Results 21 - 40 of 292
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Author: bowler Ordered by Date |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
21 | is it ok to lie in certain cases | Col 3:9 | bowler | 207977 | ||
Hank Yeah it is late. Things to do. Here is that link I keep on yammering on about. http://gospelpedlar.com/articles/God/god_evil.html I appreciate your concerns and I hear you about Ty Ty's prayer. I still would like to know from anyone, what their take is on David, Jonathon, Rahab and why no one including God had anything to say to them about them lying to save lives as if that were bad. Plenty here say something about that, but the Bible is strangely silent about it as if it were some how a non issue in the face of what they did to save lives. God does not deliver us from every single situation, He often calls us to make hard decisions and does not provide a way out. 1 Samuel 27:1-12, 1 Samuel 29:4-8, 1 Samuel 30:1-6 1 Samuel 21:1-6, 1 Samuel 20:1-42, Joshua 2:1-24, 6:22-24, Judges 16:4-17, Exodus 1:15-20, Exodus 2:1-3 - In each and every case a sin of commission or of ommission was committed to save lives, lives that were within God's plans to be saved, and there was never going to be a plan B, there was only plan A. Another good example is David and Bathsheba, there was only plan A, Solomon came from an adulteress relationship whether we think it was right or not, which I do not, but there was never going to be a plan B by God to bring it about. See that link of Doc's above to see why that is even possible on any level. blessings abound, bowler |
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22 | Did God create evil? | 3 John 1:11 | bowler | 207975 | ||
Doc Thanks for that. blessings abound, bowler |
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23 | is it ok to lie in certain cases | Col 3:9 | bowler | 207973 | ||
Steve You said “I would say to you that you are right God's laws are never limited and they are absolute. But by the same token whatever He decides will happen are righteous and holy decisions that may include all kinds of things that His laws state are not righteous and holy - He never contradicts the law because He is perfect.” Then how is it you reason He ordained they would lie? I’m not sure you even understand your own argument. Your heart tells you that He is a holy God, perfect in all His ways which we are clearly taught in Scripture. But you reason like a fallen man! I’m guilty of this too so don’t take the statement the wrong way. My intentions in our discussion are not to condemn and I know first hand the struggle of understanding His ways. But I have to ask, are you even thinking your way through before commenting? Yes I am thinking my way through this before answering, please see the link Doc gave me to try to understand that the reasoning is not that God "condones sin", but that allowing it is all part of His plan, and whatever is in His plan He ordains, or it does not happen. The link says some very interesting and illuminating things about why the fall was ever allowed, why sin itself was ever allowed - they are part of God's plan. Before I studied what Doc tried to explain to me, I had trouble with this whole concept myself. But this is about what He pointed out to me - If we say that anything were able to happpen which God has not ordained than He is no longer a Sovereign God with sovereign power over all things, - it would be like saying something has more power than God to affect, or effect something to be able to happen - if that indeed can be true then God is not any longer God, but less than God. Think about that one for a while if you please while you try that link down there. I finaly hunted down for you what I keep referring to that Doc laid on me about Secondary Causes which serves to explain some of what I have been talking about - http://gospelpedlar.com/articles/God/god_evil.html I can see from your post you are still stuck on that you think, mistakenly that I am condoning lying as right, as that "doing good" is breaking the Law. Do you really believe that since "How much more valuable then is man than sheep! So then, it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath"? Please tell me how saving someone's life is any different than this example that Jesus gave? I am not interested so very much in the technical terms of whatever gets done to save a life as "breaking the law" as opposed to "doing what is lawful". What I keep trying to say is that saving a life is right and worrying about how your righteousness meter is measuring up because you keep all the laws is not in the face of saving that life. If it is a fallacy for man to think that he had to lie to save a life then how come no one, including God never confronted David or Rahab or Johanthon for lying to do so? How come Rahab was not condemned for doing so? How come none of them were? Parting thought; if there was only plan A which God ordained, and if that plan included sin, then how is it that God did not ordain sin in some sense or another to be able to happen? Or else there would be a plan B, which there is not and never shall be. blessings abound, bowler |
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24 | is it ok to lie in certain cases | Col 3:9 | bowler | 207971 | ||
