answer to John and you will understand. In Gods Love Nevvvvine |
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23 | Two Natures or One? | Rom 6:6 | Nevvvvine | 209918 | ||
Hi Tim:: You have made these two statements, You seem to be very emphatic with your (No!) I did not want to muddy the water, more than it has already, so I haven loaded this post with a lot of questions, only the answer to yours. If you would like to have all of my understanding on this I would be more than happy to oblige. But at this point I felt you needed to see this first. "Does this mean that a Christian can no longer sin? No!" "No where does Scripture tell us that it is impossible for us to sin" 1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. God Bless Have a Good Day Nevvvvine |
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24 | Two Natures or One? | Rom 6:6 | Nevvvvine | 209938 | ||
Hi again Tim:: Thank you for the welcome I guess I could probably call this my Part-1 (you say) 1 John 3:9. This is the only verse in all of the Bible that seems to say that it is impossible for a Christian to sin. That fact alone makes it quite unusual. (answer) The fact it "IS" the only one, making it unique to the rest of the religious canon. That should make us ask the question all the more. Why is it here, what does it mean to us as christians, how does it fit with the rest of the teachings in the Bible? Instead we have automatically discounted it, based on our Doctrines, Dogmas, Traditions, Rituals. That kind of action on our part, would turn us into the equivalent of a 21st. Century Pharisee. (you say) Does it really mean what it appears to say? (answer) Well I'm here to tell you, "it sure does". (you say) Thus, it would appear that sin is a possibility for a Christian even as obedience is a possibility. (answer) John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, (and shall not come into condemnation;) ( but is passed from death unto life.) Rom. 8:1 There is therefore now (no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus,) (who walk not after the flesh,) (but after the Spirit.) "Why?" you might ask. Rom. 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world:) (but sin is not imputed when there is no law.) Rom. 6:2,11 God forbid. (How shall we, that are dead to sin,) (live any longer therein?) (Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin,) (but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.) Rom. 6:4 (Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death:) (that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father,) (even so "we" also should walk in newness of life.) The point you are failing to see is very simple. Upon the event of our baptism, our identifying with Christ by dying to the flesh, we are resurrected with Christ, this is the point of our regeneration, in newness of life. As spoken of in Rom. 6:4 This is the New birth, Born Again. Newness of life, New Creation, means just that, we have truly become a Peculiar People. We are in the flesh, (But we are dead to the Flesh) We are in the flesh, (But we are alive to the Spirit) This is not something we choose to do, this is something God has done for us, through the sacrifice of Jesus. Our flesh will still go through the motions of sin (Rom. 5:13 above) I have to split part 1 and make a part 2 Nevvvvine |
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25 | Two Natures or One? | Rom 6:6 | Nevvvvine | 209939 | ||
Hi Tim This is the Part 2 so you will have to go down to read part 1 sorry Rom. 7:15 (For that which I do) (I allow not:) (for what I would,) (that do I not;) (but what I hate,) (that do I.) Rom. 7:24,25 O wretched man that I am! (who shall deliver me from the body of this death?) I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. (So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God;) (but with the flesh the law of sin.) Paul in this description is calling himself the wretched man, as the example for us in order for every man that call them selves Christian, to be able to understand the Grace of God, and the Power to be found in this Sacrifice of Jesus Christ, for us who believe. John 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, (ye shall be free indeed.) 1 Cor. 6:12 (All things are lawful unto me,) (but all things are not expedient:) (all things are lawful for me,) (but I will not be brought under the power of any.) 1 Cor. 10:23 (All things are lawful for me,) (but all things are not expedient:) (all things are lawful for me,) (but all things edify not.) Eph. 2:1-6 (you say) Paul, in Galatians 5, Romans 6, and Romans 8, deals with our need to walk according to the Spirit so that we will not gratify the desires of the flesh. So, evidently, it is possible for a Christian to sin. (answer) Rom. 8:7 Because (the carnal mind is enmity against God:) (for it is not subject to the law of God,) neither indeed can be.) Gal. 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: (nevertheless I live;) (yet not I, but Christ liveth in me:) (and the life which I now live in the flesh) (I live by the faith of the Son of God,) who loved me, and gave himself for me. Gal. 5:24,25 And they that are Christ's (have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.) (If we live in the Spirit,) (let us also walk in the Spirit.) Rom. 6:11 Likewise (reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin,) (but alive unto God) through Jesus Christ our Lord. 1 Cor. 15:48,49 (As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy:) and (as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.) And (as we have borne the image of the earthy,) (we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.) John 3:6 (That which is born of the flesh is flesh;) and (that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.) It is all done for us, we do not have to wait to die before we can gain this freedom, it has already been provided for us, we just have to acknowledge it now. I guess that is a lot to absorb for now. Your brother in Christ Nevvvvine |
