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NASB | Numbers 33:55 'But if you do not drive out the inhabitants of the land from before you, then it shall come about that those whom you let remain of them will become as pricks in your eyes and as thorns in your sides, and they will trouble you in the land in which you live. |
AMPLIFIED 2015 | Numbers 33:55 'But if you do not drive out the inhabitants of the land from before you, then those you let remain of them will be like pricks in your eyes and like thorns in your sides, and they will attack you in the land in which you live. |
Subject: Why the children? |
Bible Note: Dear Beja, It's difficult to respond to so many questions in one post but I'll try. ALTHOUGH I notice you didn't respond to the scriptures in my previous post as I did to your's. Quoted from Beja... Q1.So you agree that our basic nature is to rebel? That means the problem is not at the level of our actions, but of our very nature or disposition which then leads to our actions. Children have this flaw as much as any man does. As the father of a 3 year old I can assure you of that. As a father and grandfather, I can agree that our kids can be a major pain when they don't get their way. But don't you see, they don't see anything wrong with that screaming, hollering and misbehaving. All they know they're not getting what they consider they gotta have. But later on, maybe as soon 10, 11 or 12 years of age, they begin to put two and two together and see the difference between right and wrong. So this growing and learning is a process through which all of us mankind go, in our maturing. Q2. I deny that adam and eve had this same flaw. I could not tell from your post if you agree with that point. However, if that also is granted then what shall we say? Every one with us are born with the natural inclination to sin and rebel, and that we inherit from Adam. God doesn't create ANYTHING with a sinful or evil nature in it. Don't you see that in the Creation account of Genesis? EVERYTHING Created by God "was good" and He was satisfied with His Creation including His newly created Adam and Eve. BUT they grew in knowledge and learned about the attractiveness of sin and disobeyed God. That's where we ALL go wrong. We ALL violate our conscience. We all look at the options/choices in our lives and weigh the advantages of making the good vs bad decisions. Good decisions almost always include a sacrifice of some kind and thus one child chooses NOT to share his cookie or his toys with his sibling. And on it goes in spite of the teaching and spanking from the parents. The child learns to conceal his decisions and the consequences thereof. Don't you see, the initial birth of a child from God (just like His Creation in the Beginning) is perfectly innocent from all sin. That child has no consciousness about right from wrong; how could anyone argue against this? Q3.And when did Adam obtain this flaw? When he first chose to sin. How can we but say that each and every one of us are cursed with this rebelious and sinful nature as a result of Adam's sin? I tried to explain this above but one has to see that this spirit of rebiliousness varies from one person to another. We all have different parents and different environments from which we learn right and wrong. BUT we can also learn to be clever and get away with our rebellious life for a little while. But sooner or later, either mankind or God will catch up with that person and he will "reap what he sows," either in this life or the one hereafter. Q4.So the end result is that even a newborn infant, because of the sin of Adam is a little sin factory. By nature even that infant is deep down inclined to sin. NO, NO, NO...that's what I've been saying. The child is innocent but he learns to be sinful and rebellious against the good things in life and later on against God's Good Will. Q5.They don't have to wait and make a choice to have that inclination. And is that inclination itself not sinful? Our very disposition is sinful, not merely our actions. This inclination as you're referring to above is true but it doesn't manifest itself in a child with actual intent until his early teens or maybe 11 or 12. He doesn't actually start scheming and hatching "evil" plans to get his way until this stage of his life. This is what I'm trying to get across to you. How can you possibly look into the face of a sweet, innocent two month old baby and call that sweet child evil, down deep inside? God forbid. Please tell me you don't really believe this way. Azure, do you have anything to say about this? Do you have some way of reconciling the conflicting verses I've provided in my previous post? I'm anxiously awaiting such responses from both of you, Beja and Azure. I do hope you and all who are reading might respond with their thoughts. Please do. God bless all of you, Inquisitor |