Tim Moran The isssue is not whether or not God will deliver and trusting Him. The issue is that He does not always choose to as is shown by scripture to be true, and in cases such as those what would we have done? God does not deliver us from every single situation, He often calls us to make hard decisions and does not provide a way out. The concept is not why we should condone sin, the concept is as Jesus was showing the Pharisees that their concept of law keeping was flawed and that they would seek to do that which was more right in a dire situation, that we may be called upon to do the same thing. Steve said something intereseting. He said that Jesus was showing the Pharisees that to save a life by exertion on the (paraphrasing) Sabbath was not breaking the law, it was right to do. Now technically they would have to break the Sabbath to save the life, but according to Jesus it is no longer wrong to do. I think perhaps God has never placed you and some others in a situation where you did not have any options that were good and there was no time left to wait it out to see if God would deliver. Immediate death of someone else may not wait for you to hear or see from God, then what do you do? God's will is good, and complete and holy, but He promised us suffering, not good times. We are never going to be as holy as God, or as holy as we would like to be, we strive for that. Look again at David, he was a man after God's own heart who did a lot of things besides his two major sins to survive, and you never hear of God saying that was wrong David, only on the two great sins. Just a thought. blessings abound, bowler |
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25 | is it ok to lie in certain cases | Col 3:9 | bowler | 207970 | ||
Steve No, Steve I said that Jesus pointed out that the Pharisees would break a law to save a life, not that Jesus would or did! By the way I am not as Cheri pointed out so nicely teaching anything, I am setting forth a view without pushing it on anyone of how to resolve a Biblical difficulty to a life problem, which is not teaching at all, it is studying. I do believe you are hitting around to the point here Steve, you say here in your post what Jesus was demonstrating was that doing right on the Sabbath is not actually breaking the law, although on a technicality it most certainly is. That is why I was so wrongly adding to all my posts, according to you, just a worthless son, to make it known that I do not have all the answers because someone who will remain nameless accused me of thinking I had all the answers. A while badk Tumbleweed tried to point that out to you. It still seems to be a problem for some when anyone in here sets forth what they believe to be true using scripture to support it. Just because a person sets forth reasons and scriptures why they think something is true does not make them a teacher or mean they are trying to teach. Doc is a bona fide teacher, and there are pastors in here too, as well as us lay folk. We are all entitled to our own view based on scriputure of what things are. I happily agree to disagree with you without saying to you that you wrongly interpet anything. You however, continue to feel free to express yourself concerning your true take on what I post because that is your right. I tried to say before and will say again, the problem with saying God does not allow sin in His plan is that there is such a thing as Secondary Causes of Causes, which concept Doc laid out in detail. Might I suggest you use the search feature to try to understand how God does not condone sin, but does allow it as part of His plan. I did not come up with all of this on my own, and as well there are others here who agree with me about this because they searched the scriptures and not because "I taught them anything". On a technicality lying is always wrong, but when it is done to save a life it is no longer wrong, but right in the same way "breaking the Sabbath law" to save a life is no longer wrong, but right. :-) blessings abound, bowler |
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26 | is it ok to lie in certain cases | Col 3:9 | bowler | 207968 | ||
Azure I meant you no harm and was not trying to say you said that. I was asking if you were willing to ignore what Jesus said, not saying you did, but asking. blessings abound, bowler |
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27 | is it ok to lie in certain cases | Col 3:9 | bowler | 207967 | ||
Val Thank you Val. I really do believe that there are higher goods and lesser sins, although I have to admit that that concept of lessers sins has some problems with it. For instance if we break one sin, we break them all, so how could there be a lesser or a greater sin? Do you have any information or thoughts on this troublesome area of things Val? Mathew 7:13 Enter through the narrow gte; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction. blessings abound, bowler |
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28 | Do i always have to ask for forgiveness? | Matt 5:23 | bowler | 207922 | ||
