Subject: what happens when we die |
Bible Note: A note to Jasper72. You preface your post about “These are verses of what will happen on JUDGEMENT DAY.” May I kindly say you are misusing Scriptures by applying them to people and times that is incorrect. In the heading question you say: “where will those of us who are saved go?” and use Lk. 16:19 as applying to the present assembly of Christ. The passage has nothing to do with us who’s citizenship is already in heaven which is not a metaphor. Paul does not use such divisive teaching. He said of his teaching to the Corinthian church (2 Cor. 1:13): “...our dealings with you, have been absolutely aboveboard and sincere before God. They have not been marked by any worldly wisdom, but by the grace of God. Our letters to you have no double meaning-they mean just what you understand them to mean when you read them” (Phillips translation). “…we mean by our letters nothing else than what you read in them and understand us to mean” (Knox translation). In the passage from Lk. 16:19 the Lord was speaking to Israel about those saved and preserved in Hades before His payment for their sins. They removed and taken to heaven with the Lord when He ascended Zech. 9:11. Technically speaking, according to Zech. 9:11 and Heb. 9:15-17 there was no deliverance from Hades or admission into heaven until after the cross where propitiation for sins was made. Paul speaks of when the Lord took those in paradise to heaven with Him when He ascended to heaven after His resurrection: When He ascended on high, He led captivity captive, and gave gifts to men." (Now this, "He ascended"--what does it mean but that He also first descended into the lower parts of the earth? He who descended is also the One who ascended far above all the heavens, that He might fill all things.) And He Himself gave some [to be] apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ (Eph. 4:8-12). Your use passages from what is called the Gospels that doen’t apply to us. That also includes your listings from Peter and the Revelation which were all written to Jews. They are about Israel and the Gentiles in and earthly kingdom from heaven. The Lord and disciples were offering the Kingdom from Heaven before and after the cross before the beginning of the present Dispensation of Grace given to Paul. We are a heavenly people who will return with the Lord and with Him judge the world and angles (1 Cor. 6:2-3). The only passages you used that apply to us were written by Paul after the Jews had rejected Christ a second time. We have already been judged and died with Christ and with Him born of the Spirit and raised from the dead never to die anymore Rom. 6:3-11, Heb. 9:28. “…Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes” (Rom. 10:4). “…who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee” (2 Cor. 1:22). “…and do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption” (Eph. 4:32). Your problem Jasper is the New covenant (Testament) does not begin until the book of Acts, and the present assembly of Christ and Dispensation of Grace began with Paul in Acts 13:2,46-47. The 12 apostles had nothing to do with the establishment of the present church or else Paul didn’t know what he was talking about (Eph. 3:1-9). Three times Paul said his gospel was a mystery (hidden) before revealed to him directly by the Lord. The Lord could not be speaking anywhere about the church or else Paul was mistaken when he said his gospel and the rapture was a mystery unrevealed before him. The Ephesians letter was written in AD 61, or 11 years after the Holy Spirit sent Paul to Jerusalem to explain his gospel to the apostles before him (Gal. 2:2,7-9). The Gentile churches begun by the Apostle Paul were unknown by the 12. The rapture was also a mystery because apart from the church, no other group is to be caught up into heaven. That is because ours is a heavenly home and citizenship, and explains why no one other than Paul mentions anything about the rapture. Paul said in Rom. 16:25; Eph. 3:4-5; Col. 1:24-27 that his gospel was a mystery to all the other apostles until he explained it to them in Gal. chap. 2:2,7-9 as already mentioned. I hope Jasper that I have not offended you or anyone by my words. I know I have raised questions by many with some of my remarks. But please let me know if anything I have said needs qualifications. In His grace Movingon |