Results 41 - 60 of 84
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Results from: Notes Author: Suede67 Ordered by Date |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
41 | The second coming of Jesus | Bible general Archive 2 | Suede67 | 96055 | ||
Radioman, Very good! Yet I find it odd then that Preterists are attacked and labeled as heretics. Pretty hypocritical of some. Oh well, it matters not to me. Take care, SUEDE |
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42 | The second coming of Jesus | Bible general Archive 2 | Suede67 | 96051 | ||
Darcy ….Suede, and all others that think that the rapture has already happened, Matthew 16:28 is referring to the transfiguration not the rapture… Actually it’s referring to the Second Coming as a whole. …And where does everyone think that everything took place in 70 a.d.? Of the day and time no man knows, not even the angels in Heaven, only the father… Actually, Preterists agree that of the day and time no man knew. All we do know is that it would have to take place roughly 40 years after Christ ascended. …If Jesus has already raptured the church , were all in big trouble… Actually we’re not, for the tribulations listed in such books as Revelation have already passed. Christ has had full victory, and because of that, so do we. ….Revelation would not be relevant or Acts.. These actually are relevant, just not in the way Futurists feel. Preterists see them as yet one more proof that Christ is the Messiah. He said he would be back within 40 years and he was! It’s so comforting to understand the Bible as it is meant to be understood. Basically put, we are reading someone else’s mail. Though it is still relevant to us, it was more relevant to the people that the books were actually written for, that is the first century Christians. ….And as far as Jesus saying that he would be back in one generation is false… Hmm, that’s quite a statement. …It doesnt matter what the church believes, its what the Bible says. Men have changed all the scriptures to fit what they believe…. Welcome to Preterism my friend!! Us Preterists give all authority to the Bible, none to the church or what men may feel about it. ….Isreal has to be taken into account in all because they will become our brothers and sisters in Christ… Well, if by Israel you mean ethnic Jews, then yes, they can become our brothers and sisters, but only in Christ. ….All 70 a.d. people don’t be deceived by date setting ,its wrong. I’m still awaiting the rapture but until it comes I’ll continue to seek out souls for Gods kingdom… Well, you’ll ultimately be awaiting an event that will not come, for it has already happened. But, I am glad that you seek out people for salvation. That’s great! Take care, SUEDE |
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43 | The second coming of Jesus | Bible general Archive 2 | Suede67 | 95972 | ||
Radioman, ….'If the Rapture "has already taken place", then the resurrection has already taken place. Paul, in 1 Corinthians 15 writes of the day when the final "trumpet" for believers will be blown and mortality will put on immortality. In this passage, he links the Rapture with the resurrection of believers. In other words, when the Rapture takes place, the resurrection occurs…. Correct. But let’s fill in the details. Paul tells the Corinthians, the ones actually alive in the 1st century, that the “rapture”/resurrection will take place within THEIR lifetime, not 2000 years and counting. 1 Cor 15:51,52 ‘Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound and the dead will be raised.’ So we can see that Paul tells people that were alive that some of them would NOT physical die, but would actually live through the rapture/resurrection. ….'Those who insist that the events of Matthew 24 are history and say that the "generation that sees these things" was the generation concurrent with Jesus nearly 2,000 years ago, must of necessity show that the resurrection has also taken place. The only way that is possible is to spiritualize the text by saying that the resurrection was a spiritual one and not a physical one…. Ok here ya go. 1 Cor 15:42-44 “So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown a perishable body, it is raised an imperishable body; it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; it is sown a natural body, IT IS RAISED A SPIRITUAL BODY.” There, that wasn’t so hard now was it? …'And what was the resurrected body of Jesus like? First, the tomb was empty. In other words, there was a physical body in it but on the day of His resurrection, it became empty. A body had departed from it. Second, he had a glorified body. It was different from His previous mortal body, but it was the same body. Third, Jesus was visible to the disciples until the time He ascended and was touched by them and ate with them. Christ's resurrected body was a physical body, not a spiritualized one… Jesus had to come back physically to one, prove he could, and two finish teaching the apostles. We do not have to fulfill these things, there is no reason why we need a physical body. …If a spiritual body cannot be seen, touched, or handled, is it a body at all? It is one thing to