Mathew 5:23, 24 Therefore if you are presenting your offering at the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, leave your offering there before the altar and go; first be reconciled to your brother, and then come and present your offering. blessings abound bowler |
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29 | is it ok to lie in certain cases | Col 3:9 | bowler | 207920 | ||
Azure I already pointed out in the cases of Rahab and Jonathon that it was the saving of lives that God accounted as right, and that they lying was not mentioned in the Bible as also being condoned. I was not condoning lying, but saving lives. Are you going to ignore what Jesus told the Pharisees? That they would of course break the law to save a life and that according to Jesus that was the right thing to do? Where did I say lying was right? I said to look at Doc's posts wherein he outlines the theological concept of God's use of Second Causes which sometimes includes man sinning to get done what He alone ordains by plan A because there is no plan B. I am not advocating lying. The entire problem here goes well beyond a simple it is wrong it is right outlook of what a Christian should do, as Jesus pointed out it is right to break a lesser law to save a life. Jesus was not merely showing Pharisees their sin, He was saying that they were hypocrites because anyone in their right mind would do what is necessary to save a life, even break a Ten Commandment that holds lesser weight than preserving a life. How often did Jesus say to the Pharisees that there law keeping of lesser things was not truly righteous. They had laws they made up and laws God made up and Jesus made a point of showing them that they once again were concerened about jots and tittles and were missing the larger intent of the law, which was not keeping jots and tittles in order to be righteous. It was to honor the "intent" of God's laws which could be summed up in two commandments - the Love the Lord they God with all your heart, all your soul, and all your mind, and love your neighbor as yourself - as He said all the other laws are summed up by these two. Therefore it is not right to allow someone to be murdered because you are so very concerned about lying, it is right, however to do what is in your power to do to save them because the excercise of love towards God and man in preserving a life that God preciously created is more important than maintaining the appearance of personal righteousness, whether virtual or real, keeping that does not trump saving a life. That is not condoning sin, it is choosing a higher commmandment by which to make a decisoin saving God's precious creation over lying. We are not law keepers, the love of Christ prevails over the law. The blood of Jesus is efficasious to cover as smaller sin of lying over being complicit in murder. The concept of saving a life over lying does not lend itself to other less dire reasons to lie, this is not about laying down normative principles of Christian behavior that lying is right. That is taking what I said way out of context. If you had to choose and God did not provide a way out for you, did not provide you another option; would you save the life or hold on to your righteous ability to not lie? God does not always provide a way out. "No temptation has overtaken you but such as is common to man; and God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will provide the way of escape also, so that you will be able to endure it. " This text is often misused to pressupose that God will make a way out of any situation as if "temptation" is referring to anything but what it means - to be tempted by a "desire" to sin, not a dire situation you cannot get out of. God did not allow David to escape from Saul for 13 years while he was on the run, God did not provide a way out when David had no choice by the run to Ziklag where he had to slaughter whole towns so that the ruler there would not discover David was lying to his face to survive, the lives of 600 plus people under David's resonsiblity were at stake. God did not provide a way out for any of the sticky situations David was in within which David resorted to subterfuge in various situations to survive until Saul was dead. God does not always provide an avenue where you will be able to do everything right. If he has done so for you, then God bless you. There are plently of people who have endured war time as civilians who did things to survive, it was either do what is necessary to survive or die. I do not think anyone except Jesus is so noble as to be able to endure all things the way He did that God would allow to happen. The Bible teaches that we are to strive and struggle with our salvation and to suffer for the sake of Christ. It does not say that we are supppossed to allow others to die so that we can appear to be righteous people simply for the sake of keeping God's laws. That is what Jesus was saying to the Pharisees. blessings abound, bowler |
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30 | is it ok to lie in certain cases | Col 3:9 | bowler | 207913 | ||