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26 | Two Natures or One? | Rom 6:6 | Nevvvvine | 209943 | ||
Hi Val:: Thank you for your welcome I'm glad you enjoy them, I enjoy discussing the things of the Lord. (you say) 1) "I tend to disagree with and that is at the point when one becomes "saved". 2) "Only God knows when that point is in a believer's life." 3) "Baptism is a reflection of that point" (answer) If I may, when one becomes "saved". and "Only God knows when that point is in a believer's life." I believe we can be witnesses to a persons salvation, because it is an outward sign that they believe. Rom. 10:9 That (if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus,) and (shalt believe in thine heart) that God hath raised him from the dead, (thou shalt be saved.) Now if you are going to point at the believing in the "heart" let me then put this forward. 1 Cor. 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost. Baptism, is the part where everyone gets their tails in a knot;-( There are only two times "regeneration" is used in the bible. Mat. 19:28 and Tit. 3:5 (Not by works of righteousness which we have done,) (but according to his mercy he saved us,) (by the washing of regeneration,) and (renewing of the Holy Ghost;) Act. 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. At this point the washing of regeneration sure sounds like baptism, "If it walks like a duck" I have looked, I cant find any scriptures for the doctrine of Regeneration. It may sound nice, but that doesn't quite fit my criteria for a doctrinal belief. The word "renewing" is only used two times as well, Tit. 3:5 above, and Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: (but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind,) (that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.) So it appears we are washed, regenerated, and renewed all at the same time. What then is being (saved, regenerated, born again)? Is being (saved, Regenerated, born again) the same thing? When we say we are (saved) what are we saved from? When we say we are (saved) are we (regenerated, born again) at the same time? When we say we are (regenerated, born again) what are we (regenerated, born again) unto, or for? Are we (saved) form eternal damnation in the lake of fire? It doesn't matter if you keep believing what you do, and I do the same, neither one of us will lose our salvation because of these beliefs. But without any rancor between us because of our differing beliefs, we continue to have a meaningful discourse on the things of God, then we are keeping the Unity of the Spirit, as we have been told to do. It means one of us has been given more light than the other, and that person should not put a stumbling block before his brother. causing him to fall because of the liberty that one has. One believes one day is Holy, another believes all days are. Your Brother in Christ Blessings on You Nevvvvine |
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27 | Two Natures or One? | Rom 6:6 | Nevvvvine | 209956 | ||
Hi BradK:: Thanks for the interest. It is true I do uphold baptismal regeneration, but I feel more comfortable saying Born Again. Because I do, I feel that this also answers questions 1, and 2 . But because you asked for an elaboration, the "washing of regeneration" spoken of in Tit. 3 to me says baptism. Have a Blessed day Your Brother in Christ Nevvvvine |
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28 | Two Natures or One? | Rom 6:6 | Nevvvvine | 210065 | ||
Hank:: Maybe you would be able to give me the reason for baptism, just what purpose does it serve in the christians life, if everyones opinion is that it is not for regeneration. Just why should a christian bother getting baptised today. Nevvvvine |
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29 | Am I ignorant | 1 Cor 12:1 | Nevvvvine | 211009 | ||
Hi Lionheart:: if everyone believes that the ("Gospel of Salvation") must be preached unto all the world then the end shall come then the gifts that were available to the 1st. century church must still be available to the 21st. century church simply on the grounds that there are still churches being set up even as we speak.So is there not still a need for all of the gifts? In His Love Nevvvvine |
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30 | Am I ignorant | 1 Cor 12:1 | Nevvvvine | 211065 | ||
