Results 261 - 280 of 729
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Results from: Notes Author: charis Ordered by Date |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
261 | I don't do nothing without pay, looks to | Bible general Archive 1 | charis | 28409 | ||
Dear Grace7044, Greetings in Jesus' name! Friend, it is not true that "Only him and God knows if he has the calling." God will confirm every calling by His Word AND in the hearts of the brethren (local church). "And they went out and preached everywhere, while the Lord worked with them, and confirmed the word by the signs that followed." Mark 16:20a NASB. "Every fact is to be confirmed by the testimony of two or three witnesses." 2 Corinthians 13:1b NASB. The congregation of the church should be able to testify that this is (indeed) their shepherd, beacuse the hear his voice and know him. Blessings and wisdom in Christ Jesus, charis |
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262 | Salvation: Instantaneous, progressive? | Ps 68:19 | charis | 28263 | ||
Dear Ed, Greetings in the name of Jesus! I receive your post in the spirit given! Thank you! I guess that my question about salvation is for those that DON'T understand Greek, barely getting by in English (or Japanese). There are many that cannot grasp the concept of instantaneous complete salvation. To these it is 'theory' or 'mystical,' and the past is but a vague memory, with many shameful events clouding their vision. These folks, fellow saints, need faith today (and probably tomorrow), because yesterday's faith didn't seem (to them) to work very well. To these, progressive salvation IS salvation! No matter what the pundits say, no matter the Scripture that says the future glory is available in their hearts now because of a past confession. These need reassurance daily, and the Psalm above seems to provide this new, fresh (re)assurance. Bless you for a thoughtful post! In Christ Jesus, charis |
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263 | Salvation: Instantaneous, progressive? | Ps 68:19 | charis | 28261 | ||
Nolan, Nolan, Nolan, Peace to you in Jesus' name! Please reread my posts, all of them if you must, and tell me that you truly think I deny the cleansing work of the blood of Christ and God's assurance of eternal life at the moment of apprehension by the Holy Spirit. My friend, I am merely trying to say that some folks don't have the same intellect, the same ability to grasp faith, the same upbringing in a Christian home, the same atmosphere of Judeo-Christian faith, the same environment of relative peace, the same freedom to express feeling or faith. There are those that are not able, for one reason or another, to appropriate and apply the faith that God gives. From a minister's point of view, a person that is touched by the Lord, then immediately starts walking in a manner worthy of this calling, studying the Word, fellowshipping with the saints, responding to the call of service, seeking and manifesting his gifts, this person is a JOY! It 'appears' that the work of the Holy Spirit is done! (Frankly, I don't think I have ever met anyone truly 'done' :-)) But there are just as many, or more, that flail and struggle, stumble and fall, but get back up again and continue to trust in the work of Christ. These are not the 'golden boys,' but the somewhat 'embarrassing' Christians. But they are God's children nonetheless! And I mean NONE THE LESS! My point of describing 'apparent' salvation is for such as these. If we do not explain that the work of the Holy Spirit is ongoing, these saints will be judged (and I mean judged, not discerned) by their peers as unworthy. This is sad and wrong, but true anyway. For you, with your ability to accept by faith complete salvation, there are the Scriptures that support a 'done deal.' Good for you! :-) But for others of weaker constitution, there are Scriptures that clearly speak of God's grace being continually poured out, working afresh today and tomorrow. Their salvation is assured daily (see above Scripture), not upon a past event. Indeed, some look back with shame for their failings, and wonder if the Lord really touched them. Then they open their Bible, or hear the preached Word that says, "My son, your sins are forgiven, again. (and AGAIN!)" You may try to intellectually argue with these people that they are really 'still' saved, but they don't see it the way you do. Nolan, for myself, I see things much the way you do. But I am called to (also) see how others know salvation. I am merely trying to state my observations. I was once told that I was not called to 'relate' with people, but only to 'relay' the message. I did that for a while, but found that it did not bear fruit, but only created a bigoted church. (with MY bigotry!) Several years ago, I said 'sayonara' to that method, and have been blessed with a peace I never knew before. The peace that comes from serving God's people, not MY people. There you have it! Sorry for the inclusion of 'experience!' :-) Love and joy to you in Christ Jesus, charis |
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264 | Salvation: Instantaneous, progressive? | Ps 68:19 | charis | 28203 | ||
