Results 61 - 80 of 154
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Author: userdoe220 Ordered by Date |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
61 | When did the day of worship change? | Acts | userdoe220 | 18857 | ||
I have no doubt that Paul worshipped on the Sabbath, but that still does not negate the verse in Acts 20 that has him worshipping on Sunday. Acts 20:7 7 Now on the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul, ready to depart the next day, spoke to them and continued his message until midnight. "OH praise the Lord!, the Bible does validate teh adoration on" Sunday. If the Bible has Paul or any other apostle or church meeting on Sunday one time, that is enough for me to believe it is not a sin—Unless they were publicly rebuked for doing so which did not happen. You still have not commented on two very clear passages on this subject. I am not into playing Bible Verse Ping-pong. 1.) Paul and many other Christians did meet on Saturday 2.) They also met on Sundays as well. These two thoughts can be complimentary and not contradictory if you adopt my view on this issue: As long as you choose one day to honor the Lord, you will be right with God. Lets look at three ways you can approach this issue: 1. If I said that you could only worship on Sunday, I could be proven wrong scripturally. Why? Because there are verses that show the apostles attending the Synagogues on Saturday. 2. If I said that you could only worship on Saturday, I could also be proven wrong because in Acts 20, Paul is meeting together with the church in Ephesus breaking bread and holding a church service on Sunday. 3. However, if I told you that you could worship on Sunday or Saturday because in the N.T. you see apostles worshipping on both of those days, I could not be proven wrong. To use verses and completely ignore other verses that don’t coincide with your beliefs is what I call Bible ping-pong. I have my verse and you have your verse and whenever you pull out your verse I am going to pull out my verse. You have got to reconcile these passages. 1 Cor 16:1-3 16:1 Now about the collection for God's people: Do what I told the Galatian churches to do. 2 On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with his income, saving it up, so that when I come no collections will have to be made. It seems like the custom for the Church of Corinth was to meet on Sunday's as well. Paul never told them they were in violation for "not keeping the Sabbath Law" nor did he tell them they were in sin. Acts 17:2. "As his custom was, Paul went into the synagogue, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures," What was Paul’s purpose for entering the Synagogue? To try and find converts not worship with them—although he might have joined in on the worship service. The whole purpose of recording this passage here and other places in the book of Acts is not to reinforce Sabbath worship, but to show that although Paul was the apostle to the Gentiles, he still sought to win the lost in his old faith to Jesus Christ. I was kind enough to answer your objections and verses you supplied and am really anxious to hear your response. In His name Schwartzkm |
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62 | When did the day of worship change? | Acts | userdoe220 | 18854 | ||
I don't think the sacrificial law was done away with at all...It was perfected in the perfect sacrifice--Jesus. I also believe that the moral law was not done away with. T he question I have...and I don't have a firm answer...is did the Sabbath apply to the ceremonial/sacrificial law or to the moral law? It seems to me that the very nature of the Sabbath worship was ceremonial. |
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63 | When did the day of worship change? | Acts | userdoe220 | 18841 | ||
Let me clear up two points I feel there is a mis-udnerstanding on: 1.) I never said that the New Covenant abolished the Law. There are some within Christendom that believe the Law was abolished I do not. The real issue is what part(s) of the law are applicable to the believer today? Are women suppose to leave their house during their menstrul cycle? If I get into a fight with another man and his wife pulls on my testicals am I alloed to cut off her hand? Do we still observe the various feasts recorded in the O.T.? When was the last time you sacrificed a dove or gave a grain offering? Certainly you can see that some things changed from the time of Moses and the coming of Christ. The real question is, Just how much change occured? Another way to ask the same question is how much of the Law is applicable to the believer today? You tell me I am sinning because I do not hold the Sabbath as binding to the believer. You still never answered the 2 scripture passages I gave you before that I feel gives me liberty to choose that one day a week that I want to honor God and what festivals I am able to participate in. 2.) No one who has studied this issue feels that Sunday replaced the Sabbath. "If you think so, go and tell lies and kill people or even better: dishonour your parents. Or perhaps it gives you freedom to steal?...But remember Rom 3:31 and Matt 5:17 " Of course I feel I cannot do any of the above list of sins and still be a Christian in good standing with God. (I am glad you are qouting N.T. passages so now I do not have to look them up.) The N.T offers plenty of verses that instruct me how to live a holy life before God. But notice that nowhere in the N.T. is Sabbath Worship enforced...Just like there is nowhere in the N.T. that instructs me to continue partcipating in the Levitcal sacrifices. |
