Results 41 - 60 of 124
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
41 | The Sons of God in Genesis 6:1-4 | Genesis | The Disciple | 31264 | ||
Love Fountain, Thank you for the page from the ISBE...it more or less says all the same arguments we have stated to those who dont see the scripture as we do. Seeings how you enjoy this dialogue...maybe you would also be interested in some more provacative dialogue. Type in Acts 2:6 in the search and look up the question... "When will I speak/pray in tongues"...enjoy the string.... *shalom* D |
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42 | The Sons of God in Genesis 6:1-4 | Genesis | The Disciple | 31263 | ||
Tim, I agree with what you say. How did the line of Cain survive the flood. So how do we find the Nephilim after the flood? The usggestion by some and the contents of some of what the Bible is telling us....looks like it points to the sons of God not being human. Be that as it may, this converstaion on Gen..Jude..2Pet and others presents some very wonderful and provacative thought. *shalom* D |
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43 | The Sons of God in Genesis 6:1-4 | Genesis | The Disciple | 31214 | ||
Jesusman, Verse 6 sarts out, "Now there was a day..." Which means to me, that what was just stated is now being expanded. Or not? Gen 1 is like this... alot of information given...then chapter 2 and 3 and so on expand on what was previously stated. Guess this was written like that to clarify or substantiate a moment, a period of time, a thought or what have you. OR not? *shalom* D |
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44 | The Sons of God in Genesis 6:1-4 | Genesis | The Disciple | 31212 | ||
Jesusman, You have not supported your idea that Job was among the group of Satan and God and the sons fo God. But there has been ample defintion from my part using Vines to support the idea that the sons of God were indeed "heavenly bodie" as well as they were not on earth but in heaven. A careful study of what is being said wil show us that. Job 1:6: "Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord..." they came to God ... no implication of going to a surrounding of rocks (altar) or going to the tabernacle or the temple etc. It says they CAME TO PRESENT THEMSELVES BEFORE THE LORD... There have been times that the Lord pcame to men and its says as much. And times of men presenting themselves to the Lord at a specific place noted in the verses. This is a time that these beings came to GOD...where is God? In heaven? or is the implication on earth? "and Satan came among them also..." No need to read anything into this...it means what it says. "And the Lord said to Satan, "From where do you come?" Where is the Lord and Satan now? IF Satan came from someplace and is now before the Lord, does this not imply that he has moved from one place to another? "S Satan answered the Lord and said, "From going to and fro on the earth..." So if Satan is now on earth before the Lord at this meeting...why is Satan answering in such a profundity? Or is Satan in heaven standing before the Lord with sons of God(line of Seth?). What am I reading into this? How can this be a worship, church service as you imply? And how is Job even among these? If you were to do a word search you may see that the Lord says to Satan in verse 8 ..."Since you have been considering, have you seen he is upright...etc." How else does Satan know about the hedge on Job and his uprightness? You see, Satan is not omnipresent and has to go to earth to get his info. Or am I in left field??? *shalom* D |
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45 | The Sons of God in Genesis 6:1-4 | Genesis | The Disciple | 31209 | ||
Jesusman, I just got home from a long road trip and heading out again tomorrow. I havent had time to read up on all my grammer of Greek n Hebrew. But I will look into it. But I must ask. Those who wrote the Bible in our language I am presuming took into account all the things you say about punctuation,etc. But then maybe not. I would like to address one thing about Gen 6:4 though before we go on addressing grammer. "There were giants in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them..." Is the punctuation or grammer in this verse questionable also? I ask for sake of argument, it says,"In those days, and also afterward..." Are we agreed that it is speaking of before and after the flood? If not, then tell me what and I will look deeper into HIS word and glean from it. If it is about Pre and Post Flood. Then my question of concern is this: How did Cains lineage make it after the flood to procreate with Seths lineage? This truly is a confusion to me. *shalom* Discipled |
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46 | The Sons of God in Genesis 6:1-4 | Genesis | The Disciple | 30782 | ||
Another note to the issue... Brief conclusion: The writer is trying to show us that what was stated in the previous verse is still the topic of the next verse. Namely angels and how like in S/G they went after strange flesh. These angels are different from others we know about because they willingly left their abode(habitation) knowing the consequences of doing so. 2Pet2:4 is crossed to Jude 6. The place of holding is called Tartarus, a place of final punishment. Involves severe limitations of action, symbolized by 'chains'. Almost total lack of understanding, symbolized by the darkness. A special place indeed. Saved for special punishment because of special circumstances? Why were these angels put their? The only scripture that can coincide is found in Jude 6, where, "reserved for judgent" is found again. I can only hope to believe we are both wrong in our endeavors for truth in this issue. The Lord may tell us when we get to Him...we were so cloooooooooose...but yet. How much more can we see if we were to do a verse by word by precept search of this passage? I pray we both can glean that which is lovely from all this. *SHALOM* Discipled |