Dear Searcher, Greetings from Nippon in Jesus' name! So... both, right? Great research, brother! Thanks for a Scriptural answer. In Christ Jesus, charis |
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265 | Salvation: Instantaneous, progressive? | Ps 68:19 | charis | 28198 | ||
Dear Joe! Greetings in Jesus' name! Well said, sir! I agree heartily with you about heresy and false brethren. Indeed, this 'cheap grace' is available wherever a minister is yearning for 'notches on his evangelical six-gun,' basking in the numbers of 'salvations' attributed his (dead) work. If one needed a license to preach the Good News to the lost, many 'veterans' would be guilty of 'professional negligence' and have their privilege pulled! :-) Seriously, a dearth of responsibility and discernment is evident in the church these days, and spiritual arrogance and self-serving ministry is rampant! I'll try to see if this book is available in Japan. It sounds good! (I'll tell them Joe! sent me :-)) Blessings and love in Christ Jesus, charis |
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266 | Salvation: Instantaneous, progressive? | Ps 68:19 | charis | 28180 | ||
Dear Nolan, Greetings in the name of Jesus! I admit that this post 'crosses threads' with several other posts! :-) You wrote: "When a person is saved by grace through faith, there are several instantaneous facets of salvation that occur: substitution, redemption from sin, reconciliation, propitiation, forgiveness, acceptance, deliverance and cleansing from sin, justification, adoption and eternal life." I agree with most of this list, but I am not quite sure that you could include 'cleansing from sin' and 'eternal life.' True, we could 'claim' present and future cleansing (sanctification?) from sin, and the hope of eternal life is imparted to us, but the (for us) reality is not yet ours. My friend, the basis for my notion of progressive salvation is indeed from the 'experiential' viewpoint. (I recognize that it is dangerous to rely solely on experience, it is equally dangerous to think that one can be without experiential influence. No person has ever been perfectly 'Biblical,' no matter how much they claim it. :-)) In order to shepherd God's people, a minister must 'observe' others. This must be discernment, not judgment. And I have on several occasions discerned faith without manifest 'saintliness.' The alternative is to become one that says, "I'm saved, but this fellow shows forth no fruit, so he must NOT be saved." I have also seen those that made a proclamation of faith, but did not bear fruit for years, so are they not saved until the fruition? I don't think so. The result of my observations AND study of the Word is that salvation is BOTH instantaneous and progressive. You see, my friend, one may think that their salvation experience was complete on a certain date, but I CAN prove through Scripture that no one has ever been cleansed from their sin to the point of sinlessness and saintliness! I thank you for some good points, but I still see that salvation is more than a 'point in time.' Salvation is the complete relationship we have with God, sovereignly initiated by Him in grace through the unction of His Spirit, and continuing until we meet Him in glory! There are many aspects to this salvation that DO occur in an instant, in the 'twinkling of the eye,' but other aspects of our salvation are now working toward the sure completion of His will. If you want to say that "God sees it as done," it is your prerogative, but many (in my humble experience) do not have your level (or standard) of faith. :-) Peace and joy in Christ Jesus, charis |
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267 | Salvation: Instantaneous, progressive? | Ps 68:19 | charis | 28171 | ||
Dear Robert, Greetings in the name of Jesus! Well, said! At least, I agree that you agree with me! :-) I also see that there are aspects of our salvation (I will call that 'God's sovereignly-initiated relationship with an individual believer) that cannot be called only instantaneous, except maybe from God's lofty vantage. He, of course, has an all-encompassing view of these things not bound by time or emotion. Thanks for your answer! In Christ Jesus, charis |
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268 | Salvation: Instantaneous, progressive? | Ps 68:19 | charis | 28170 | ||
Dear Nolan, Greetings to you in Jesus' name! I must disagree that salvation is only instantaneous, and always accompanied by a new nature and a new life. I have heard the evangelist's boast that those that 'came forward today are completely new people.' Yet I have witnessed that such is not always the case, i.e. some do NOT change into 'completely new people.' The only conclusion I can draw from this observation is that there was either 1)no faith in those that came forth to claim salvation, or 2) salvation is both instantaneous (certain aspects) AND progressive, and that certain aspects of salvation take longer for some to manifest themselves than others. Otherwise we run the risk of calling some 'unsaved' when God HAS justified them by faith, albeit not yet manifest to "us." All I can say is that it doesn't take very long serving in a 'less desirable environment for salvation' to see this. Is it not possible that God sees that which we cannot? I really do want to bring forth the 'practical aspect' of salvation to our forum. :-) Blessings, My friend, in Christ Jesus, charis |