say that our resurrected bodies will be spiritiual bodies, but quite another to imply that our resurrected bodies will be merely spirits. The Bible speaks of spiritual bodies… It sure does. Look at angels all throughout the Bible. Spiritual beings indeed, but they could be seen, they could eat, and they could sleep. Look at the angels that come to Lot. ….However, many often "flip flop" in their interpretation approach to maintain a preconceived understanding of a text…. Something Futurists are quite guilty of as well. So much for the “Beam in the eye” verse. ….An example of this is the above. Preterists interpret "this generation" in the simple sense as meaning the generation concurrent with Christ and then suddenly "shift gears" and apply a figurative approach to arrive at a spiritualized understanding of the Rapture and the resurrection… But with 1 Cor 15:42-44 (listed above) we can see that Preterists ARE consistent as far as “this Generation” and with the spiritual understanding of the Rapture and the Resurrection. And we can now see that Futurists are the ones who are not. ….The only way the integrity of the Author/author's wording and meaning can be preserved is by taking Scripture at face value. Taking Scripture at face value means that the student of Scripture recognizes the difference between what can be called the "simple sense" of a passage and what is understood as a literal understanding…. Ok, let’s do that RIGHT now. 1 Cor 15:42-44 “So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown a perishable body, it is raised an imperishable body; it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; it is sown a natural body, IT IS RAISED A SPIRITUAL BODY.” NAS Rev 1:1 “The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God have him to show to his bond servants, the things which must SOON TAKE PLACE…” NAS And those are just a small handful. Shall I list some more to be taken literally? Take care, SUEDE |
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44 | The second coming of Jesus | Bible general Archive 2 | Suede67 | 95971 | ||
Radioman, I’ve actually seen this article before. I’ll go ahead and gun it down one more time, …'"Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place." Matthew 24:34 'The above passage is found in what is referred to as the Olivet Discourse of Jesus given a few days before Christ's crucifixion. The context for Matthew 24:34 is Jesus' response to the questions of the disciples regarding His return and the end of the age…. So far so good. …There are those in the church of Jesus Christ who understand "this generation" to refer to the generation to whom Jesus was speaking the day He gave the discourse.” … Yes, and that’s exactly who he was referring to. Christ said, THIS generation, back around 30 AD. Christ did not say, some other generation, or another generation. He was telling his disciples that this generation, the one they were in, would not pass. …'Today, there is a resurgence of this teaching known as preterism. The term preterism comes from the Latin word praeterism and means "past" or already gone by. The basic teaching of preterism is that the great tribulation has already occured in the distant past, principally at AD 70. Those who hold to this teaching are known specifically as full preterists. There is another subgroup of preterists known as partial or moderate preterists. This latter group sees parts of the Olivet Discourse, or Jesus' teaching on end times, as partially fulfilled in AD 70 but other parts as yet to be fulfilled at the second parousia of Christ. Several efforts have been made to establish preterism as historically sound and biblical but the clear warning of Paul reminds us that it is an heretical and false teaching… Actually Paul’s teachings pertain to a specific heresy, the Hymenaeus Heresy. The problem is, this heresy isn’t applicable to Preterism. Hymenaeus claimed, PRIOR to 70 AD, that the resurrection had already happened. He was wrong of course, and correctly shunned by Paul. Preterists do not make the claim that Hymenaeus did. We state that all things happened in 70 AD, not before like Hymenaeus did. It is a completely illogical blunder to put Preterists with Hymenaeus. ….Be a Berean (Acts 17:11) and examine the Word to "see if these things are so."'… I couldn’t agree more! SUEDE |
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45 | The second coming of Jesus | Bible general Archive 2 | Suede67 | 95970 | ||
Darcy, “Complete heresy!” If it is then it will be quite simple to disprove Biblically. “ Look at the covenant made with Abraham. Abraham fulfilled his part. He left home!” I agree 100 percent. He was faithful to God, and we as the faithful reap the rewards that God promised and honored to Abraham. “How do you get poetic language EVRY EYE WILL SEE HIM? Its Poetic because all you are doing is twisting the Word of God to fit your needs.” Sorry my friend, that’s the way it is. There’s no twisting here. “Last time I checked This world is not at peace. Christians are STILL persecuted and killed. And you say that is peace? What happen September 11, 2001 is Peace? The Nuclear Weapons is a sign of peace? Tell me what war is then? We will kill 40,000,000 babies because there is peace on earth?” Hmm, does the Bible state a universal peace, even for non believers? No, of course it doesn’t. There will ALWAYS be dogs outside the city. Please research that further. “The bible states they will learn war no more! It is not poetic if it is poetic its a bad poem.” Well, art is subjective. Take care, SUEDE |