Hi lionheart:: To me as far as I am concerned if the gifts were to stop at the end of what has been called the Apostolic age ie, 1st. cenruty. Then there would logically be scripture to tell us in the 21st. century that we have no need to seek after the gifts of the spirit because they have ended. But as we can clearly see in scripture it does not say anything of the kind. What you and others are proposing is. Because it does not explicitally say that the gifts will end then they must have ended. So it is not what truth is in scripture anymore that counts. It is what is not in scripture that carries the weight of truth. Let me ask you if you will. This belief that you have were you taught it as doctrine. Or did God himself by his Holy Spirit open your eyes to the fact that His gifts to the church have ceased to exist. Does the (BODY) of Christ still exist then are we not to have the same vibrance as a body that existed in the 1st. century are we not to be a be a light to the world? 1 Cor.12:--13:9-10 So your saying the perfect has come and the gifts are done away with. Just what is the perfect? Sounds like a good example of a Proof Text to me except you have neglected to explain to me what your saying with these scriptures. I guess I am supposed to pull out of the scriptures you have used your understanding of them. You say: "we need to let The Word speek and it does." Are there other places where The Word speaks to this issue? To put to rest any worries that you might have. I always read in context. In Him Nevvvvine |
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31 | Am I ignorant | 1 Cor 12:1 | Nevvvvine | 211119 | ||
Hi John:: Why would the teaching on the Gifts of the Spirit have been written to the Corinthians? Which would have multiplied the amount people that were able to avail themselves of these gifts, and in many cases much younger than the Apostles. Thereby putting the possible end of said gifts into the 2nd. century, and so on with the same teaching from Cor. until we are in todays time sitting on the forum debating wether the Gifts of the Spitit are for today, because there are no scriptures that speak explicidly to this question which is what type of scripture it would have to be, not some vague belief of what something MIGHT be saying. To Quote a venerable poster on this forum if I may. Quote from Doc. "If we aren't told, then all we can do is speculate." That seems to be exactly the thing that the Cessationism perspective is all about. I will take the time to read all of the links Doc has posted, and you have so graciously recomended to Tim, with a completely open mind, as I am sure you would do, were you in my position (:-) In His Love Nevvvvine |
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32 | Am I ignorant | 1 Cor 12:1 | Nevvvvine | 211178 | ||
Hi Jeff:: Thank you for your response. To clarify for you, what I was saying is that the teaching in Cor. would open to more people the receiving of said gifts. I am not refuting, that the gifts of the Spirit are clearly shown to be the work of God through the believer, After all they are called the Gifts of the Holy Spirit, they were not conjoured up by man to do something for God. 1 Cor.14:12,13 12) Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church. 13) Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret. So we see that we "can seek" to a greater gift, a deeper understanding of them. A differant way of saying it would be, there were, and are today, people that can receive the gifts of the spirit, by being taught that they are available to us, and that we can seek for the manifestation of them in our lives. This teaching will be a direct cause of the proliferation of thes gifts. About the lifespan, I was saying that there were people, that were receiving these Gifts, that were alot younger than the Apostles, meaning that they would be living into the 2nd. century, and teaching others that they also could, and should receive also. And so on, until the 21st.century. you say: "I don't find that God would give a gift to an individual and then he/she be in permanent possession and practice of that gift until his/her death." answer: Are there any other people documented in the bible besides the Apostles, (Timothy) that we can definativly say, they had the Gifts? Is there any documentation, refuting the posession of these Gifts until their deaths? Did Paul, John, Peter ever Stop being Apostles? you say: "I do see where particular gifts were used in particular events by individuals and then not mentioned again." answer: What particular event are you refering to? We see that Jesus healed a "Lunitic", but because there are not 5 more accounts of this same event taking place, does this mean that Jesus lost the power to proform this healing? No of course it doesn't, it just means that there does not need to be a redundancy of ocasions for us to know, and believe that these events took place more than one time, I guess it is one of those things we are taught, we are to take on FAITH. In summary: 1) Gifts are clearly of GOD. 2) There can be teaching of receiving thes Gifts. 3) Is permanent possession of thes Gifts possable. 4) Your particular event scripture. 5) Gifts only used inparticular events. God Bless Nevvvvine |
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33 | Am I ignorant | 1 Cor 12:1 | Nevvvvine | 212027 | ||
Hi Brad: This post is for everyone that have contributed to this thread. I post it to you, for you to be able to add it to your studies. The following is a scripture, I have just found while looking for something else. To me It answers the question in the thread of - - - " Am I Ignorant" ("Are the Gifts of the Holy Spirit for today, or did the Gifts stop when the Apostles died"?) This finding should put to rest, where it should be, the belief called "The Apostolic Age" which has been put forth, as the reason for the ending of the Gifts of the Spirit. Just where did the teaching called "The Apostolic Age" originate? I have added the brackets: EPH.4:7 and 11-16 7) But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ. 