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269 | Salvation: Instantaneous, progressive? | Ps 68:19 | charis | 28165 | ||
Dear Hank, Greetings, my friend, in Jesus' name! I guess I already requested details in my subsequent post "What is salvation?" below. :-) I am aware that I have asked similar questions before. But I don't quite feel I have been answered squarely, so I plug on... Anyway, as a minister of the Gospel, this subject is MUCH more interesting than Cain's wife or Judas' fate. God hasn't spoken to me directly about either of THOSE, but He did speak directly to my spirit (and soul?) about my salvation! :-) And this I share daily with the lost and the saved*. (*those who have been apprehended by God and now walk His path) Peace and joy to you and yours in Christ Jesus, charis |
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270 | Salvation: Instantaneous, progressive? | Ps 68:19 | charis | 28162 | ||
Dear Emmaus, Greetings in the name of Jesus! C'mon, Brer Emmaus, don't be shy! :-) Seriously, my friend, I understand your not wanting to touch this one with a 39-1/2 foot pole. But this IS a Bible study forum, and for Christians to desire knowledge of their salvation is a worthy cause. I just don't want to get caught up in everyone stating their Cause, i.e. parroting what they learned in Sunday School or seminary. God is not simple, but salvation should be for all that He calls, the strong and the weak, the cocksure and the unsure, the high or low IQ, the learned and the educationally-challenged. Or am I barking up the wrong tree? How can we, or more approriately, WHY do we separate all the aspects of our relationship to God, except to argue!? My desire is to put together what man has sundered. Never fear, I shall continue to ask what we must do to be saved (in entirety). Blessings and peace upon you in Christ Jesus, charis |
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271 | replies from persons or "bots"? | 1 Cor 15:10 | charis | 28148 | ||
Dear Norrie (again), Sorry, I forgot to say that 'bot' is short for 'software robot.' In Christ Jesus, charis |
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272 | replies from persons or "bots"? | 1 Cor 15:10 | charis | 28147 | ||
Dear Norrie, Greetings in Jesus' name! A 'bot' is an artificial intelligence program that performs a specific task. Most 'search' engines are bots that attempt to answer your question in a (semi) intelligent manner. A 'forum bot' would be one that tries to give an answer to your question based on clues and keywords. In other words, a 'canned' answer. based on the answers we sometimes see, if there IS a 'bot' loose on this forum, it is out of wack! :-) (On a side note, I have wondered somtimes if certain posters were using some kind of software to disguise their intelligence by purposely messing up the grammar, spelling, or even the logic of their posts! So much for a 'conspiracy theory' :-)) Peace to you in Christ Jesus, charis |
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273 | Merry Christmas !! | Luke 2:11 | charis | 27966 | ||
Dear Saints, Fellows, Friends and Colleagues, Christmas Day Greetings to all, in the name of Jesus! May He be the center of each day, of each action, of each conversation, of each thought, just as He is the center of our fellowship here, the Bible, the holy Word of God! I thank God for every one of you, and pray that all be at peace this day, and all days hence. From the Land of the Rising Sun (we get Christmas before most of you! :-)), would the Risen Son bless you, and fill you, and guide your path! In Christ Jesus, charis (Randy) |
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274 | When will I speak/pray in tongues? | Acts 2:6 | charis | 27924 | ||
Dear Joe! Greetings from Japan in the name of Jesus! I guess I could tell you were not as 'cessationist' as some (others) may think! Perhaps the gift of discerning is upon me from time to time, too! ;-) Brother, I was once part of a church that demanded water baptism and tongues as evidence of the baptism of the Holy Spirit in order to be 'truly' saved. My 'heretical' questions about those not 'truly' saved got me excommunicated, after 17 years of fellowship. So, I know exactly (up close and personal!) what you mean about the abuses. Perhaps that is where some of my radical 'Jesus-centric' ideas come from. (?) In my local church, we accept the gift of speaking in tongues, but never flaunt it, focus upon it, or require it. It is simply one of the gifts that the Lord has given His church, for the glory of His church, thereby edifying God. All other gifts and ministries are treated in the same manner, and no person is lifted up, because the gifts are from God, for God, and not for personal gain or fame. And, Oh! do I agree with you about the 'sensational' (emotional, soulish?) application of these gifts and ministries, undignified and arrogant, without a picogram of true humility or responsibility! You wrote beautifully: "I do not worship the Bible as I worship God. However, I hold the Bible in the utmost place of honor and reverance in my heart as the inerrant message from that God, revealing as much of Himself as He in His wisdom has decreed that we are to know. While I, too, experience the presence of the Holy Spirit in the proclamation of His Word, in the sacraments, in prayer, and in corporate worship; that experience is solidly God-centered and based 100 percent around the book from God about God to the glory of God alone." Thank you, my colleague, and many blessings upon you and yours. In Christ Jesus, charis |