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46 | The second coming of Jesus | Bible general Archive 2 | Suede67 | 95959 | ||
Darcy, “When God promises Abraham Isaac and Jacob the land of Israel He wasn't serious” God made promises and established covenants. Promises are based only on God, but covenants involve at least two groups, namely God and another party. A lot of the things that were to happen for the Israelites were based solely on them remaining faithful to God. They didn’t do this all the time, and suffered the consequences. When God sent his son, as promised, a lot of Jews refused to believe in him. They are therefore NOT a part of the New Covenant. “When Jesus said every eye would see Him, he didn't mean it.” He did, but you desire this to be fulfilled with visual confirmation. Not so. This is prophetic language, quite common in the OT. Since the world is round, it is an utter impossibility for all eyes to visually see him. “When The prophets of God said there would be peace on Earth and the curse would be lifted it was figurative.” Believers DO have peace, the curse HAS been lifted. To say otherwise is blasphemous because it says that we are under the curse of death, that Christ didn’t finish what he set out to do. “Now I would advise you to read Matt 25 about the sheep and the goats. And ask the Holy Spirit to direct you if you know lord as your personal savior. And if you do you will see some truth. Also let me warn you and other preterist this is coming from my heart People who think God changed His mind on the promises to Israel and are now given to the church.” Well, I do appreciate your concern, and you are sort of on the right track. Israel, as in ethnic Jews CAN in fact take part in the New Covenant and in the Promises of God. HOWEVER, they must believe in Christ. That’s key. It’s in error to separate the Jews and the Church. If Jews believe, they are the Church, along with us gentiles. But note, gentiles were grafted into the promises of God. How? By belief!! Jews/Israel can still partake in the promises, BUT they must be believers in the Son. “ And Isreal is No more Gods Chosen and you hurt the apple of God's eye I would not want to be in your shoes.” It’s ok my friend, I shake not in my boots. Israel as a single ethnic nation is not God’s chosen people anymore. Jesus plainly says that he is going to remove the kingdom of God from them and give it to a nation bearing fruit. That “nation” is all believers. Matthew 21:43-45 "Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people, producing the fruit of it. "And he who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces; but on whomever it falls, it will scatter him like dust." When the chief priests and the Pharisees heard His parables, they understood that He was speaking about them.” “Remember this Verse every day of your life, Genesis 27:29 “May peoples serve you, And nations bow down to you; Be master of your brothers, And may your mother's sons bow down to you. CURSED BE THOSE WHO CURSE YOU, AND BLESSED BE THOSE WHO BLESS YOU." Yes, excellent verse. Darcy, don’t you know that that verse is about you? Who is it that blesses or curses nations? It’s the believers in God. Who are they? The Christians! Both Jewish and Gentile in ethnicity, but they are believers in Christ. I HIGHLY recommend you go over Paul’s epistles, it will clear up a lot of this chaos. Here a few verses so you can see what I mean. Romans 4:13-16 “For the promise to Abraham or to his descendants that he would be heir of the world was not through the Law, but through the righteousness of faith. For if those who are of the Law are heirs, faith is made void and the promise is nullified; for the Law brings about wrath, but where there is no law, there also is no violation. For this reason it is by faith, in order that it may be in accordance with grace, so that the promise will be guaranteed to all the descendants, not only to those who are of the Law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all, Gal 3:29 “And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's descendants, heirs according to promise.” ” Remember it was Jews who gave us the Word of God Who a lot died for here faith. It was a Jew that gave us gentiles the Gospel. It was a Jew that that died an undeserving death and took our place which we are deserving of. “ Truly. Which is why it is ultimately a pity that many ethnic Jews do not believe. ”The reason I am saying all this is because I don't know how you can have this view of 70AD Christ returning and not think of the Jews have lost their promises God almighty made to to thier forefathers. “ Christ returning fulfilled and sealed those promises, it didn’t cause them to be lost. Take care, SUEDE |