11) And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12) For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13) (Till we all come in the unity of the faith), (and of the knowledge of the Son of God), (unto a perfect man), (unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ): 14) That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; 15) But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: 16) From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love. Till we all come in the unity of the faith Unless I am mistaken, "Till" means "Till" these things come to pass. I for one do not see where any of the 4 things listed have been fulfilled yet. Therefore if the "TILL" has not come to pass, then the Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists, Pastors and Teachers, are "ALL" still needed in the 21 Century Church. If we say, Evangelists, Pastors and Teachers are still in the Church, but not Apostles, and that Prophets are a question at this point, then "TILL" has not come to pass. If this 5 fold minestry is still viable, and alive today, then so are the Gifts of the Spirit. The things that need to come to pass are. 1) The Church comes together in the Unity of the faith 2) And the full knowledge of the Son of God. 3) Unto a perfect man. 4) Unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ. For the Church to come unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ. The connotation of that statement is that there SHOULD be the Gifts in the Church, which would constitute the measure of his stature, and his fullness. Then vs.16 states, "every joint supplieth, effectual working in the measure of every part", this also signifing a referance to 1 Cor. 12 and 14. listing of the Gifts. In the light of this scripture, it is my belief that most basically these vs. are saying, that "Until" these things in the Church, (Body of Christ) come to pass, all of the 5 ministeries, and including the Gifts of the Spirit, will be needed, and should be in use. God Bless Nevvvvine |
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34 | Am I ignorant | 1 Cor 12:1 | Nevvvvine | 212029 | ||
Hi humbledbyhisgrace: Thank you for your responce. My post is a direct rebuttal. To the argument of those, that would call themselves (Cessationist), on the grounds, "The Apostolic Age" came to an end, and therefore the (Gifts of the Spirit) also ended. The thrust of my post revolves around these verses. Eph 4: 11-13 1) Which give the list of the ministeries to the Church. 2) The reason for these ministeries. 3) And the fact that these ministeries will not cease, "UNTIL" certain things are fulfilled, by the Church. I believe the same as you do my brother, please reread my post. 11) And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12) For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13) (Till we all come in the unity of the faith), (and of the knowledge of the Son of God), (unto a perfect man), (unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ): In Gods Love Nevvvvine |
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35 | Am I ignorant | 1 Cor 12:1 | Nevvvvine | 212030 | ||
Hi humbledbyhisgrace: Thank you for your responce. My post is a direct rebuttal. To the argument of those, that would call themselves (Cessationist), on the grounds, "The Apostolic Age" came to an end, and therefore the (Gifts of the Spirit) also ended. The thrust of my post revolves around these verses. Eph 4: 11-13 1) Which give the list of the ministeries to the Church. 2) The reason for these ministeries. 3) And the fact that these ministeries will not cease, "UNTIL" certain things are fulfilled, by the Church. I believe the same as you do my brother, please reread my post. 11) And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12) For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13) (Till we all come in the unity of the faith), (and of the knowledge of the Son of God), (unto a perfect man), (unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ): In Gods Love Nevvvvine |
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36 | Am I ignorant | 1 Cor 12:1 | Nevvvvine | 212049 | ||
Hi humbledbyhisgrace: The possibility exists that we could be at opposit ends of this issue. You have asked 2 questions for clarification of my position. These 2 questions, are not biblically based, are they? What I mean is, you don't have any definitive verse of scripture that does say these ministries will end upon the death of the Apostles do you? 1) Do you believe this passage is saying that there is a need for more/new apostles and prophets in the church other then what we know of in Scripture? answer "YES" On the grounds of what This Scripture Does Say,. (" The 5 fold ministry, for the edification of the church, should not cease to exist, until the return of Christ"). 2) (i.e. there are apostles and prophets in the Church today)? answer This one is a little bit harder to answer. To start with, I asked a question that no one has answered yet, so I will attempt to do so myself. "This belief called "The Apostolic Age" which has been put forth, as the reason for the ending of the Gifts of the Spirit". "Just where did the teaching called "The Apostolic Age" originate?" My answer is the origin of this doctrine, comes directly from the Catholic Church, which in turn raises another question. Why would we as Protestant Religions follow what the Catholic Church says, when we do not follow anything else they say? We are called PROTEST - ANT meaning we protest against the Catholic Church, and it's teachings. OK, now to the answer to your second question. Because of this doctrine that has been incorperated into Protestantism, and the fragmentation of the Protestant religions today, "No" I don't know of anybody that is ,or could be called, an Apostle, or Prophet. But that does not mean that God does not have these people waiting in the wings, waiting for His Church to open there eyes to these ministries, and the importance of them to the Body of Christ, another question arises, Where is the body of Christ, which religion constitutes this body. Because verse 13 of Eph. 4 makes it perfectly clear. 13) (Till we all come in the unity of the faith), (and of the knowledge of the Son of God), (unto a perfect man), (unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ): When this fragmentation of the Body of Christ ends, and we do come together IN the UNITY of the FAITH. Then, and only then, will we be heading in the right direction, which is directly into the loving arms of Jesus Christ. Now I ask of you to please, declare your position. In the Love of Jesus Nevvvvine |
