Results 61 - 75 of 75
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Author: userdoe214 Ordered by Date |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
61 | Is the Word-Faith movement biblical ? | John 10:27 | userdoe214 | 8150 | ||
I hope I'm not the only one giving a standing ovation. mrk |
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62 | Is the Word-Faith movement biblical ? | John 10:27 | userdoe214 | 8142 | ||
Dear Joe, I'm not so simple minded as to disagree with you, and I did not (reread if necessary) scoff at anyone possessing the spiritual gift of discernment. The person raising the question obviously did not have that gift or is not yet confident in that gift which is in him (else he would not be asking), so I was saying leave it to God--who is the distributor of gifts to the Church. Why should such a person waste their time trying to figure out why he feels uncomfortable in the church environment, when he probably has the Voice of God in his heart saying, "Time to move my son." And if such a voice were speaking to him, is not that the basis of discernment? Am I wrong to defer to God in such a situation? Does that make me a false prophet? I happen to love my brothers in the "Faith" Movement, even though I reject many of their leaders strange teachings. I am certainly not going to speak evil of a brother, just to give someone the courage to do what I trust God is already telling them to do. And I'd much rather encourage a person to obey the subtleties of conscience than to drag them into the dirty affairs of men. I'd much rather men trust what the Lord said was true--My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow me, than the testimony of any man. Looking back, I wish I had been a bit more circumspect, not so much for the sake of the person asking the question, but for the others who read it second-hand. But I was not writing for the benefit of those who have already made up their mind. mrk |
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63 | Mark why do you say that? | John 10:27 | userdoe214 | 8020 | ||
Thanks EdB, I was wondering what I said to set Radioman off, for Me thinks his diatribe nearly burned me alive. mrk |
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64 | Mark why do you say that? | John 10:27 | userdoe214 | 8013 | ||
Well I have been noticing that membership in the Mark Sutton Fan Club has dropped off to -3 mrk |
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65 | Mark please more info and no puss :-) | John 10:27 | userdoe214 | 8012 | ||
Don't worry about picking my scabs, it was only a warning of what might follow (I never know what I'm going to write when I get started). I did not mention CRI in that last letter on purpose. Mine is not a complaint about CRI, but the whole world of opinion for popular consumption. The real issues of life are very close at hand. The real news of the day is happening in your sphere of influence, and I don't feel unsafe to conjecture that God is mostly talking to you about the people and events which touch you and you touch. The works of God you do benefit your neighbor, and when you lie down at night the voice you hear saying "Well done good and faithful one," is not coming from a radio. It's all so very simple, but I find it easier to convince children than adults. This has lead me to long wondered why, and suspected that we adults, and long time believers rely on way too many sources for help and information. I like the low tech walk with Jesus more than the gigabyte information sources--(I'm scratching my head right now, trying to square what I just wrote, with the fact that I'm communicating by way of the Internet.) I'm starting to feel a bit embarrassed, like I've talked way too much, or way out of line. mrk |
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66 | Mark why do you say that? | John 10:27 | userdoe214 | 8005 | ||
Dear EdB, You pick a sore with me on this. If you look at my bio you will notice that I've walked with many fringe groups (more than listed). I've never felt like a part of such groups, but my attraction is their many outlandish yet totally committed members. I like people who sweat and bleed what they believe. My only complaint has been; I wish they would think as hard as they believe. But so often I saw people who acted on slightly wrong belief being cared for by God. It's long been a warning to me not to think that God's loving care is based on my sound intellectual knowledge of the Bible, theology, history, or the power of careful thought (all things which lead to boasting). I must clarify that all of these groups were believers in the infallible Scriptures, the Lordship and divinity of Christ, the Lordship of the Holy Spirit and prayed to the Father God. They all believed that it was their mission in life to make the Gospel known to all men. I add this to make it clear that these are in my opinion necessary for a genuine faith--the kind God acknowledges with His presence. So I am not talking about J.W., Mormons or the various expression unitarians.... Now imagine me when I know these people personally and hear a trusted defender of the faith vilify them without mercy. Imagine my feelings when I find out a personality widely trusted/widely published contacts us and says if we don't change our teaching, he'll tell everyone we're a cult. Imagine again that we know that his personal life is in a mess: making a living as a fruit inspector all the while his orchard is worm infested. Should we fire back? In this case we did not, for the supposed evil teaching was not that big a deal to us. Anyway, where could we find a platform big as his? I've often taken the same criteria of judgment the defenders of orthodoxy use and applied them to historic denominations and seen that it's possible to make them look like cults. This gets to a more basic problem. Throughout the history of our faith, there