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47 | The second coming of Jesus | Bible general Archive 2 | Suede67 | 95882 | ||
Darcy, Yes, 2 Peter 1:15-18 is explaining the Transfiguration, quite eloquently too. However, as I originally stated, at the Transfiguration Christ did not appear with his angels nor did he reward everyone. These are things he said he would do in Matthew 16:27-28. The Transfiguration does not explain Matthew 16:27-28, it is a very separate event with very distinct and different things happening at it. Take care, SUEDE |
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48 | The second coming of Jesus | Bible general Archive 2 | Suede67 | 95840 | ||
Hey Joe, Yes, the Transfiguration is pretty standard, it’s not the only explanation for Matt 16:27-28, but it’s by far the most common. “I had asked you a question a couple of weeks ago regarding your views on Matthew 25:31-46.’ I hope I answered it then. Sometimes keeping up with these forums can be tough. Let me know if I didn’t though. “It seems that the last judgment will be a corporate judgment rather than a one-at-a-time judgment.” I see what you mean here, but I still think it will be a one on one type judgment. But, it will be a broad stroke. Not a ‘now serving number 1,001,436’ . “How does the full preterist view these verses, and when do complete preterists believe that our bodies will be resurrected and glorified (cf. 1 Corinthians 15 and Philippians 3:20-21)?” I’m glad you can see that the first thing to deal with is timing. I think it’s incorrect to jump this, though many, Partial Preterists especially, do this often. I’m glad you don’t suffer from that. Too often folks want to race ahead to the nature of it, when instead it’s more paramount to find out when the heck it happens. 1 before 2 and 2 before 3. In short, the resurrection has happened. I know this sounds very odd, and often gets us Preterists labeled as heretics, BUT, it is what the Bible shows. First, I HIGHLY, HIGHLY, HIGHLY recommend you read a Literal Translation of the Bible, specifically the New Testament. Young’s or Green’s are great translations, both can be found on line as well. Unfortunately many translators inject their theologies and understanding into the Bible and this hampers with the literal meaning. Take this verse for example, here from Young’s literal translation. Acts 24:15 having hope toward God, which they themselves also wait for, [that] there is about to be a rising again of the dead, both of righteous and unrighteous; Now look at it from another translation, say NIV or NASB. Pretty different huh? But we can see that a literal rendering means that Luke was saying that there is ABOUT to be a resurrection. Also when you take Matthew 16:27 and 28 compare those two with Revelation 22:12. Pretty much the same thing, only in Revelation Jesus tells John that he is coming soon. This is actually how Revelation starts as well, note the blatant time indicator in Rev 1:1. In 1 Cor 15 we find that Paul is telling us that we are sown physical but we are raised spiritual. (15:44) That’s the nature of the resurrection. The proof of this is in a first century Heretic named Hymenaeus. Hymenaeus was a heretic because he was able to pull people out of faith by telling them that the resurrection had already happened. This is pre 70 AD mind you. But, the logic we must present is this. IF the resurrection is to be physical and IF it was to take place thousands of years in the future, there would not have been a single Christian in the 1st century mislead by Hymenaeus. Actually, Hymenaeus should have been the laughing stock of Christendom. 1st century Christians should have laughed at him and said, “Oh Hymenaeus, don’t you know our physical bodies will be altered and that this event isn’t even remotely close to us?” But that didn’t happen. Why not? Because 1st Century Christians knew that the resurrection was right there, some of them would still be alive when it did happen. The 1st century Christian was actively and eagerly awaiting the return that Christ and the Apostles spoke of as happening within a short period of time. Well that’s the jist of it, hope it finds you will. Take care, SUEDE |
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49 | The second coming of Jesus | Bible general Archive 2 | Suede67 | 95652 | ||
Darcy, “The transfiguration doesn't show verse 27? ummm okay I must be mistaken.” It happens. Apologetics 101 ALWAYS rolls Matthew 16:27 and 28 into the Transfiguration. Sad and unfortunate. “ If I told my 4 year old son what does God mean when He says Jerusalem My son would look at me weird and say Jerusalem daddy.” If you told your son what does God mean when he says the Kingdom of God, would he look at you weird and say Transfiguration? Real quick about Daniel. There isn’t a break between his 69th and 70th week. Something I hope you look into. Take care, SUEDE |
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50 | The second coming of Jesus | Bible general Archive 2 | Suede67 | 95639 | ||