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47 | The Sons of God in Genesis 6:1-4 | Genesis | The Disciple | 30743 | ||
Jesusman, Thank you for supporting alot of what I had said earlier, and what you said previous to that. Dare we read Jude 1:6,7 again? Lets do a less than exhaustive study... Let us start with vs 5 which is the beginning of this paragraph in question. v5- "But I want to remind you, though you once knew this, that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe." v6- "And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day;" v7- "as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vegence of eternal fire." Lets dig now and see what could be AN answer (not The) to the issue at hand. vs 5 - For sake of argument, I wont delve deeper than needed. We are agreed that this verse tells of something already known to the readers; those who did not believe were destroyed. Definitions are from Vine's Complete Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words. In order to reference in the Vines Dictionary, I need to read from KJV for this verse. 6a- "And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation,..." "estate" - Pg 207 Notes (5) In Jude 6 'arche', (is defined) principality, Revised Version and KJV 'principality' According to Vines: Pg 488 Last paragraph (arche), In Jude 6, RV, it signifies, not the first estate of fallen angels (as KJV), but their authoritative power, "their own" indicating that which had been assigned to them by God, which they left, aspiring to prohibited conditions. See: Begin. Pg 58 B.Noun - Begin(arche) is defined as a verb - "to be first" 6b- "but left their own habitation,..." "habitation" Vines Dict: Pg 286 1. oiketerion, is used in Jude 6, of the heavenly region appointed by God as the dwelling place of the angels. Would this be a safe variation of v6 ? "And the angels who voluntarily decided to dismiss their authoritative position assigned by God, knowing full well of the prohibitive conditions. They left their dwelling place (heaven). He(God) had these angels reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day." v7 - "Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner,..." KJV "as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them IN A SIMILAR MANNER TO THESE..." NKJV In the NKJV vs6 ends with a semi-colon (;) and verse 7 begins, "as". A semi-colon tells us, co-ordinate clauses having a relationship in meaning not explicity stated are being seperated. I guess you can say, what was just stated is being defined a little bit better. Here in the Bible the writer is using S and G as a point of reference to what was just stated. In the KJV v7 starts out, "Even as" "As" simply defined. Same, just like. so vs7 tells us... "Just like S/G and the cities around them IN LIKE MANNER(KJV)...IN A SIMILAR MANNER TO THESE(NKJV)..." In the New American Standard Bible (NASB), vs7 reads, "Just as S/G and the cities around them, since they as in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example, in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire." What may we see is being stated here? Did the angels in vs 6 knowing full well the outcome of their exploits leave their original place of authority and their home to partake of the flesh? Or have I "read into" the definitions as laid out by my Vine's Dictionary? In all the versions I have at my disposal(8) the cross references to vs 6 are all the same. 2Pet2:4 1Tim5:21 Job 1:6 Gen3:24 All have one thing in common...Angels. ...Lord dont let me convolute your story... *SHALOM* Discipled |
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48 | The Sons of God in Genesis 6:1-4 | Genesis | The Disciple | 30499 | ||
Jesusman, Check out my post attached to my last one to you. I should have attached it to one of your own...so you would receive it in your email. sorry. D |
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49 | The Sons of God in Genesis 6:1-4 | Genesis | The Disciple | 30498 | ||
J-man..I read and reread the chapter...and the verse in question. Namely, vs 4 of chapter 6. "There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown." 1. "There were giants on the earth in those days,..." The previous 3 verses talk strictly about men multiplying on the earh and daughters were born to them. These sons of God took the daughters as wives. THEN the Lord said, "My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, for he is indeed flesh; yet his days shall be 120 years." (120years can verily be seen as a Grace period for mankind before the flood(His wrath). Before we discount this thought....look carefully at the time it took Noah to build the Ark.) In vs 1-3: He tells us giants were in these days.... are not these days He is speaking the days of men multiplying?? And if we agree that 'sons of God', i.e. from Job 1 are heavenly bodies, then these could very well be the same type. That is if we consider what is stated next in vs 4. 2. "...and also afterward," Afterward of the days that were just spoken of...can we agree? What came after these days that HE speaks of?...the Flood? If so, then these giants (or men as God calls them) came after the flood. HOW? - is what we should be asking.... how did these giants find there way back if Noah and his family were all that was left... was Noah a Nephilim...??? doubtful...veryyy doubtful. 