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275 | When will I speak/pray in tongues? | Acts 2:6 | charis | 27919 | ||
Dear Joe! Greetings in Jesus' name! Question: "Where is your focus, tongues speakers?" Answer from Yokohama: "...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God." Hebrews 12:2 NASB! We believe that all things of God will be in accord with the Bible, but we do not worship the Bible, or scholarship. The present-day sensitivity to the quickening of the Holy Spirit is absolutely necessary to knowing God's good intentions. Experience does not define our faith, but experience can and does encourage us in our faith, "For the word of God is living and active (today!) and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart." Hebrews 4:12 NASB. (parenthetical mine) Joe, I agree with every single word you wrote about the abuses of the gifts of the Holy Spirit! But (just maybe!), your bitterness toward these abuses has affected your ability to discern the present-day efficacy of these gifts.(?) There is at least one church I know of that practices the gifts and ministries of the Holy Spirit, yet retains thought, study, order, dignity, and the Word of God permeates every aspect of their church and home experience. This church is not perfect in this sojourn, but pursues it daily. I am sure that there are many more of this kind of church, but they don't get famous. :-) Sadly, the famous (infamous) ones are often steeped in the abuse that you decry. :-( Blessing and Love to you in Christ Jesus, charis |
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276 | HS manifestation needed for salvation? | Eph 1:13 | charis | 27795 | ||
Dear Haggisheid, Greetings from Japan in the name of Jesus! Thank you for a very good answer! I agree with all you posted here. You asked a a few posts later why I was asking this question, and I think you will find out if you browse through the 'above' thread entitled "Automatic Holy Spirit?" I have been searching for a clear, Biblical answer as to whether the Baptism of the Holy Spirit is a 'finished work' upon confessing Christ as Savior, or a 'progressive work' of sanctification. I lean toward the latter (as you seem to be leaning), but many have spoken as if it is synchonous and 'done,' or just not answered that part of the question. So... I posted a more direct question. Please read the other thread and tell me if we still might be on the same wavelength. (?) BTW, in what part of Scotland do you rest your heid? I have a good friend in Bo'ness, and have been to see Nessie. (but he was not about at the time :-)) I receive your blessings, and send mine to you and yours this bonnie season! In Christ Jesus, charis |
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277 | Automatic Holy Spirit? | Eph 1:13 | charis | 27473 | ||
Dear Joe! Greetings in the name of Jesus! My friend, I am afraid that what you ask is like asking to clarify our entire salvation experience in absolute, concrete terms. I don't think it is possible, though some are convinced that they have 'worked it all out.' You agree that they are not synonymous, but that they are both integral parts of a whole salvation experience, right? (Much like other mysteries of the Gospel, i.e. the Tri-Une God) At least, I believe that is a fair representation. Might I add to that 'whole' experience, Justification, Sanctification, Regeneration, Conversion, Repentance, Conviction, Final Judgment, Eternal Reward, and probably a few others I have either forgotten or don't know the correct dogmatic nomenclature. From the vantage of our God in heaven, these would speak of His plan for the salvation of the individual believer. Each of these concepts are Biblical representations of certain aspects of His entire work in our lives. Men have been divided about the 'timeline' of these events, combining them in different 'recipes' and 'formulae' into what often becomes the hallmark of their respective denominations or bent. In my sometimes humble (sometimes confusing?) opinion, a great deal of our quibbling is over the manner in which these 'pieces' fit into the whole. A major problem is that we are locked into an absolute 'time' system, and God is not. So, we are really concerned about synchronous and asynchronous events, while God is not. If I am awake (coffee is in my system, but not yet fully 'active' :-)) and making any sense, maybe the rest will come together. So, My point is that I do not see any 'empirical' evidence that men are regenerated and baptized in the Holy Spirit the moment that they respond to the quickening of the Holy Spirit to confess Christ as Lord and Savior. I find that to claim instantaneous 'whole work' does not fit in with the Biblical encouragement to 'work out your salvation in fear and trembling' (Philippians 2:12) and 'seek after the Holy Spirit' (Luke 11:9-13). Again, vantage and time perception are the issues I am exploring. I pray this was lucid enough to explain my thoughts, even if you don't agree with them. :-) Have a great Christmas, my friend! Blessings and peace in Christ Jesus, charis |
