Results 421 - 440 of 1443
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Results from: Notes Author: Emmaus Ordered by Verse |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
421 | Adam and Eve, eternal security? | Gen 2:16 | Emmaus | 31337 | ||
Lionstrong, I would rather says that we have been saved from the consequences of the fall. But, to rephrase the question. Do you think that Adam and Eve thought they could not loose Eden and fellowship with God before the Fall? There is that famous phrase that "pride goeth before the fall" paraphraing Prov 16:18. Is presumption a form of pride? And is that not what Paul in various passsages warns us against in regard to our attitude toward our justification even by grace? Emmaus |
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422 | Adam and Eve, no fall from grace? | Gen 2:16 | Emmaus | 31725 | ||
Ambiguous grace. Whatever happened to simple "unmerited favor"? Suddenly we have to qualify for it by sinning. Now there is some strange "works rightousness." Emmaus |
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423 | Adam and Eve, no fall from grace? | Gen 2:16 | Emmaus | 31857 | ||
Lionstrong, You miss my point entirely. It is this. Adam and Eve were created by God in a state of grace or justice before God. They lost that grace or justice through their sin and the fall. Jesus' saving grace is a restoration of that same grace that makes us just before God. It is called by some sanctifying grace, the grace that makes us holy and able to be in God's presence. It is the grace that is the very life of God in us. If Adam and Eve had that grace and lost it through free will, how can we say that we can not loose it in the same manner by a free will rejection just as they did? Unless Jesus has destroyed our free will in the restoration of grace. I still say your version is tanatmount to saying we have to sin in order to merit sanctifying grace and so is a wierd type of works righteousness. Adam and Eve did not merit the original sanctifying grace and neither do we the same sanctifying grace that is restored to us by Jesus and by which we are justified and saved. I guess we are just talking past each other here. I think I will let the matter rest, having made my point as clearly as I can. Emmaus |
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424 | Why did GOD make woman from the mans rib | Gen 2:23 | Emmaus | 138789 | ||
Mommapbs, Something of a related tangent. You may find this article on "The Theology of the Body" of interest along with some of the books by the same author. http://www.christopherwest.com/article13.htm Emmaus |
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425 | Forbidden fruit represents sex? | Gen 3:1 | Emmaus | 88002 | ||
Just Read Mark, I think you are n the right track in your remarks. Emmaus |
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426 | Who created evil? | Gen 3:1 | Emmaus | 93046 | ||
Sal, One of the basic attributes of God is that he does not need anything. That would include evil. That being said the problem of evil in the world is one of the great mysteries beyond our full apprehension in this life. Emmaus |
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427 | Who created evil? | Gen 3:1 | Emmaus | 93047 | ||
Sal, Here are a few teachings on evil. 309. "If God the Father almighty, the Creator of the ordered and good world, cares for all his creatures, why does EVIL exist? To this question, as pressing as it is unavoidable and as painful as it is mysterious, no quick answer will suffice. Only Christian faith as a whole constitutes the answer to this question: the goodness of creation, the drama of sin and the patient love of God who comes to meet man by his covenants, the redemptive Incarnation of his Son, his gift of the Spirit, his gathering of the Church, the power of the sacraments and his call to a blessed life to which free creatures are invited to consent in advance, but from which, by a terrible mystery, they can also turn away in advance. There is not a single aspect of the Christian message that is not in part an answer to the question of EVIL. " 310. "But why did God not create a world so perfect that no EVIL could exist in it? With infinite power God could always create something better.[Cf. St. Thomas Aquinas, STh I, 25, 6.] But with infinite wisdom and goodness God freely willed to create a world 'in a state of journeying' towards its ultimate perfection. In God's plan this process of becoming involves the appearance of certain beings and the disappearance of others, the existence of the more perfect alongside the less perfect, both constructive and destructive forces of nature. With physical good there exists also physical EVIL as long as creation has not reached perfection.[Cf. St. Thomas Aquinas, SCG III, 71.]" 311. "Angels and men, as intelligent and free creatures, have to journey toward their ultimate destinies by their free choice and preferential love. They can therefore go astray. Indeed, they have sinned. Thus has moral EVIL, incommensurably more harmful than physical EVIL, entered the world. God is in no way, directly or indirectly, the cause of moral EVIL.[Cf. St. Augustine, De libero arbitrio I, 1, 2: PL 32, 1221- 1223; St.Thomas Aquinas, STh I-II, 79, 1.] He permits it, however, because he respects the freedom of his creatures and, mysteriously, knows how to derive good from it: For almighty God. . ., because he is supremely good, would never allow any EVIL whatsoever to exist in his works if he were not so all-powerful and good as to cause good to emerge from EVIL itself.[St. Augustine, Enchiridion II, 3: PL 40, 236.] " 312. "In time we can discover that God in his almighty providence can bring a good from the consequences of an EVIL, even a moral EVIL, caused by his creatures: 'It was not you', said Joseph to his brothers, 'who sent me here, but God. . . You meant EVIL against me; but God meant it for good, to bring it about that many people should be kept alive.'[Gen 45:8; Gen 50:20; cf. Tob 2:12 (Vulgate).] From the greatest moral EVIL ever committed - the rejection and murder of God's only Son, caused by the sins of all men - God, by his grace that 'abounded all the more',[Cf. Rom 5:20 .] brought the greatest of goods: the glorification of Christ and our redemption. But for all that, EVIL never becomes a good." The Catechism of the Catholic Church |