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64 | Only seal and horse in same verse Rev6:5 | Bible general Archive 1 | userdoe220 | 18839 | ||
It is amazing the type of nonsense that people dive into. This has made for a very intertaining thread. Could you sum up what his point is? I must have missed it somewhere between the upside down 5 and the cross. |
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65 | When did the day of worship change? | Acts | userdoe220 | 18831 | ||
The pattern did begin in the Book of Acts. Acts 20:7 7 Now on the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul, ready to depart the next day, spoke to them and continued his message until midnight. It appears that Paul had some formal meeting in mind when asking for this offering to be collected. 1 Cor 16:1-3 16:1 Now about the collection for God's people: Do what I told the Galatian churches to do. 2 On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with his income, saving it up, so that when I come no collections will have to be made. |
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66 | When did the day of worship change? | Acts | userdoe220 | 18830 | ||
"Search for yourself in the enciclopedyas" I will provide you with a couple that I own on this subject. Notice the date is not in the 3rd century. ENCYCLOPEDIA BRITANNICA: Sunday, first day of the week; in Christianity, the Lord's Day, the weekly memorial of Jesus Christ's resurrection from the dead. The practice of Christians gathering together for worship on Sunday dates back to apostolic times, but details of the actual development of the custom are not clear. Before the end of the 1st Century AD, the author of Revelation gave the first day its name of the "Lord's Day" (Rev. 1:10). Saint Justin Martyr (c. 100-c. 165), philosopher and defender of the Christian faith, in his writings described the Christians gathered together for worship on the Lord's Day: the gospels or the Old Testament was read, the presiding minister preached a sermon, and the group prayed together and celebrated the Lord's Supper. The emperor Constantine (d. 337), a convert to Christianity, introduced the first civil legislation concerning Sunday in 321, when he decreed that all work should cease on Sunday, except that farmers could work if necessary. This law, aimed at providing time for worship, was followed later in the same century and in subsequent centuries by further restrictions on Sunday activities. (15th edition, vol. 11, pg. 392) ENCYCLOPEDIA AMERICANA: From the apostolic era to the present it has been customary for Christians to assemble for communal Sunday services... Civil laws requiring the observance of Sunday date back at least to Emperor Constantine the Great, who designated Sunday as a legal day of rest and worship in 321. This law, however was not specifically Christian, since Sunday was the day of the sun-god for pagans as well as the Lord's day for Christians. While Constantine thus managed to please the two major religious groups in the Roman empire, numerous later law regulating behavior on Sunday have been avowedly Christian. (Sunday, 1988, pg. 21) HISTORY OF THE CHRISTIAN CHURCH: The celebration of the Lord's Day in memory of the resurrection of Christ dates undoubtedly from the apostolic age. Nothing short of apostolic precedent can account for the universal religious observance in the churches of the second century. There is no dissenting voice. This custom is confirmed by the testimonies of the earliest post-apostolic writers, as Barnabas, Ignatius, and Justin Martyr. (Philip Schaff, , vol. 1, pg. 201-202) HISTORY OF THE CHRISTIAN CHURCH: Hence, the first day was already in the apostolic age honorably designated as "the Lord's Day." ...it appears, therefore, from the New Testament itself, that Sunday was observed as a day of worship, and in special commemoration of the Resurrection, whereby the work of redemption was finished. The universal and uncontradicted Sunday observance in the second century can only be explained by the fact that it has its roots in apostolic practice. (Philip Schaff, , vol. 1, pg. 478-479) NEW SCHAFF HERZOG ENCYCLOPEDIA: The earliest traces of the observance of the first day of the week in remembrance of Christ's resurrection is found in the Pauline period of the Apostolic Age... Sunday was first regulated by civil authority in 321, under Constantine, directing that the day be hallowed and observed appropriately. (Sunday, pg. 145 |
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67 | When did the day of worship change? | Acts | userdoe220 | 18829 | ||
