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NASB | 2 Corinthians 5:2 For indeed in this house we groan, longing to be clothed with our dwelling from heaven, |
AMPLIFIED 2015 | 2 Corinthians 5:2 For indeed in this house we groan, longing to be clothed with our [immortal, eternal] celestial dwelling, |
Subject: Eternal in the Heavens |
Bible Note: Doc, I have simply quoted Scripture, and made brief comments showing my understanding of those texts. The presupposition that exists in my post is that Scripture is at once correct and harmonious. I presuppose that the correct hermeneutic is the “grammatico-historical” style (as I believe it is referred to), and that Scripture is intended by God to declare a certain and specific truth, that is knowable in the customary ways that we understand language in its variety of forms. While you appear to disagree with the doctrine I have described, I want to be perfectly clear that I am simply showing what the Bible says to the best of my understanding, based on the texts as I have presented. I am hoping that you will be able to separate my statements from statements made by others, and respond to mine, should you wish to, on their own merit, according to the text of Scripture. I will agree with you to stipulate that neither you nor I speak for “all Christianity”, and that we are both simply representing our own views, unless we are actually stating that we are presenting the views of another whom we may or may not agree with. Let’s be sure it’s on the record: Some people have different views on many and varied matters. Were you thinking that each of us should append this to each of our posts? Let’s say, for the sake of argument that I came to Scripture with a presupposition concerning its interpretation. My presupposition would not change what Scripture actually said, now would it? Therefore, we should be able to determine the truthfulness of a doctrine by seeing if it matches what Scripture actually says. The presupposition, should it exist, is to be judged according to Scripture. If it is found to agree with Scripture, then there is no issue with it. If it does not agree with Scripture, then it is shown to be flawed, and is discarded. The point is, though, that this is an unnecessary introduction to the discussion. Whether there are or not presuppositions does not affect whether the stated doctrine agrees with what Scripture says. The only instance that I can think of in which that is not true is if you hold the presupposition that Scripture is to interpreted according to standards or views that are not found in Scripture, and I do not believe that you think that, or are suggesting that. Whether a doctrine is sound or not should be determined exegetically from the Biblical text, not according to how many or few teach it, whether or not it is taught by someone whom you happen to personally disagree with on other points (or, in this case, appears similar to statements attributed to another), whether or not another person has poorly argued for it, or whether or not the conclusion agrees with previously held conclusions or even prejudice, should it exist. All of these are irrelevant to the discussion, and simply sidetrack from it. Each of these are considered logical fallacies, as I am certain that you understand. Concerning alternate interpretations, my actual request was, “. . . if you disagree with my interpretation of Scripture, perhaps you might demonstrate how those Scriptures actually mean something else, other than what I am saying, using arguments that come from the text . . . “ While you have restated other’s conclusions on this matter, without actual exegesis, well, I was already aware that people hold various views on this, as on pretty much all matters, though not all that you posted seem to disagree. As I review what you have quoted from these other men, I do not see a substantial difference, at least in what I wrote. But please, make no mistake: I believe in the resurrection of the body. Please, let’s end this where it began, as I stated in my initial post: “While we will be resurrected in our own bodies, Job 19 25 "As for me, I know that my Redeemer lives, And at the last He will take His stand on the earth. 26 "Even after my skin is destroyed, Yet from my flesh I shall see God; 27 Whom I myself shall behold, And whom my eyes will see and not another. My heart faints within me! There is nonetheless a great qualitative difference.” I personally believe that everyone who has a Bible has exactly what they need to weigh my words. Love in Christ, Mark |