3. "...when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them." In all translations you should find 'children' italicized. The inference of children is there because of the words, 'bore to them'. These children then, 4. "Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown." ....the mighty men of old...interesting if we look at Gen 6 as we do Gen 1...an overview of things to be stated later and revealed. You will most likely find most commentaries supporting these mighty men ...Nephilim as they are called..."mighty ones of old" to be of UN-natural origin. With what is said in 2Peter2:4; Jude6,7; Job1:6; Gen3:24(inference of angels taking on human form?) John 8:44, we find out who the father of lies is. Cannot his minions been used to decieve mankind into themselves as being dominate with the stature of these beings?? In 2peter2:4, the word Tartarus is used and not Hades, Hell, Abyss, or any other word. This is the only place that this word is found. Since this is a special place for these special minions of Satan, could they not be put here because of the fact they left thier 'familiar habitat'? And that 'habitat' they left was their heavenly body? I dont believe any of us can stand 'dogmattically' on either side of this issue. We shouldnt - considering its not essential to our salvation. But, you have to admit - this is one of those rare areas that it is nice to share viewpoints. *shalom* D |
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50 | "ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED"!!! | Matt 22:37 | The Disciple | 30472 | ||
Johnny, Goodness...but I do agree with all that you state. All the scriptures you post are correct in the context to what they state. To answer the question ...who says we are saved or not saved???? Only ...our LORD can say so - at the final judgement day. Romans 7 tells us of our inability to be sinless. Romans 8 shows us that as HIS children we will not endure the torment coming. The choice of 'staying' (as you put it) as a Christian is fully on us. But know this, we cannot crucify Jesus over and over with our sinful acts. But I would like an answer to this question: Can we OUTSIN......Grace? *shalom* D |
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51 | The Sons of God in Genesis 6:1-4 | Genesis | The Disciple | 30471 | ||
INTERESTING take indeed J-man. I have to ask though, how do you come to your conclusion on the "and afterward" as discussion of the offspring of daughters and sons? The chapter itself in context is about the coming flood and this should tell us the nephilim were pre and post flood. But I shall look deeper into this and not read all the commentaries on this chapter from scholars of past and present to influence my bent. *shalom* D |
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52 | "ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED"!!! | Matt 22:37 | The Disciple | 30416 | ||
Johnny, sorry for the incorrect sentencing. I just reread what I had posted. Let me state again. Adam and Eve were not saved beings when they were created. They were God's creation for God's own pleasure, IN HIS IMAGE. They had nothing to be saved from when they were created. NOT until they fell into sin. But WE..as Christ(ians) are saved ...from what? We are saved from the fall of our 1st Parents. Hence, the need to be saved. Saved from what? Eternal Damnation... So after the fall, Adam and Eve needing saving. How did they get it? They got it the same time we did. When JESUS died for all on that cross and rose from the dead. I am not sure what you are trying to say from your last post. forgive me. D |
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53 | "ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED"!!! | Matt 22:37 | The Disciple | 30413 | ||
Since we are saved for eternity to His Love. I agree with your post indeed. I am a once saved believer. But, when it comes to the verses used like Rom 8, "there is nothing that can seperate us from the love of God.." John 3:16 says the same thing doesnt it? "For God so loved the world..." Since we know God loved the world and he let His son die for our sins, this lets us know OF His love for us. Now my question: Is this "love of God" that we can never be seperated from be - the salvation we never lose? Rom 8:1 lets us know what the whole chapter is about. "There is therfore no condemnation for THOSE who ARE in Christ Jesus, who NO NOT WALK ACCORDING TO THE FLESH, but according to the Spirit." These tells me clearly the same thing I believe you asked in the beginning of this post. Are we really saved?? *SHALOM* D |
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54 | "ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED"!!! | Matt 22:37 | The Disciple | 30378 | ||
To All of Us DOGS....ehehehe Hank...you made me cry with laughter with that last sentence...Thank you.... D |
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55 | "ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED"!!! | Matt 22:37 | The Disciple | 30372 | ||
DEBATE?? Is not always a bad word... contend is not always a bad word. But for most...who enjoy (for lack of a better term) Socratic Dialogue...debate is a good thing. We should 'strive' to find another to 'reason', 'convince', 'contend', 'rightly divide' within HIS WORD. Reasoning from Scripture is such THE HIGH... But, contending to make YOURSELF: right, an authority, the Source of answers - is the WRONG MOTIVES. We can use this Forum to debate...but surely only in LOVE... Let us 'sharpen another' for the sake of sharpening ourselves. *SHALOM* D |
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56 | "ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED"!!! | Matt 22:37 | The Disciple | 30365 | ||
yokefellow, I have posted this question a couple times now and no one has bitten. Can we OUTSIN.....Grace? my answer is of course - no we cant. but that doesnt give us free license to sin ...or tempt our grace. Who is the 'author' and 'finisher' of our faith? Faith of ...who...to...for...with... what faith is what i am asking? WE should not presume to know ...nor can we ever comprehend...we may apprehend truly. But HE does want us to reason from Scripture. KEEP GOING my brother...we all should 'diligently seek'... just like you and a few others in here. hope we can all be reasonable as we try to reason.... *SHALOM* D |