Part II of qoutes from the Fathers. 150AD JUSTIN: There is no other thing for which you blame us, my friends, is there than this? That we do not live according to the Law, nor, are we circumcised in the flesh as your forefathers, nor do we observe the Sabbath as you do. (Dialogue with Trypho 10:1. In verse 3 the Jew Trypho acknowledges that Christians 'do not keep the Sabbath.') · 150AD JUSTIN: We are always together with one another. And for all the things with which we are supplied we bless the Maker of all through his Son Jesus Christ and through his Holy Spirit. And on the day called Sunday there is a gathering together in the same place of all who live in a city or a rural district. (There follows an account of a Christian worship service, which is quoted in VII.2.) We all make our assembly in common on the day of the Sun, since it is the first day, on which God changed the darkness and matter and made the world, and Jesus Christ our Savior arose from the dead on the same day. For they crucified him on the day before Saturn's day, and on the day after (which is the day of the Sun the appeared to his apostles and taught his disciples these things. (Apology, 1, 67:1-3, 7; First Apology, 145 AD, Ante-Nicene Fathers , Vol. 1, pg. 186) · 155 AD Justin Martyr "[W]e too would observe the fleshly circumcision, and the Sabbaths, and in short all the feasts, if we did not know for what reason they were enjoined [on] you--namely, on account of your transgressions and the hardness of your heart. . . . [H]ow is it, Trypho, that we would not observe those rites which do not harm us--I speak of fleshly circumcision and Sabbaths and feasts? . . . God enjoined you [Jews] to keep the Sabbath, and impose on you other precepts for a sign, as I have already said, on account of your unrighteousness and that of your fathers" (Dialogue with Trypho the Jew 18, 21). · 180AD ACTS OF PETER.- Paul had often contended with the Jewish teachers and had confuted them, saying 'it is Christ on whom your fathers laid hands. He abolished their Sabbath and fasts and festivals and circumcision.' (1: I)-2 · 180AD GOSPEL OF PETER: Early in the morning when (he Sabbath dawned, a multitude from Jerusalem and the surrounding country came to see the scaled sepulchre. In the night in which the Lord's day dawned, while the soldiers in pairs for each watch were keeping guard, a great voice came from heaven. [There follows an account of the resurrection. Early in the morning of the Lord's day Mary Magdalene, a disciple of the Lord …. came to the sepulchre. (9:34f.; 12:50f.) · 190AD CLEMENT OF ALEXANDRIA: (in commenting on each of the Ten Commandments and their Christian meaning:) The seventh day is proclaimed a day of rest, preparing by abstention from evil for the Primal day, our true rest. (Ibid. VII. xvi. 138.1) · 190AD CLEMENT OF ALEXANDRIA: He does the commandment according to the Gospel and keeps the Lord's day, whenever he puts away an evil mind . . . glorifying the Lord's resurrection in himself. (Ibid. Vii.xii.76.4) · 190AD CLEMENT OF ALEXANDRIA: Plato prophetically speaks of the Lord's day in the tenth book of the Republic, in these words: 'And when seven days have passed to each of them in the meadow, on the eighth they must go on." (Miscellanies V.xiv.106.2) |
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68 | When did the day of worship change? | Acts | userdoe220 | 18828 | ||
Change happened 3 centuries after Jesus is just not true. I will only include Apostolic Father qoutes in this post prior to the 3rd century. NOtice most of these qoutes are in the 1st/2nd century of the church. I have a whole bunch more but feel this will suffice. · 130AD BARNABAS: Moreover God says to the Jews, 'Your new moons and Sabbaths 1 cannot endure.' You see how he says, 'The present Sabbaths are not acceptable to me, but the Sabbath which I have made in which, when I have rested [heaven: Heb 4] from all things, I will make the beginning of the eighth day which is the beginning of another world.' Wherefore we Christians keep the eighth day for joy, on which also Jesus arose from the dead and when he appeared ascended into heaven. (15:8f, The Epistle of Barnabas, 100 AD, Ante-Nicene Fathers , vol. 1, pg. 147) · 150AD EPISTLE OF THE APOSTLES.- I [Christ] have come into being on the eighth day which is the day of the Lord. (18)1 · 150AD JUSTIN: ...those who have persecuted and do persecute Christ, if they do not repent, shall not inherit anything on the holy mountain. But the Gentiles, who have believed on Him, and have repented of the sins which they have committed, they shall receive the inheritance along with the patriarchs and the prophets, and the just men who are descended from Jacob, even although they neither keep the Sabbath, nor are circumcised, nor observe the feasts. Assuredly they shall receive the holy inheritance of God. (Dialogue With Trypho the Jew, 150-165 AD, Ante-Nicene Fathers , vol. 1, page 207) · 150AD JUSTIN: But if we do not admit this, we shall be liable to fall into foolish opinion, as if it were not the same God who existed in the times of Enoch and all the rest, who neither were circumcised after the flesh, nor observed Sabbaths, nor any other rites, seeing that Moses enjoined such observances... For if there was no need of circumcision before Abraham, or of the observance of Sabbaths, of feasts and sacrifices, before Moses; no more need is there of them now, after that, according to the will of God, Jesus Christ the Son of God has been born without sin, of a virgin sprung from the stock of Abraham. (Dialogue With Trypho the Jew, 