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278 | Automatic Holy Spirit? | Eph 1:13 | charis | 27423 | ||
Dear Nolan and Hank, Greetings in Jesus' name! Friends, I cannot help but agree with you that there is evidence of the working of the Holy Spirit in our lives that leads to salvation. Otherwise, who would receive 'credit' for our justification? However, I still do not see this as a synonymous and synchronous 'done deal.' There is too much empirical evidence that many of those who are touched by the Lord to confess Christ are not yet partakers of the gifts and the fruit of the Holy Spirit. While there are those that have deep conviction and faith in God from 'moment one,' there are just as many (more?) that struggle with literally every step in their walk with the Lord Jesus. They manifest little or no evidence of what the Bible describes as the fruit of the Spirit. Some battle for years until a 'breakthrough,' some gradually 'clean up their act,' some are in and out of church all their lives, and some walk away and return to their physical point of origin. Yet many of these continue to lean on the everlasting arms of Jesus! Are they saved? I cannot deny their salvation! Are they filled with the Holy Spirit, and immersed in Him? It would be hard to prove! After several years ministering to the homeless, the mentally-challenged, the elderly, and the infirm, then coming to a heathen nation and dealing with social hostility and anti-Christian bigotry, I cannot see this doctrine as clear-cut as you might. I would either have to deny salvation to the weak (little faith means no faith?) or proclaim a glorious relationship with God that had no evidence whatsoever. Please understand that I am NOT saying (as some Pentecostals would) that the indwelling or baptism of the Holy Spirit is completely separate from salvation, and that certain external signs or rites are necessary for salvation (i.e. tongues or water baptism). I am simply saying that I do not see it as synonymous and synchronous, that God's sense of time is different from our own. Well, that's it for me. Blessings and love to you in Christ Jesus, charis |
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279 | Automatic Holy Spirit? | Eph 1:13 | charis | 27350 | ||
My friend kalos, Greetings and love to you in the name of Jesus! I know! I know! :-) If we were to only have this one Scripture to describe the relationship between the indwelling or baptism of the Holy Spirit and our salvation (or justification), it would be cut and dry! And there are several others, too! "For He whom God has sent speaks the words of God; for He gives the Spirit without measure." John 3:34 NASB, for instance. But there are many, many Scriptures that link the baptism of the Holy Spirit with the ongoing work of sanctification, with our walk in Christ. I see so many that have gone before God on their knees with tears and confession, yet their subsequent walk is anything but Spirit-led. I cannot glibly 'write them off' as not-yet-really-saved. Many of these, do come to a place of 'conversion,' at which time the fruit of the Spirit begins to manifest itself. Then I have seen those that bear much evidence of salvation, yet fall away due to one testing or another. I guess I am saying, my good friend, that though I DO see the Scripture pointing to regeneration by the Holy Spirit upon justification, I see little temporal evidence to support it. And, as a minister of the Gospel, I cannot lightly deny salvation to those that are not presently showing forth the fruit of the Spirit. Do I have an all-encompassing 'conclusion?' No, I don't. I will trust that the Spirit is upon all who confess Christ, but that many are not walking in accord with He who is with them. I also (paradoxically?) believe that all believers should pursue an 'immersion' into the things of the Holy Spirit. To me, the alternative is to believe in 'one or the other' to the exclusion of many Biblical tenets. Thank you for being the first to clearly and Biblically answer the original question! :-) Blessings and peace in Christ Jesus, charis |
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280 | Automatic Holy Spirit? | Eph 1:13 | charis | 27341 | ||
Dear karlgraff, Greetings in the name of Jesus! Great observation! If I may add only that the Bible does give us some outline on how to be led by the Holy Spirit to discern (not judge!) the hearts of others for the purpose of shepherding and care in the church. These gifts of discernment are never to be used for 'private' purposes or boasting, but for the glory of God in His body. For this we are given the authority and responsibility of godly discipline in the church. As you state, this is not a telescope! (or a microscope! :-)) Peace and love to you in Christ Jesus, charis |
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