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NASB | John 3:16 ¶ "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. |
AMPLIFIED 2015 | John 3:16 ¶ "For God so [greatly] loved and dearly prized the world, that He [even] gave His [One and] only begotten Son, so that whoever believes and trusts in Him [as Savior] shall not perish, but have eternal life. |
Subject: Created for heaven or hell? |
Bible Note: (Before I begin, let me say: This morning I have read no farther than your post to which I am now replying. I don't even know whether Nolan has already replied to your post. If so, I haven't read it and don't know anything about it. So if I repeat what Nolan or someone else has already stated, it's because I haven't read that far yet and am unaware of it.) proorizo: I am not speaking for Nolan. I speak only for myself. Although you addressed you questions to Nolan, I will take the liberty of answering for myself. After all this is a PUBLIC forum. It is not a discussion group; it is a Forum with a stated purpose. It is very perceptive of you to notice that Nolan did not want to go over what had already been covered once before. It was not covered merely between Nolan and someone else. There was a long, bitter debate that involved many people. No one has any wish to rehash all of that and stir up more strong feelings. We've been all through that. I suppose this is a "Don't bring up what has already been covered" type of message board. You will go to a message board that is productive? What is productive about taking another month to rehash what has already been discussed from every possible angle? In the case of Calvinism vs Arminianism, the only thing a second round of debate would "produce" is more hard feelings -- more heat, but surely no more light. I agree with you, but I don't feel what you said applies to Nolan. Never underestimate what Nolan knows or understands. It is true that many people do not understand Calvinism. It seems that the majority on this forum sure don't understand and apparently don't want to understand the Bible doctrine of election. But I think who understands what is not the issue here. Avoiding another knock-down, drag-out battle over Calvinism is the issue. You don't care to be told to look into the Forum's history. And we do not care to be told once again that which we have already debated endlessly. Nor do we care for more fighting and quarreling here. Does one understand how long it could take you to look into the Forum's history? What about how long it would take for everybody to re-state what they have already stated before? To do so would be very time-consuming for a number of people and in no way productive. As far as I can see, all the Calvinists and all the Arminians do have the same old questions that they ask over and over and over again. The questions are then followed by the same answers over and over again -- answers that apparently neither side is listening to. It is highly unlikely that anyone on either side will post something new on the subject, something that already hasn't been argued to death. In a practical sense, no, we do not have time to go over the same issues every month. We especially do not have time to go over the debate between what I call divine sovereignty and human responsibility. Every possible jot and tittle of this centuries-old debate has already been presented here previously. I do not think anyone has anything against you personally. I know I don't have anything against you. It isn't you, sir, it's the subject. Frankly we are all sick unto death of the quarreling over it. --JVH0212 "In essentials unity, in nonessentials liberty, and in all things charity." |