Darcy, You mean the Transfiguration. Yes, an all too common "explaination" for Matthew 16:28 by Futurists. Sadly, when I was a Futurist, I used it too. However, it isn't correct, and here's why. To put Matthew 16:28 in context, we need to read the verses BEFORE it to get a full understanding of what it means. Verse 27 tells us what will happen in conjunction with verse 28; and these things were NOT done at the Transfiguration. Let me show you why. I'll list a section of Matthew verse 27 at a time and then explain why the Transfiguration does NOT explain verse 28 of Chapter 16 of Matthew. Let's start, "For the Son of Man is going to come..." Ok, at the point of the Transfiguration in chapter 17, Christ was already there, he hadn't left yet. Christ saying the Son of Man is GOING to come, means that Christ first has to leave so he can in come. "...in his Father's glory with his angels..." At the Transfiguration Christ only appears with Moses and Elijah. "...and he will reward each person according to what he has done." That didn't happen at the Transfiguration either. Therefore, we can see that chapter 17 does not explain 16:28. Take care, SUEDE |
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51 | The second coming of Jesus | Bible general Archive 2 | Suede67 | 95628 | ||
Darcy The answer does lie in the Bible, I agree. And in it, Jesus says he will be back within one generation. The end. There's the BIBLICAL answer concerning his return. I fail to see the difficulty in this. As far as the verses go that you listed, 2 of them don't even mention Jerusalem, or Israel. And yes, the others that do are to be taken symbolic or figuratively. But worry not, I do take things literal when apt, Matt 16:28 "Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom." Take care, SUEDE |
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52 | Why little sign of power in our churches | Mark 16:17 | Suede67 | 93599 | ||
Hey Ken, ".....Neither are gifts and the church....." Incorrect!.... If gifts and the church were tied together absolutely, then they would be absolutely manifested. But they are not, and never were. Even back in the first century, not all believers would exhibit gifts. Lack of salvation? Never. ".......Neither is the church and salvation......" Partly correct!... Correct in it's entirity. Eph 2:2-9 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. It is important to fellowship, but you are not saved because of it. ".....I think it's a good idea to fellowship with Christians, but it's not a salvation issue...." Maybe! Depends on the condition of the "Christians" and what influence I may bring into the gathering... Yes, if they are wolves amongst the flock, I agree, but I meant fellowshipping in it's purest form, with Believers not non believers. "....Salvation is grace, not church attendance or having a "gift"...." Maybe....A little to cultish here, I'm afraid.... Surely you jest. Eph 2:8 and 9 again? It is often cults that claim that only 'they' have the correct or true church. That is cultish. ...A good question you might ask yourself is "What salvation"?... Grace alone. ...There is one that must be worked out with fear and trembling... Yes, our gift from God must be worked out, or understood. But this does not imply salvation by works. However, that verse is at forefront of cults such as JWs. ...Does the church have part in that one?... In understanding one's Grace from God? No. BUT, we should fellowship with believers. ...How about the gifts?... Absolutely not. Never have, never will. Some charsmatic believe this to be so, as in if you can't speak in "tongues" you aren't saved. That is incorrect on so many levels. Take care, SUEDE |
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53 | Why little sign of power in our churches | Mark 16:17 | Suede67 | 93596 | ||
Ken, ...Sorry this is a late response... No big deal! ...1 Cor 13:8 shows us that gifts will cease. At the time of 1 Cor 1:7 spritual gifts were very much abound still. Both 13:8 and 1:7 show us that they cease upon Christ's return. Now it's just a matter of when you feel Christ will or has returned... Yes, this is correct. ...Apparently you must believe He has returned... I believe the Bible is the Word of God alone and I believe what is written in it. Take care, SUEDE |
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54 | Why little sign of power in our churches | Mark 16:17 | Suede67 | 93595 | ||
Retxar, ...However, if you believe Jesus has already returned, why do you think "it is important for Christians to observe it" in light of 1Co 11:26? Why would you, if Jesus has already returned?... Well, though I can't speak for all Preterists, I will speak for myself. I personally feel communion has other benefits to it. Here's a few from Easton's, and I agree with them completely, To commemorate the death of Christ: "This do in remembrance of me." To signify, seal, and apply to believers all the benefits of the new covenant. In this ordinance Christ ratifies his promises to his people, and they on their part solemnly consecrate themselves to him and to his entire service. To be a badge of the Christian profession. To indicate and to promote the communion of believers with Christ. To represent the mutual communion of believers with each other. It's quite similar to water immersion. I don't think that, nor the Lord's Supper is a salvation issue, but I do feel they do serve a purpose and are significant. Are we bound to rituals? No, we aren't, that too is very much the glory of Christ, and one that people too often wish to dismiss. But bondage or not aside, communion is a important aspect with the Church; in my opinion. ...Won't you please re-examine you beliefs and consider the fact that you may be WAY OFF BASE here my friend?... That's what made me both a Calvinist and a Preterist, by re-examining my beliefs. But, I appeciate your kind words and concern. I should be so lucky from my other brothers. I sometimes wonder if Paul was wrong in telling us that love will always remain. ...You shall know the truth and the truth will set you free!... Exactly! Thanks Retxar, God bless, SUEDE |
