Prior Book | Prior Chapter | Prior Verse | Next Verse | Next Chapter | Next Book | Viewing NASB and Amplified 2015 | |
NASB | Romans 9:10 And not only this, but there was Rebekah also, when she had conceived twins by one man, our father Isaac; |
AMPLIFIED 2015 | Romans 9:10 And not only that, but this too: Rebekah conceived twin sons by one man [under the same circumstances], by our father Isaac; |
Subject: Jacob and Esau |
Bible Note: Tim: One thing that we have to remember regarding God is that He operates from a perspective outside of time. Jeremiah 18:10 is a very good description from a human perspective how Israel's sin results in judgment. However, if we suggest that God truly changes His mind based on "changes in circumstances," we become Open Theists, saying that God does not know what man will do and will base His plan on what his creation does or doesn't do. Surely you do not think that God really has Plans A, B, C, etc. for the human race. If we are to take Jeremiah 18 as "God will wait and see what we will do," how do you reconcile that with 2 Kings where God has had enough during the reign of Manasseh, and decalres that Israel will be taken into captivity? His grandson Josiah implemented the greatest reforms in the history of Judah, but the biblical text specifically shows that God does not relent and decide not to judge Israel after all. I put to you three questions: 1. Did God know whether Israel whether Israel would repent? 2. If so, when did He know it? 3. What would be the point of Him telling Israel that he would relent if they repented and reject them if they did not? In other words, since he knew that Israel would not repent, why does he give an "if...then" to them? I would assume that you would conlude, as I do, that God was announcing His holy standard, so that they would be without excuse. However, to suggest that God was prepared to re-write his sovereign plan if they would do something would imply that he was not sure how things would turn out for Israel. If Paul writing that the vessels of wrath are "prepared for destruction" does NOT mean that they indeed will be destroyed, as you claim, what does it mean? And one final question comes to mind. How do you fit your Arminian interpretation of Romans 9 with verses 19 and 20? If we are simply asking, "Who is Israel?", why would the hypothetical challenger ask "Who resists his will?" That question one an individual would ask in reference to himself, not an ethnic people. The vessels of mercy are indeed "spiritual Israel." Hoever, notice that the word "vessels" is plural, indicating that a vessel is indeed an individual unit of spitirual Israel. In other words, individual people. The vessels of destruction are not being destroyed NOW, for a very specific purpose. Romans 1 and 2 shows that God is restraining his wrath now. However, there is the "wrath to come," when all those vessels prepared for destruction will indeed be destroyed. ALL of them. --Joe! |