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428 | Who created evil? | Gen 3:1 | Emmaus | 93048 | ||
Sal, And a little more teaching on evil and Providence. PROVIDENCE 314. "We firmly believe that God is master of the world and of its history. But the ways of his providence are often unknown to us. Only at the end, when our partial knowledge ceases, when we see God 'face to face',[1 Cor 13:12 .] will we fully know the ways by which - even through the dramas of EVIL and sin - God has guided his creation to that definitive sabbath rest[Cf. Gen 2:2 .] for which he created heaven and earth." 324. "The fact that God permits physical and even moral EVIL is a mystery that God illuminates by his Son Jesus Christ who died and rose to vanquish EVIL. Faith gives us the certainty that God would not permit an EVIL if he did not cause a good to come from that very EVIL, by ways that we shall fully know only in eternal life. " 385. "God is infinitely good and all his works are good. Yet no one can escape the experience of suffering or the evils in nature which seem to be linked to the limitations proper to creatures: and above all to the question of moral EVIL. Where does EVIL come from? 'I sought whence EVIL comes and there was no solution', said St. Augustine,[St. Augustine, Conf. 7, 7, 11: PL 32, 739.] and his own painful quest would only be resolved by his conversion to the living God. For 'the mystery of lawlessness' is clarified only in the light of the 'mystery of our religion'.[2 Th 2:7 ; 1 Tim 3:16 .] The revelation of divine love in Christ manifested at the same time the extent of EVIL and the superabundance of grace.[Cf. Rom 5:20 .] We must therefore approach the question of the origin of EVIL by fixing the eyes of our faith on him who alone is its conqueror.[Cf. Lk 11:21-22 ; Jn 16:11 ; 1Jn 3:8 .]" 386. "Sin is present in human history; any attempt to ignore it or to give this dark reality other names would be futile. To try to understand what sin is, one must first recognize the profound relation of man to God, for only in this relationship is the EVIL of sin unmasked in its true identity as humanity's rejection of God and opposition to him, even as it continues to weigh heavy on human life and history. " 391. "Behind the disobedient choice of our first parents lurks a seductive voice, opposed to God, which makes them fall into death out of envy.[Cf. Gen 3:1-5 ; Wis 2:24 .] Scripture and the Church's Tradition see in this being a fallen angel, called 'Satan' or the 'devil'.[Cf Jn 8:44 ; Rev 12:9.] The Church teaches that Satan was at first a good angel, made by God: 'The devil and the other demons were indeed created naturally good by God, but they became EVIL by their own doing.'[Lateran Council IV (1215): DS 800.]" 396. "God created man in his image and established him in his friendship. A spiritual creature, man can live this friendship only in free submission to God. The prohibition against eating 'of the tree of the knowledge of good and EVIL' spells this out: 'for in the day that you eat of it, you shall die.'[Gen 2:17 .] The 'tree of the knowledge of good and EVIL'[Gen 2:17 .] symbolically evokes the insurmountable limits that man, being a creature, must freely recognize and respect with trust. Man is dependent on his Creator, and subject to the laws of creation and to the moral norms that govern the use of freedom." The Catechism of the Catholic Church |
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429 | Who created evil? | Gen 3:1 | Emmaus | 93056 | ||
Sal, I made two other posts intended for you, but I think I misteakenly attached them to one of John Reformed's post to you. Emmaus |
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430 | Why did Eve orginally leave the garden? | Gen 3:1 | Emmaus | 93985 | ||
Tom, I follow your reasoning, but do not agree that it rules out the standard interpretation. I work in a Courthouse. Often in the hallways I am appraoched and asked "do you work here?" and other times "do you work in the Courthouse?". In both situations I am in the courthouse with my questioner. When speaking to someone asking for information or guidance on a particular matter I may says "in the Courthouse we do" or "do not" or "the Courthouse doesn't have" or any number of variations of that phrase. I would agree that Eve may or may not have been at the tree, but not that she was not in the Garden. Adam was definitely there when she took the bite. One thing that I think can be ascertained from the language of Genesis is that Adam was not doing his job as the "guard-ener". In Genesis 2:15 the word for "keep" is shamar, which carries a distinct meaning "to guard" implying the need to ward off potential intruder. The first sin, in a sense, may have been Adam's sin of ommission in not confronting the threat from the Serpent in the Garden which God had entrusted to his care and protection along with his mate. Emmaus |
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431 | Why did Eve orginally leave the garden? | Gen 3:1 | Emmaus | 94033 | ||
DL5, I don't believe they did leave the Garden until they were cast out in Genesis 3:23-24. Emmaus |
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432 | Why did Eve orginally leave the garden? | Gen 3:1 | Emmaus | 99468 | ||
John, And here I was thinking it reflected the theology of St. Paul in 1 Timothy 2:12-14. Emmaus |