Steve I agree that God's laws are perfect and absolute. But what about Rahab? What are we to think? What if laying down your life for the person someone else is trying to kill is not an option being laid out on the table, like Jonathon's lie of ommission in letting David go free when Saul was trying to kill him? Question; according to scripture was Rahab's motive to save her own hide? Yes, and to recognize God. Question was Jonathon's motive to save his own hide? No, it was to save David's and recognize David's right to be the future king of Israel. Both had their actions approved by God and that included lying, although the scriptures do not say that God condoned that particular part. But since there was never going to be plan B, then God ordained that they would lie, whether that was a sin or not, to save some lives that were central to God's plan that they remain alive; all of Israel through the actions of 4 spies to take Jericho, and David to be king of Israel. I am not saying God condones sin, but He used it to His own ends. That makes me think hard about Bathsheba, there was never going to be a plan B, David's adulterous relationship was always going to result in Solomon, of the direct lineage of Jesus. God chose not to do it any other way, and that involved two sins, murder and adultery. Man is still responible for his sins, whatever they are, they will be punished, but sin is also part of God's plan. Doc turned me on to a whole bunch of posts on this, but I can't find them right now. I think if you type "Secondary Causes" or "Causes as Secondary Causes" or some such you will be able to find it. Interesting stuff. This also makes me think about the woman who got caught by the Germans for hiding Anne Frank. If I have the story right, she never spent even one day suffering, or being punished in any way for hiding Anne Frank by the Germans. Her motive was not self protection in lying by ommission and illegaly hiding Jews. Someone correct me if I am wrong. I would say to you that you are right God's laws are never limited and they are absolute. But by the same token whatever He decides will happen are righteous and holy descisions that may include all kinds of things that His laws state are not righteous and holy - He never contradicts the law because He is perfect. Question; why would you assume that God would be pleased that you stood on Biblical principle and refused to lie as if that were a better good than saving a life just to save a life by lying? Which one is worse lying, or being complicit in murder? That reminds me of a certain group of people that believed you could not do anything on the Sabbath because it was one of the Ten Commandment sins, as is lying, but Jesus said to them, "which one of you would not break the law to save the life of his live stock if it fell down the well?" to paraphrase that is the jist of what He meant. I think that says it all right there. I think we should be willing to consider that there are higher goods and acts than law keeping and preservation of somebody elses life might be one of them. Luke 14:5 And He said to them, "Which one of you will have a son or an ox fall into a well, and will not immediately pull him out on a Sabbath day?" blessings abound, bowler |
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31 | Did God create evil? | 3 John 1:11 | bowler | 207902 | ||
Flinty Joe Please take the time to read the following post numbers in order scrolling down - 2, 3, 8 - all by Doc, and 5 by Kalos - you will find these by typing the word "theodicy" in the upper right hand corner in the search function. Doc and Kalos make a great big dent in answering your concerns here as your questions fall under the area of study called theodicy. I particularly like the part where Doc addresses the issue of that God has provided for us to know "what to do", but has absolutely no reason or responsibility toward us to provide a "why things are so". Job 38:1-15 Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind and said, "Who is this that darkens counsel By words without knowledge? "Now gird up your loins like a man, And I will ask you, and you instruct Me! "Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth? Tell Me, if you have understanding, Who set its measurements? Since you know. Or who stretched the line on it? "On what were its bases sunk? Or who laid its cornerstone, When the morning stars sang together And all the sons of God shouted for joy? "Or who enclosed the sea with doors When, bursting forth, it went out from the womb; When I made a cloud its garment And thick darkness its swaddling band, And I placed boundaries on it And set a bolt and doors, And I said, 'Thus far you shall come, but no farther; And here shall your proud waves stop'? "Have you ever in your life commanded the morning, And caused the dawn to know its place, That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, And the wicked be shaken out of it? "It is changed like clay under the seal; And they stand forth like a garment. "From the wicked their light is withheld, And the uplifted arm is broken. blessings abound, bowler |
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32 | is it ok to lie in certain cases | Col 3:9 | bowler | 207896 | ||
