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NASB | Isaiah 9:6 For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; And the government will rest on His shoulders; And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace. |
AMPLIFIED 2015 | Isaiah 9:6 For to us a Child shall be born, to us a Son shall be given; And the government shall be upon His shoulder, And His name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. [Is 25:1; 40:9-11; Matt 28:18; Luke 2:11] |
Bible Question:
Thank you for your reply. I too do not presume to be all knowing. In fact, at the risk of sounding ignorant, I don't think I've ever heard of Maccabees. I must say that I disagree with your statement that "Jesus is talking about a different peace". You point out that "Though He lived under Roman occupation, Jesus did not involved Himself in any power struggle (John 18:36). And He was very aware of the disciples and their environment (John 12:8 and John 17:9, 15)." You are right - Jesus did not involve himself in any power struggle, and he was aware of the Roman occupation. In fact, these were the very "enemies" that Jesus said the people were to love. (Matt 5:44) In His statement in John 14:27 "my peace I give you, not the peace of this world" Jesus is talking about peace of mind. NLT says "I am leaving you with a gift - peace of mind and heart. And the peace I give isn't like the peace the world gives." This is a comforting statement given to the disciples before Jesus ascention not directed at moral standards or any prohibition or justification for war and should not be used as such. I believe Jesus didn't say much about war specifically because if we, as Christians, are truly to assume the worldview of Jesus, we will not have much need to ask the question, what makes a just war? The gospel of Christ asks "that we feed the hungry, give drink to the thirsty, chothe the naked, welcome the homeless, visit the prisoner, and perform works of mercy. War does all the opposite." - Dorothy Day We are not in Iraq "liberating" the Iraqi people. We are setting up a regime in Iraq, the second largest oil producing nation in the world, that will ultimately serve us, the largest oil consuming nation in the world. Cliche as it is, that is what is happening. This is not liberation, this is imperialism. And yet patriotism calls us to support this imperialistic endeavor while condemning those who question the motives of our nation's leaders. Many of my fellow Christians reference the Word of God in justifying their patriotism while condemning dissent. Somewhere, our ideas of national identity and patriotism have become sifted in with our Christian allegiance to Jesus Christ and His gospel. (The BIG question is "why?") But citizenship in God's kingdom is superior to the Christian's earthly national citizenship. Acts 5:29: "But Peter and the apostles replied, 'We must obey God rather than human authority'." It is true that "All authority has been placed in power by God." (Rom. 13), but do not forget that Jesus himself tells us to "...give to Cesar what is Cesar's. But everything that is God's must be given to God" (Mark 12). That includes our allegiance. I realize that this subject can go around and around, so I ask a new question: If our commitments to Christ do indeed ultimately trump the authority of the nation, then by what criteria would Christians know when the claims of the nation have intruded on the integrity of the Gospel? |
Bible Answer: Nation and Kingdom of God. I understand why the Forum can't get swamped in this kind of discussion. On the other hand, surely it is important for believers to discuss -- in a broader forum than our local church. I'd like to contribute some thoughts. It is interesting how the link between nation and God's Kingdom changes over the course of the Bible. It starts with individual families, then follows the growth of Abraham's descendents into nationhood. The prophets then declare the need for the nation to be faithful. I read Ezekiel this month. Fascinating: here is a prophet speaking to exiles, who have had their identity as a nation quashed. Furthermore, the Temple was desecrated. God, for a time understood as dwelling in the Temple, is seen dramatically as the limitless God of "wheels within wheels." There is still the dream of reinstating the Temple, which finds it's fullness in Revelation's City of God. The identity of "Nation" equalling "God's Chosen" is breaking down. We are, like Ezekiel's original listeners, people in Exile from our true home. Like Jesus, we are creating a counter-culture WITHIN the nations, all over the world, where we live. We should expect to be speaking against our nation, as a prophetic people, loyal to God's call. I believe there is a healthy civic participation -- which is really about loving your neighbour. It is important for churches to participate in the national scene. But identifying strongly with one's nation is problematic and troubling, leading to a distortion of the gospel and clouding of the message of another way. |