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433 | Why did Eve orginally leave the garden? | Gen 3:1 | Emmaus | 99502 | ||
John, Thank you for your concern and admonisions. The theory of course is not my own, nor was I denying that Eve sinned. If it is some feminist doctrine as you suggest, then I like Eve was deceived unknowingly:-). My point was that sin is first conceived in the heart before it is acted out as James points out James 1:15 "Then when lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death." So when did Eve really sin, when she first thought about it or when she took the bite? And did Adam not intervene because he was thinking the same thing or because he was afraid of the serpent? We really don't know. I was speculating. You notice that my comment said "so in a sense" the first sin may have been... It was all connected to the actual sin of eating the forbidden fruit. I am not trying to establish new doctrine. I was thinking out loud "in a sense." Would you care to speculate on why Adam and Eve failed to obey the command to "be fruitful and multiply" until after they were evicted from the Garden and what that may imply? The mystery of sin, especially the first sin, is something I doubt we will ever fully understand in all its subtleties this side of eternity. I find these details are sometimes interesting to meditate upon. It helps one understand how sin operates in one's own life. Emmaus |
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434 | Why did Eve orginally leave the garden? | Gen 3:1 | Emmaus | 99511 | ||
John, "I don't think that speculation is necessarily wrong when pondering the deep things of God. It may be a means by which The Holy Spirit leads to the truth. But, caution should be exercised lest we drift from from the foundation laid by the Apostles. The Word is our anchor and as such it keeps us from the rocky shoals of heresy." An interesting and truthful statement. But sometimes the anchor of the written Word does get cut loose from the foundation (1 Tim 3:15) laid by the Apostles and Christ and then people are often mislead by their private interpretations of what should be an anchor. But that, as they say, is a whole nother story. Emmaus |
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435 | Why did Eve orginally leave the garden? | Gen 3:1 | Emmaus | 99522 | ||
John, Of course by definition we not agree on eccelsiology, although we may agree on some points, but I see no profit in going there. As I recall the 1 Tim 3:15 passage is traditionally translated as "pillar and foundation." Do you think it is the same Greek word translated foundation in other passages? I wonder why the translators chose "support" in this passage rather than "foundation." Perhaps it was their view of ecclesiology. Emmaus |
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436 | Were Eve's desires sinful? | Gen 3:6 | Emmaus | 92789 | ||
Lionstrong, I may digress a little, but this quote about temptation from an article I read today came to mind as I read your post. "If anything, the increasingly materialistic and individualistic values of the secular culture have permeated American religion more than they have waged war on it, and their strategy has earned them a victory that is all the more impressive because of the extent to which even professed believers appear to take the claims of materialism and individualism as incontestable. Saint Jean Vianney once wrote that the real problem with temptation was less the difficulty of resisting it than that of recognizing it, or, to rephrase slightly, our greatest difficulty in combating the temptations of the world derives from our growing inability to see sin for what it is and hence to see the desire to engage in it as a temptation to be resisted." Elizabeth Fox-Genovese Emmaus |
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437 | Creation, feminism, and equality. Oh my! | Gen 3:15 | Emmaus | 65940 | ||
phruubeljiie Think more of the Whore of Babylon is to the AntiChrist, as to the Church, the Bride of Christ is to Christ. The woman in Revelation 12 also represents the Church and Israel as well as Mary who in Catholic theology also symbolizes the Church and the fulfillment of Isreal and the concept of "daughter Zion" in the Old Testament. The devil (evil) always presents a counterfeit of the good. He presents himself as an "angel of light," (2 Corinthians 11:14) when in fact he is the prince of darkness. The essence of temptation is to present an option that in itself seems appealing and good, but in reality is evil because it takes the place of the greater fgood that God has in mind for us. Pick a subject good created by God; food, sex, medicinal drugs, etc.: when taken out of their proper God given context they can still appear good and appealing but in fact be sin, such as gluttony, fornication, drug addiction, etc. The tempter never says "Let's go get into trouble!" He always presents it as "Lets have some fun! It won't hurt anybody." Gen 3:1-7 Emmaus |
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438 | Creation, feminism, and equality. Oh my! | Gen 3:15 | Emmaus | 65975 | ||
phruubeljiie, On the question of gender issues, you may find the article titled: Why God is Father, Not Mother, at this link interesting: http://www.catholic.net/rcc/Periodicals/Faith/Jul-Aug99/God2.html Emmaus |
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439 | How to compare Genesis 3 with John 19 ? | Gen 3:15 | Emmaus | 80335 | ||
I was thinking about some more specific comparisons of the details. What do you think? Emmaus |
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440 | How to compare Genesis 3 with John 19 ? | Gen 3:15 | Emmaus | 80360 | ||
Like the Tree of Life for example. One in the Garden of Eden, one on Calvary. Can you see any others? | ||||||
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