have been defenders of orthodoxy who whipped up powers that be to punish those whom they judged enemies of the faith. Not infrequently we call such a person Saint, Reformer... or some title of dignity, but history has proven that the ones persecuted were holding opinions we consider acceptable today. Now if it just stayed in the boundaries of words, maybe I wouldn't care, but many cases ended up killing people (even their children) for what we today relegate to a difference of biblical interpretation. When I hear attacks on groups (even Mormons, J.W.,...) by these on the radio, I wonder why we continue to defend the faith in this way. My objection is simple: We do not need such men to protect us, for The Holy Spirit and The Holy Bible together are our guide. Any person who caught up in a deception is there because they've 1st silenced the Voice of God, thus 2nd blinded themselves to the Word of God. The maintenance of orthodoxy is between the believer and God: that's why the Scriptures say, you need that no man teach you (and don't take that as a denial of the role of teachers in the church). Now should we talk about right doctrine? Yes, but in the free market place of ideas. We must attempt to extract personalities from discussions and center on the core issues. Admittedly, we often can't tell the difference between core and fringe, but fair/courteous discussion can't hurt. And most of all, never draw the sword over differences of practice--tongues, raising hands in church, infant baptism, church government, laughing, dancing, litergy, KJV-vs-NASB-vs-NIV...get the idea. And just incase you think I go along with some bizarre interpretation of scripture which the faith teachers teach; I do not. There is one in particular who came to my Bible School in the 70's which a voice inside said "be very careful." Now you can read that man's extremely weird beliefs when reading about the errors of the faith leaders. But I always have to say, be sure you really understand what a man means before you judge his words. Many fringe leaders do not have knowledg of the history of doctrine, and don't realize what their words mean to those how have the benefits (and weaknesses) of such study. Think and ask before judging. Give time a chance to expose hearts, and remember ours is a vital faith, not a stone monument. Finally: I ask people to turn off their TVs and radios, reducing their diet of opinion, which passes for learning. If you want to know more of God, seek Him in a quiet place, in unaided Scripture study and with your dear friends. After all, the world you effect is where you live, not hundreds of miles away were TV/radio originate. If you're like me, I can't tell if I listen or watch because I want to know more, or want to take in opinions to strenghen my own to fuel self-complacency and arrogance There you see the puss under this scab Imperfectly His, mrk |
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67 | Is the Word-Faith movement biblical ? | John 10:27 | userdoe214 | 7994 | ||
Sorry, I'm no fan of CRI | ||||||
68 | Is Wisdom personified? | Prov 8:22 | userdoe214 | 7851 | ||
Me thinks so mrk |
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69 | What is the Word-Faith movement? | John 10:27 | userdoe214 | 7849 | ||
Well-versed, maybe not. The Word of Faith movement is largely orthodox in nature, but has developed some pretty strange extremes. Some of the things these guys say are great, and some of it worries everyone. For example: Some (most?) of them see the promises of God from the point of view that these are the things God HAS TO DO FOR YOU, or else He is a liar. I haven't been able to ascertain if there are leaders in the movement who really believe this, and I've often hoped that they use such extreme language to shake people loose from their lack of faith--to make them take a stand on the promises of God, rather than let God's blessing pass by. If that is their motive, great, but when I hear one of their followers misusing such language(my way of saying, standing on wrong belief), I fear they dishonor God by imagining His owes it to them to bless them. There is an unconscious acceptance of a stingy, unloving God who we force to bless us just to protect His reputation for telling the truth. Such teach is not orthodox in my estimation, for it leads to an image of God, rather than a revolation of the God of the Bible. For another example: 1 Pet 2:24 and He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, so that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you were healed. The typical faith position on this verse is that healing is in the Atonement and just like all your sins were forgiven in Christ's bloody death, so were all your diseases healed. So if you are sick, it is not real. For faith does not believe the way things appear, but the way they really are. This starts getting very strange when someone dies of a disease they didn't really have. I've often thought that if they would read the next verse and always keep them together, it might help clear up the confusion, 1 Pet 2:25 For you were continually straying like sheep, but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Guardian of your souls. Let's put them together and see: and He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, so that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you were healed. For you were continually straying like sheep, but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Guardian of your souls. That sounds more like moral healing to me. I also question the period at the end of verse 24, which tends to strengthen the confusion. My problem is not with healing, it's just when you put it in the Atonement in Christ, it means as solidly as you are saved you are healed. So if you get a cold, should you be worried about your salvation too? Of course not, you just doubt the testimony of your runny nose. I