Bible (Archive 2)

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Bible Question (short): Reply: "Oneness and the word "person"

Question (full): Four Important Aids To Understanding:

From the outset of this discussion, let me emphasize four important points. If we understand these clearly, most seemingly difficult verses of Scripture become readily explainable.

(1) When we see a plural (especially a duality) used in reference to Jesus, we must think of the humanity and deity of Jesus Christ. There is a real duality, but it is a distinction between Spirit and flesh, not a distinction of persons in God.

(2) When we read a difficult passage relative to Jesus, we should ask if it describes Him in His role as God or in His role as man, or both. Does He speak as God or as man in this instance? Remember that Jesus has a dual nature like no one else ever has had.

(3) When we see a plural in relation to God, we must view it as a plurality of roles or relationships to mankind, not a plurality of persons.

(4) We should remember that the New Testament writers had no conception of the doctrine of the trinity, which was still far in the future at the time they wrote Scripture. They came from a strict monotheistic Jewish background; one God was not an issue with them at all. Some passages may seem "trinitarian" to us at first glance because trinitarians through the centuries have used them and interpreted them according to their doctrine. However, to the Early Church, who had no concept of the future doctrine of the trinity, these same passages were very normal, ordinary, and readily understandable in their perception of the mighty God in Christ. To them there was no thought of contradicting strict monotheism and the deity of Jesus.

With these four points in mind, let us turn to some specific passages of Scripture. Keep in mind that I'm limited to how much I can type on this forum.

The Prayers Of Christ

Do the prayers of Christ indicate a distinction of persons between Jesus and the Father? No. On the contrary, His praying indicates a distinction between the Son of God and God. Jesus prayed in His humanity, not in His deity. If the prayers of Jesus demonstrate that the divine nature of Jesus is different than the Father, then Jesus is inferior to the Father in deity. In other words, if Jesus prayed as God then His position in the Godhead would be somehow inferior to the other "persons." This one example effectively destroys the concept of a trinity of co-equal persons.

How can God pray and still be God? By definition, God in His omnipotence has no need to pray, and in His oneness has no other to whom He can pray. If the prayers of Jesus prove there are two persons in the Godhead, then one of those persons is subordinate to the other and therefore not fully or truly God.

What, then, is the explanation of the prayers of Christ? It can only be that the human nature of Jesus prayed to the eternal Spirit of God. The divine nature did not need help; only the human nature did. As Jesus said at the Garden of Gethsemane, "The spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak" (Matthew 26:41). Hebrews 5:7 makes it clear that Jesus needed to pray only during "the days of his flesh." During the prayer at Gethsemane, the human will submitted itself to the divine will. Through prayer His human nature learned to submit and be obedient to the Spirit of God (Philippians 2:8; Hebrews 5:7-8). This was not a struggle between two divine wills, but a struggle between the human and divine wills in Jesus. As a man Jesus submitted Himself to and received strength from the Spirit of God.

Some may object to this explanation, contending that it means Jesus prayed to Himself. However, you must realize that, unlike any other human being, Jesus had two perfect and complete natures - humanity and divinity. What would be absurd or impossible for an ordinary man is not so strange with Jesus. We do not say Jesus prayed to Himself, for that incorrectly implies Jesus had only one nature like ordinary men. Rather, we say the human nature of Jesus prayed to the divine Spirit of Jesus that dwelt in the man.

The choice is simple. Either Jesus as God prayed to the Father or Jesus as man prayed to the Father. If the former were true, then we have a form of subordinationism or Arianism in which one person in the Godhead is inferior to, not co-equal with, another person in the Godhead. This contradicts the biblical concept of one God, the full deity of Jesus, and the omnipotence of God. If the second alternative is correct, and we believe that it is, then no distinction of persons in the Godhead exists. The only distinction is between humanity and divinity, not between God and God.

Well, I think all you get the point that the doctrine of 3 persons in the Godhead is from the pits of Hell, and is a lie. I pray that each of you receive revelation of who Jesus really is.

Together For Truth,
Caston Smith -UPCI

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