walkforchrist Revelation 21:8 "But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death." We should not lie. I have heard arguments about this like; Rahab the Harlot lied and it was suppossedly accounted to her for righteousness. I dunno, her hiding the spies in peace was counted as righteous, but the Bible does not say the lying was. I have heard the ridiculous argument that Exodus 20:16 only refers to that you should not lie against your neighbor, but that it is okay to lie if you think it would make things better. Consider this problem though; in Natzi Germany if some of those Germans had not lied about hiding some of those Jews that would not have been a good thing. So if we say that it is right when it protects a life, what are we to think really? If someone wips out a gun and says they are looking for so and so, and you don't lie to protect them is that good? The problem with thinking it is all right because you want to save a life is the Bible is clear that lying is out. But some say, choose the lesser evil, being trouble with God for lying to save a life, over telling the truth and being partially repsonsible for their death. Then there are sins of ommission, where we lie by leaving part out and think it isn't lying for real. If it was me, just speaking for myself, I would lie to save a life, but not to fix every day problems big or small. Although I am quite sure I have been guilty of it anyhow. When we stand to lose something do we trust God to have our backs and fix things? Or do we lie? Question; what is a "right motive" for lying? blessings abound, bowler |
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33 | Offended by a Christian | Matt 18:35 | bowler | 207894 | ||
Milen Very often those who keep on sinning are not going to listen to you anyway, they are convinced they are doing okay and that their sins are automatically forgiven by God. Here is a scripture you might be able to use to refute his constant referring to Mathew 18:35 as a reason why he keeps on going. But he might never stop sinning in this way you are describing. 1 John 3:5-10 Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness. You know that He appeared in order to take away sins; and in Him there is no sin. No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him. Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother. Here is another scripture about reprimanding those who are suppossedly believers who don't listen. Mathew 18:15-17 "If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. "But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that BY THE MOUTH OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES EVERY FACT MAY BE CONFIRMED. "If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. This might be of use in refuting his claims on forgiveness. 2 Timothy 3:1-5 But realize this, that in the last days difficult times will come. For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, revilers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy, unloving, irreconcilable, malicious gossips, without self-control, brutal, haters of good, treacherous, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, holding to a form of godliness, although they have denied its power; Avoid such men as these. Hope this helps. blessings abound, bowler |
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34 | If you draw close to God? | James 4:8 | bowler | 207791 | ||
Jesus Keeps Me It is in James 4:8. James 4:10 Humble yourselves in the presence of the Lord, and He will exalt you. blessings abound, bowler |
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35 | Why is death God's enemy? | 1 Cor 15:25 | bowler | 207789 | ||
Doc, Very interesting post there Doc. I learned it this way - Supralapsarianism - the fourth one is scripturally wrong. 1 The decree to save some and condemn others. 2 The decree to create both. 3 The decree to premit the fall of both. 4 The decree to provide salvation only for the elect. Infralapsarianism - the fourth one is scripturally wrong. 1 The decree to create human beings. 2 The decree to permit the fall. 3 The decree to save some and condemn others. 4 The decree to provide salvation only for the elect. Subplapsarianism - the third one is scripturally wrong. 1 The decree to create human beings. 2 The decree to permit the fall. 3 The decree to provide salvation sufficient for all. 4 The decree to elect some. Arminianism - the second and the third one are scripturally wrong. 1 God desires all to be saved. 2 All have the ability to believe and to meet the conditions of salvation. 3 God predesitines and elects based on who He knows will choose Him. My Pastor Teacher's Take On It. 1 Man is totally depraved and without God's initiation and intervention no one would believe - the decree to permit the fall. 2 God's foreknowledge means He knew beforehand who would choose but He ordained who would choose - the decree to save some and condemn others. 3 God's election and foreknowledge are not dependant on man's choosing but do not violate man's choosing of his own volition - the foreordination and foreknowledge of God do not absolve man of the responsibility to choose. 4 God's choosing and calling are not by coercion or force but by persuasion - God draws men wooeing them to Him by perusasion. 5 Christ's death was to provide salvation for all men but not all men are called to salvation - the decree to provide the opportunity for salvation to absolutely everybody does not mean God will save all. 6 All are welcome to come but only those who respond according to God's foreordination by irresistible grace come - the decree that all have been offered salvation but only some are foreordained and drawn by irresistible grace. 7 Where scripture stops so must we some things about the eternal purposes of God have not been revealed to us - whatever we do not understand about 1-6 has not been revealed to us in scripture and should not presuppose that we can speculate as to how to reconcile seeming contradictions which are not contradictory but are facets of God's will and plan. Job 42:2 I know that you can do all things, and that no purpose of Yours can be thwarted. Romans 11:33 Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and unfathomable His ways! blessings abound, bowler blessinsg abound, bowler |