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55 | Why little sign of power in our churches | Mark 16:17 | Suede67 | 93535 | ||
Ken, ...But then the church isn't a salvation issue either... Correct! Gifts and salvation are not tied together. Neither are gifts and the church. Neither is the church and salvation. I think it's a good idea to fellowship with Christians, but it's not a salvation issue. Salvation is grace, not church attendance or having a "gift". Take care, SUEDE |
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56 | Why little sign of power in our churches | Mark 16:17 | Suede67 | 93534 | ||
Ken, Ok. Do that then. Take care, SUEDE |
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57 | Why little sign of power in our churches | Mark 16:17 | Suede67 | 93528 | ||
Hi Ken, ...You mean you believe it used to be but now you are sterile because it ceased to be, yet somehow still is and you can't figure it out. That must be very frustrating for you... I can see what you mean, but it's actually not frustrating at all. I don't buy into non Biblical prophecies, or jibber jabber talk, or being slain in the spirit. If someone wishes to believe in that, that's fine. I however don't see a Biblical proof for these things. I believe in the word of God for Churches Post 70 AD, and that's it. But I understand that it is my view. You may believe in gifts, that's fine too. It isn't a salvation issue so it's of little concern to me as a whole. Take care, SUEDE |
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58 | Why little sign of power in our churches | Mark 16:17 | Suede67 | 93514 | ||
Hank, No problem, eschatology can be a very tricky subject, but as it's a non essential for salvation, I can't blame you a bit. Spread the Gospel first and foremost. Take care, SUEDE |
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59 | Why little sign of power in our churches | Mark 16:17 | Suede67 | 93513 | ||
Christian, Thanks for writing. As far as gifts listed in 1 Cor 13:8, those have passed. Healing is a gray area. Debt cancellation I wouldn't call a "gift", but that's great that you guys are taking care of each other. A lack of gifts doesn't mean a lack of the Holy Spirit, it never did. I just believe the Bible demonstrates that they have passed. However, since it is not a salvation issue, to each their own I guess. Take care, SUEDE |
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60 | Why little sign of power in our churches | Mark 16:17 | Suede67 | 93507 | ||
Ken, Firstly, I didn't mean any offense in my past post. Sorry if it came across like that. I'm not trying to condescend anyone. I take this very seriously. So let us continue. ...It's evident by your unkind thinking in your remark that you can't separate the physical from the Spiritual... Preterism DOES seperate the two. WE are sown natural, and we are raised spiritual. Just like the Bible says. ..We expected nothing other than to be redeemed.. Exactly. ...You are the one who believes that the "church age" is somehow stuttering in it's possession of the manifestation of the Holy Spirit... No, I'm a Preterist, I believe in the ultimate Glory of it. PreMills or Disps believe that the Chruch Age ends in defeat, I do not. ...I find that it is those who think it ended in 70 a.d. to have the difficulty in believing the evidence that still exists... I really don't see much evidence though, jibber jabber and being slain in the spirit aren't evidence to me. ...No time in history has the power of God been more needed than now and you think it ended when the Apostles died... Speculation. Christianity is spread throughout the world today. This wasn't always so. In the 1st century both Rome and the Jews persecuted the Church. As for my take on Ages, there's only two in the Bible. That's it. There's no Church Age, Tribulation Age, Millenial Age, and then Eternal Age. That's too many ages and is not Biblical. ..."Olivet Discourse plus 1 Cor 13:8." Nonsense. You have to throw out the rest of the Bible to support that view. I'd get a better understanding of what the "promise" is that Jesus and Peter spoke of... It's apt. You asked how spiritual gifts like prophecy could be gone, that's how. ...John 17:19-21 (NASB)Try reading this chapter again, for the first time... Yes, beautiful passage. And not counter to Preterism or "gifts" ceasing. Take care, SUEDE |
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