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NASB | Romans 9:10 And not only this, but there was Rebekah also, when she had conceived twins by one man, our father Isaac; |
AMPLIFIED 2015 | Romans 9:10 And not only that, but this too: Rebekah conceived twin sons by one man [under the same circumstances], by our father Isaac; |
Subject: Jacob and Esau |
Bible Note: Greetings Joe! Shame on you! You got me beind the back! :-) Actually, I will be addressing Rom. 9:15-24, probably later today! But, I am not guilty of being "eager to emphasize the "mercy" group and gloss over the "wrath" group almost completely." The fact is, the text (Rom. 9:22) says that God bore with the objects of wrath. No where does it say He destroyed them or condemned them. You also said, "since the "vessels of wrath" and "vessels of mercy" CANNOT be talking about favored and unfavored nations." This statement ignores the context of the Old Testament quote that Paul is using to support his argument. Jer. 18:5-10 says, "Then the word of the LORD came to me: 6 ‘‘O house of Israel, can I not do with you as this potter does?” declares the LORD. ‘‘Like clay in the hand of the potter, so are you in my hand, O house of Israel. 7 If at any time I announce that a nation or kingdom is to be uprooted, torn down and destroyed, 8 and if that nation I warned repents of its evil, then I will relent and not inflict on it the disaster I had planned. 9 And if at another time I announce that a nation or kingdom is to be built up and planted, 10 and if it does evil in my sight and does not obey me, then I will reconsider the good I had intended to do for it." Do we not see nations being discussed? Do we not also see that the fate of the nations is not set in stone, but is dependant upon their response to God? I believe that the "objects of mercy," are those from both Jews and Gentiles who make up the Israel of Promise. So I issue your challenge back to you. I think that viewing Romans 9 as a discussion of the unconditional election and reprobation of individuals involves some "serious mental gymnastics," since all of the quotes and the entire argument has to do with "who is a part of Israel," not "who will be saved." You see this is my problem with the Calvinistic approach to Romans. You must make a lot of assumptions that don't even fit the context of the quotes. None of the quotes deal with salvation. They all deal with God's right to work through individuals and nations to accomplish His goal. His goal is clearly stated in Rom. 11:32, but that is ignored. Which view goes through "mental gymnastics?" I will be posting on Rom. 9:16ff later today. I would definitely appreciate your input! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |