Hebrews

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NASB	Hebrews 6:4 For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
AMPLIFIED 2015 2015	Hebrews 6:4 For [it is impossible to restore to repentance] those who have once been enlightened [spiritually] and who have tasted and consciously experienced the heavenly gift and have shared in the Holy Spirit,

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Subject: True fact of future sin

Bible Note: EdB,

I have no problem with you arguing that a person can loose their salvation. I think you are wrong, but I think this forum is a place where you out to be able to discuss that position from scripture if you wish. So don't think I'm objecting to that. But you are mistaken when you think the only people who disagree on Heb 6:4-6 are calvinists. I wrote a paper on this for a Ph.D. seminar, and then I had to give a public defense against the brutal onslaught to my stance. Which does not make me an expert, but it ought to lead credence when I tell you it is hotly contested from many many views. I'm merely letting you know that throwing out "Heb 6:4-6" isn't like throwing out some clear passage where everybody looks at it and says, "oh, that is very plain."

I assure you have thought carefully about the passage, and I don't agree with your interpretation. Now I may well be wrong. But all I can say is that if I am wrong then I am honestly wrong. I'm not playing games with it to make it say what I want to say.

Finally, I am extremely confident that Doc does not think the quotes from men trumps scripture. He absolutely agrees that scripture is the final measure of truth from which we ought to judge all sstatements. What's more, I'm willing to bet that every single man he has quoted also agrees with that. NOBODY is suggesting that quotes from men trump scripture. But quotes have their value. Not a value of defining what we believe, but there is some value to seeing that Christians throughout history have held to a certain position. And there is also value in knowing when a position has been debated throughout history. Further sometimes people of the past have thought deeply and then stated things in ways much more clear and compelling than we could ever manage. This is valuable too. Doc is not asserting that things are true BECAUSE certain men spoke it. He is simply sharing things he believes were always true, but somewhere throughout the history of the church somebody said it in a particularly edifying way. That's ok. I would equally welcome you quoting great Christians from the past who hold to your view. I would guess John Wesley would be a good place to start as he was opposed to the calvinistic viewpoint and he was a true treasure from Christian history. And I promise, none of us will think you are suggesting something is true simply because John Wesley said it.

In Christ, Beja

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Hebrews