150-165 AD, Ante-Nicene Fathers , vol. 1, page 206) · 150AD JUSTIN: But Sunday is the day on which we hold our common assembly, because it is the first day of the week and Jesus our saviour on the same day rose from the dead. (First apology of Justin, Ch 68) · 150AD JUSTIN: Moreover, all those righteous men already mentioned [after mentioning Adam. Abel, Enoch, Lot, Noah, Melchizedek, and Abraham], though they kept no Sabbaths, were pleasing to God; and after them Abraham with all his descendants until Moses... And you [fleshly Jews] were commanded to keep Sabbaths, that you might retain the memorial of God. For His word makes this announcement, saying, "That you may know that I am God who redeemed you." (Dialogue With Trypho the Jew, 150-165 AD, Ante-Nicene Fathers , vol. 1, page 204) · 150AD JUSTIN: The commandment of circumcision, requiring them always to circumcise the children on the eighth day, was a type of the true circumcision by which we are circumcised from error and evil through the resurrection from the dead on the first day of the week of Jesus Christ our Lord. For the first day of the week, although it is the first of all days, yet according to the number of the days in a cycle is called the eighth (while still remaining the first). (Dialogue 41:4) · |
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69 | When did the day of worship change? | Acts | userdoe220 | 18827 | ||
"The change happened 3 centuries after Jesus died. Justinian as emperor established the first sunday law." That is not true at all. I will have to do this in multiple posts becuase there is so much material against what you have just said. Read below |
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70 | When did the day of worship change? | Acts | userdoe220 | 18824 | ||
Please re-read my post. I stated in my post that I would let "other people determine weather it was right or wrong" I was just answering the portion of her question concerning the early history in the church. I guess I will throw a few observations your way on this issue. Of course Jesus worshipped on Saturday--He was a Jew! Moot Point. The question is, are we as belivers under the New Covenant Mandated to worship on one particular day? I would say no. Col 2:16-18 16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or A SABBATH DAY (emphasis mine). 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. 18 Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you for the prize. Such a person goes into great detail about what he has seen, and his unspiritual mind puffs him up with idle notions. - This passage tackles a number of Jewish related issues. Paul was addressing a group of Jews who was attempting to Judiaze the church--make them submit to Jewish customs. I would read this whole book and take a look at the book of Galatians and the Jerusalem council in Acts 15. The Apostles made it abundatly clear that certain things--Like circumcision--was optional for the beliver. To believe otherwise is to deny the plain reading of these passages. I am not sure how much clearer Paul could get on this particular issue but it seems like there are those in Christendom that want to drag us back under the ritual observances of the Law. |
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71 | When did the day of worship change? | Acts | userdoe220 | 18685 | ||
As Christianity spread beyond the borders of Palestine/Israel, the church became increasingly Hellenistic. Up until 65AD the Roman Government treated the church as just another sect of Judaism--Kind of like the Essenses/Pharisees etc. Why did they do this? Because they: 1.) Used Jewish scripture to affirm what they believed about Christ. 2.) Preached a very uniquely Jewish concept of a Messiah. 3.) Spent time in the synagogues—Even Paul would go to the synagogues in the cities he evangelized in the book of Acts and try to persuade them in the truths of Jesus. The one thing I want to say from the start, is the early church was a mix bag of ideologies. There were those in the early church—Marcion comes to mind—that hated anything Jewish; Therefore, I think you would be hard pressed to find anything from Marcion that promoted the Sabbath as the Christians' only alternative to worship. He would not even consider the O.T as being part of the new Christian Canon and many of the Gospels because they contained O.T quotations. But for the most part, very early on in the churches development you see the church focusing more on the Lord’s Day (Sunday) in honor of His resurrection and less on Sabbath worship. You see the pattern beginning in the Book of Acts and by 65 AD most of Christedom was using Sunday exclusively as the Churches’ day of worship. The Didache, which was a document in circulation around 60 AD, already had the church meeting on Sunday’s. “But every Lord's day gather yourselves together, and break bread, and give thanksgiving after having confessed your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure. But let no one who is at odds with his fellow come together with you, until they be reconciled, that your sacrifice may not be profaned. For this is that which was spoken by the Lord: "In every place and time offer to me a pure sacrifice; for I am a great King, says the Lord, and my name is wonderful among the nations."” Although the Didache is not scripture, it does provide us insight into the thought process of the early church in regards to this matter. I think in the church, the closer you got to Jerusalem the more Jewish Christians hung on to Jewish traditions. The further you got away from Jerusalem—and as Rome began to take center stage and Jerusalem lost its importance—the more those traditions were looked at as optional and discarded. I hope this provides a little insight into how the early church viewed this issue. I will let others argue weather the church was right in adopting Sunday or wrong. schwartzkm |