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37 | Am I ignorant | 1 Cor 12:1 | Nevvvvine | 212054 | ||
Hi all: I will just do it this way, Can anyone answer the question, Where did the doctrine of "The Apostolic Age" come from, where did it originate, who put it forth as doctrine first? God Bless Nevvvvine |
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38 | Am I ignorant | 1 Cor 12:1 | Nevvvvine | 212074 | ||
Hi CDBJ: You have made the statement. "what is the prerequisite to be an apostle and could there be a person alive to fulfill it?" Then you go on, to use this verse, as the prerequisit! Acts 1:20-22 Verse 22 puts a halt to the possibility. “a witness with us of his resurrection” A question for you. Was Paul, an Apostle (Acts 14:14) Or Barnabas (Acts 14:14; Or Silas which is Silvanus (1 Thess. 1:1, 2:6) Or Timothy (1 Thess. 1:1, 2:6) Or Apollos (1 Cor.4:6 and 9) Or Titus (2 Cor.23) Or Andronicus (Rom.16:7) Or Junia (Rom.16:7) Or James (Gal.1:19) Or Epaphroditus (Phil. 2:25, ? Did all of these men listed, also know the Lord, following Him in His ministry, from the beginning, being “a witness with us of his resurrection” as you have stated, fulfilling the Prerequisit to be an Apostle? As you believe, was the evident Qualfication for one to become an Apostle? Did all of these men, die off within the 1 Century of the Church? You close by saying. 1) Even if there were apostles, they couldn’t improve on God’s "completed Cannon of Scripture" 2) or don’t you believe that God’s perfect written Word is totally sufficient coupled with the working of God the Holy Spirit? My answer 1) Who has put forth the belief, that just because there would be Apostles in in the church today, that there would automatically be a changing of, or additions made to "The Completed Cannon of Scripture? That belief goes far beyond anything anyone has stated, it also goes beyond anything that Scripture teaches on the subject of Apostles in the Church. It seems as though you are mixing the Ministeries of the Apostle, and Prophet together. Thereby claming, anything that person may say, or write would become a "New Cannon" to the Church. 2) Look at (1 Cor.14) Then tell me "WHO" is the "Apostle" talking to. (The Church, or other Apostles?) If he is talking to the believers in the Corinthian Church ie, "to Us" then that Ministry should still be in the Church, for the Edification of the Church. Please define for us "Prophesy" in respect to the use of the word in 1 Cor. 14 showing where the "Prophesy" would change, or should be added to the "Cannon of Scripture". Why are only the first 2 of the 5 fold ministry ended? Are not all of the 5 needed for the Edification of the Church? If your reasioning is correct, then all five must end at the same time, otherwise " Apostles, and Prophets", become a catigory unto themselve, and not being a part of the 5 as believed. ie, "The Apostolic Age" Is the church also to go through "The Evagilistic Age"? Then "The "Pastor Age"? Lastly "The Teacher Age"? You say were in "The Church Age" just what does that signify, where we are in Church History? God Bless Nevvvvine |
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39 | Am I ignorant | 1 Cor 12:1 | Nevvvvine | 212089 | ||
Hi Val: How do we get from, Ministery, to Office. Are they synominious? You have quoted "There is no continuity of the office of an apostle since in no place were the churches instructed to ordain apostles". by "Spiro Zodiates, Th.D." Does he also say there is no continuity for the other 4 Ministeries, (Offices). to "Ordain them". Therefore those "OFFICES" should have ended also. Right? As I have stated before, we cannot look at Apostles, and Prophets as seperate from the 5 fold ministery, ("Unique") in some way, all of the 5 were listed in the Bible together, for a specific purpose, in relation to each other, for the ongoing ministry to the Church. ERGO - - - If one Ministry ends, all must therefore end, on the grounds, they are inter-related. Eph 4:11,12 11) And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12) For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: You have attempted to make the point that all of the twelve apostles were called specifically by Christ. They lost one, Judas. Then Paul is specifically called by Christ. OK, your right, all those named were specifically called by Christ but where does Matthias come in (Acts 1:25,26) he was the one that took up the ministry, which was vacated by JUDAS, not PAUL.. Was there a specific calling of Matthias by Christ, as it was with the 12, or even Paul? In Gods Love Nevvvvine |
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40 | Am I ignorant | 1 Cor 12:1 | Nevvvvine | 212092 | ||
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