like the idea of taking a stand against sickness, but I don't think we should deny our common sense experience of reality--thou we all know even "reality" can be a tricky thing at times. Moving on. The Word of Faith people are often very concerned about getting all the blessings of God, and that eventually leads to the subject of money. Now when you get it wrong about healing, you just quietly bury the person, but when it goes wrong with money, the IRS gets involved and that might be almost as bad as dying in your sins. The press gets involved too. Much of what people know of Word of Faith people has to do with scandals in the press related to money. Yet I know there are Faith people who are very honest. Yet when it comes time to give, a FAITH event will strongly encourage people to give more than they have, because if you give you will get from God. Not infrequently it will degenerate to if you give a dollar God will give you back one hundred, regardless of your motive. The principle of sowing a reaping is throughout the Bible, but to hear them tell it, it's a physical law, right there with cause and effect. If you give, God must (He has no choice) to give you at least one hundred times back in return. It reminds me of a Las Vegas slot machine which you win every time you play. This is ever so brief and very incomplete, because I haven't taken time to tell you what they do so well. I have read the literature of their critics, and often feel that they either misunderstand them, or in a few cases go way beyond the bounds of Christian temperament their judgements, so much so I question their motives. Anyway, this is not the place to present long explanations. I say, give them an ear, but if you get all excited and want to jump on the wagon, just remember that all of us that have fallen off, got pretty badly bruised. Also know that the Spirit of God will never, never, never lead you into deception, so always keep your heart open to Him. He can walk you through the mine field completely unharmed. |
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70 | Is the Word-Faith movement biblical ? | John 10:27 | userdoe214 | 7837 | ||
Keep walking toward the Sun, and you will never be in the dark. I know you wouldn't have asked such a sincere question, if you did not have a sincere heart. It's just that kind of heart the Lord searches the Earth to find. |
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71 | Is the Word-Faith movement biblical ? | John 10:27 | userdoe214 | 7834 | ||
Be careful with the false prophet label, every legitimate prophet of all times have had that stuck on them. Just follow the Lord and leave such judgements to Him. mrk |
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72 | Where there is no vision, people perish? | Prov 29:18 | userdoe214 | 7833 | ||
I just know I will say more than you want, but here goes. The book of Proverbs is stylistically different than most of the books of the Bible. For one, it is playful with contradictions. I don't mean that kind of accidental contradiction skeptics are always hoping to find, but the kind that makes you think (see Pr. 26:4-5). Another type is one that juxtapositions two statements which seem like opposites. This is one of those proverbs. People parish and are unrestrained when they do not properly "see" the value of doing God's law. God says not to commit adultery. The reason for some reason does not seem so clear to many people, so they are unrestrained and their lives start falling apart (i.e. they parish) as a result of breaking this simple law; for the foundation of a happy life is a happy family life, and that certainly is not possible in an home with unfaithful parents. I don't believe God requires we learn the value of His commands by watching the self-inflicted misery of others, I think He'd be much happier to give us insight (vision) into the benefits of doing things His way. Don't mean to long winded, just trying to press the point that the first part of the proverb is properly connected to the second. So keep them together. hope that helps mrk |
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73 | Pay attention to literary techniques | Prov 8:22 | userdoe214 | 7831 | ||
Be careful: if the writer is using the common literary technique of personification, then don't push the literal use of words too hard. At this point the writer (Solomon) is writing poetry, so read it like poetry and get his lesson about the value of wisdom (knowledge plus goodness). But as you may suspect, readers of old were supposed to be scratching their bearded chins (or in the case of women just their chins), wondering if this were some reference to a real person--maybe the one later spoken of by John "In the beginning was the Word..." Did that answer your question? Sometimes I can be a twit. mrk |
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74 | did i miss something? | Col 2:8 | userdoe214 | 7828 | ||
I hate do sound crass, but who asked? mark |
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75 | Is the Word-Faith movement biblical ? | John 10:27 | userdoe214 | 7816 | ||
As a veteran of both movements I say, move on. Not that I have any complaint with either movement, but because those bodies of teaching are related to events of the past, but our God is doing new things all the time. There is truth in both movements (try to get that part), but some of the errors (one of which you mentioned) are almost too strange for sane people to ponder. Just remember: the Bible and the voice of the Lord are your guides (they never contradict). In the end He will judge your actions by you obedience to those to influences; not your attention to the teaching of men (even very good men). I have every confidence He is your guide, and you are in His constant care, thus never fear to put your foot on the water. mark |
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