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72 | Let not thy body be a chimney | Bible general Archive 1 | userdoe220 | 18063 | ||
I think David Satcher said that...Surgeon Gerneral | ||||||
73 | Advise on contradictions found in bible | Bible general Archive 1 | userdoe220 | 17578 | ||
[1 Corinthians 15:5] Jesus appeared to the twelve after he rose again. [Mathew 28:16] Jesus appeared to the eleven after he rose again. What the heck. I will answer another one. In Matthew, Judas was not alive when Jesus appeared to the masses. 12 disciples(apostles) minus one (apostle...Judsas)gives you 11(apostles) disciples. In Acts 1 the disciples chose another disciple, Matthias, to replace Judas. Matthias was a witness of the ressurection and therefore constittued the 12th apostle--some debate here. So, Paul could say in 1 cor. 12 that Jesus appeared to the 12--the 12th being matthias. |
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74 | Advise on contradictions found in bible | Bible general Archive 1 | userdoe220 | 17577 | ||
Mathew 27:5] Judas went and hanged himself. [Acts 1:18] Judas fell headlong, and burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out. Serpent handled one, so I will also handle one. Judas did hang himself and Matthew accurately records this event. Luke just adds a little more detail to the account about what happened after Judas hung himself--Rope was cut/or broke, Judas fell down and split open and his insides came out. If you watch old war documentaries, when a person dies their body will fill up with internal body fluid. Eventually, the person’s body will rupture causing his fluids to spill forth. If Judas were hanging for any period of time, this process would be magnified when his body went crashing down to earth. Sorry for the graphic details. These two passages do not contradict each other. A contradiction is when two statements together can't possibly be true. Let me give you an example: Matthew states that Judas hung himself and died. Luke, the author of Acts, states explicitly that Judas did not hang himself. Both statements can’t possibly be true. A number of people bring up "apparent contradictions" without ever asking if the two statements can both be true at the same time! A number passages mentioned in your post definitely fall into this category. In the Gospels the Holy Spirit gave the author’s liberty to add details that they deemed important to the story they were telling. Just because some of the other gospel writers did not feel a particular detail of an event warranted inclusion into their gospel, does not mean the detail did not happen or is a contradiction. schwartzkm |
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75 | ___-trib satisfactory? | Revelation | userdoe220 | 17386 | ||
I would agree with your assessment on the purpose of Revelations: comfort in the midst of persecution. I beleive the main theme of Revelation does apply to us as belivers--and I suspect you do to--things might get bad here on earth, but in the end He will triumph. Got to run schwartzkm |
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76 | ___-trib satisfactory? | Revelation | userdoe220 | 17370 | ||
"Persons who do this are adding to God's word and are in danger of losing their share in the tree of life and the holy city. This is my opinion of what I have read and have studied. May God bless you, Listener." I must be confused and maybe you can clear up what What you mean by this statment? schwartzkm |
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77 | ___-trib satisfactory? | Revelation | userdoe220 | 17369 | ||
For some reason my name is not showing up in the reply? So, I will append my name to the end of the document. schwartzkm |
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78 | ___-trib satisfactory? | Revelation | userdoe220 | 17368 | ||
I thought I did place my name in the reply. | ||||||
79 | ___-trib satisfactory? | Revelation | userdoe220 | 17358 | ||
I don't recall anyone from any camp teaching that 1 Thess 4:13-18 or Matt 24 refer to the millenial reign of Christ. So you would be right by all camps in asserting that I thess 4 and Matt 24 do not teach the millinial reign of Christ. P.S. why do you feel our salvation is determined by our belief in end-time events? |
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80 | Can I trust this Pastor? | Hebrews | userdoe220 | 16920 | ||
I don't think this alone should be a test as to weather you should trust him or not. I know a number of fine Bible teachers who firmly beleive that Paul wrote Hebrews. | ||||||
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