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57 | "ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED"!!! | Matt 22:37 | The Disciple | 30359 | ||
Johhny, Salvation means one thing doesnt it? Adam and Eve were not saved beings when they were created. (like you said) for sake of discussion let me elaborate a lil bit.. But WE..as Christ(ians) are saved ...from what our 1st Mother and Father fell from...Grace. Hence, the need to be saved. Saved from what? Eternal Damnation... So after the fall, Adam and Eve needing saving. How did they get it? They got it the same time we did. When JESUS died for all on that cross and rose from the dead. As for eternal security issues...my question for you and the rest... Can we OUTSIN ....GRACE?? NO we cannot. But that doesnt mean we should try to. What is the Holy Spirit for? Being our comforter as well as helping us to understand HIM in HIS word. Who is the 'author' and 'finisher' of our faith? Faith in, on, with, for??? There is so much in store for those who 'diligently seek' Him in His word. Which is what HIS word is for ...being SOUGHT. How else do we 'rightly divide'? Johnny, this post is NOT directed JUST to you... but for all of US. We so NEEEED to be in HIS word and study His word. Psalm 119 has so much in store for those who study in it. Proverbs 15:28a "The righteous study how to answer..." OH SO MUCH is printed for us in books, periodicals, newspapers, pamphlets,sermons from differint pulpits, the radio, TV on info about our LORD. Yet, MOST only use those as their points of reference for their arguements about most anything they think they know. They havent read the WORD...studied it to be approved...or reasoned from it. NOTHING in this world is as important as knowing God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit. The Father wrote a book for all of us to read from to get to know HIM. Psalm 138:2b says it best for all of us to understand, "...I hold my Word above my Name." In this Forum, we all should be prayerfully seeking HIM and what HE wants us to understand. We ALL should be citing Scripture to substantiate any claims we have to knowing something or presumably knowing. NOT THAT I HAVE ATTAINED...never...that is not until I am face to face with my LORD JESUS. And why I am saying all this?? ehehehehehehee sorry for the lengthy personal dissertation.... *SHALOM* D |
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58 | The Sons of God in Genesis 6:1-4 | Genesis | The Disciple | 30340 | ||
Blessings All, I have been reading with supreme interest all that has been posted about these passages. What a wonderful study it is indeed. First, I will not presume to know all the answers in these passages nor I hope not to sound dogmatic in what I may state to presume or suggest. I do have a question about vs.4, "There were giants on the earth in those days(a), AND ALSO AFTERWARD, when the sons of God came in to the dauthers of men and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown." a) "those days" is x-ref'd to: Num13:32,33 Nephilim is used in both instances. Rephaim is used to define the descendants of Goliath. 2Sam21:15-22, Gen 15:20. The Anakim were from the Rephaim? who were from the Nephilim? Long and ardusous study for those who like to find caveats. "AND ALSO AFTERWARD"... afterward of what? Post flood ? Since this chapter and the surrounding paragraphs deal with the coming of the flood. Then isnt it safe to assume that "after" the flood is being discussed also? As for Job 1 and 2: Job 1:6,7, "Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them. And the Lord said to Satan,'From where do you come?' So Satan answered the Lord and said, "From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking back and forth on it." The Lord asked Satan "from WHERE do you COME?". Does this not mean, Satan was somewhere else as opposed to the place he is now? If so, then he came from earth. If this be the case then where is he when he presents himself with the others "sons of God"? This looks to be Heaven, since they came to GOD. We know this by seeing "they came to present themselves before the Lord"...not "The Lord came to them." This is more than likely a heavenly meeting, thus, no humans? Back to Gen 6: "Those were the mightly men..." Who were those? Would they not be whom was dicussed just prior ? Those born to the women and the sons of God? I shall break for now, and will look for posts from this and continue from there. But I would like to say, the "sons of God" are looking very much like heavenly beings. As defined from the Oldest Book found by man. ...Lord dont let us convolute the story... *SHALOM* D ps: use the search tool above and type in Gen 6:4, then click on Can angels have human babies? and check out the posts made therein. |
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59 | Is coveting with a pure heart Godly? | James 4:3 | The Disciple | 30133 | ||
kalos, thank you for reassuring me that im not off *S* a song by a young group from South Africa..thier name is Tree 63. They sing a song that I feel best describes what it should be. The name of the song is What Can I Do? "What can I do for you my Lord... it's not a question of what you can do for me... What can I do for you my Lord." Our younger generation is hearing words like this and making me feel very good about what they are understanding. Blessings my friend, D |
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60 | Is coveting with a pure heart Godly? | James 4:3 | The Disciple | 30031 | ||
Thank You Nolan, I have used that Scripture for a foundation of why I do the things I do with all my brothers that ask why... Prayerfully they to will find themselves in His service in such a way. Lord Bless you always, D |
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