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36 | hebrews 9:27 | Hebrews | bowler | 207775 | ||
son of god Genesis 5:24 Ehoch walked with God; and he was not, for God took him. The text says Enoch walked - the word can also mean behaved and passed away. The text says Enoch was not - the word can also mean not exist. The text says God took him - the word took can also mean carry away or fetch. The text could possibly mean that Enoch behaved with God and passed away because God carried him away, fetched him. But Hebrews is not unclear like that, Hebrews says this; Hebrews 11:5 By faith Enoch was taken up so that he would not see death; AND HE WAS NOT FOUND BECAUSE GOD TOOK HIM UP; for he obtained the witness that before his being taken up he was pleasing to God. According to the Bible Enoch was no longer found because he did not taste death. That would mean that it appears Enoch was an exeption to Hebrews 9:27. 2 Kings 2:11, 12 As they were going along and talking, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire and horses of fire which separated the two of them. And Elijah went up by a whirlwind to heaven. Elisha saw it and cried out, "My father, my father, the chariots of Israel and its horsemen!" And he saw Elijah no more. Then he took hold of his own clothes and tore them in two pieces. The text says Elijah ascended into heaven, was taken away, and was seen no more. This is another example of an exception that it appears God made to Hebrews 9:27. But did He really make an exception? Maybe not. Luke 9:30, 31 And behold, two men were talking with Him; and they were Moses and Elijah, who, appearing in glory, were speaking of His departure which He was about to accomplish at Jerusalem. Notice that Moses and Elijah appeared in a state of glory, they had been glorified to a certain degree. 1 Corinthians 15:40 There are also heavenly bodies and earthly bodies, but the glory of the heavenly is one, and the glory of the earthly is another. I do believe it is safe to say that when one goes to heaven there is a heavenly body that gets put on. 1 Corinthians 15:50 Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. Somehow it is not possible for flesh and blood to be in heaven, and there are fleshly bodies and heavenly bodies. 1 Corinthians 15:51-53 Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but WE WIIL ALL be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality. Somewhere in there we will all be changed at the last trump, all the dead flesh will put on the imperishable new heavenly body. There is no reason to think that Enoch and Elijah will be left out of that because somehow there is no way for their flesh bodies to be in heaven as flesh bodies, some change must have taken place we are not told about. Otherwise these other scriptures cannot apply to ALL, as in "we all will be changed". Elijah, Enoch, and Moses still have to be changed one more time, they need their immortal bodies to endure eternal life, that requires this - 1 Corinthians 15:35-38 You fool! That which you sow does not come to life unless it dies; and that which you sow, you do not sow the body which is to be, but a bare grain, perhaps of wheat or of something else. But God gives it a body just as He wished, and to each of the seeds a body of its own. Since this text is true that in order for there to be eternal life, there must first be the death of the flesh, that must apply to everyone. Jesus is the type for us, if He had to die, if His flesh had to die to go to eternal life, then so do all of us, no exceptions. On that basis alone it seems as if Enoch and Elijah had to have lost their flesh unto death in some sort of quick transition that we don't understand. The Brenton Bible says this - And Enoch was well-pleasing to God, and was not found, because God translated him. According to this translation God changed him. blessings abound, bowler |
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37 | once saved always saved? | John 10:28 | bowler | 207766 | ||
Azure, I was away sorry for the long delay in answering you. Why I do believe you are right in one sense and so am I! Question; could a person repent to God the Father without having "faith in Jesus for the forgiveness of their sins"? I doubt it. Which is more what I meant by saying you should repent to Jesus. So many people think they are saved who repented to God, but did not do it in the name of Jesus, do not believe in Jesus and so on - that is what I was referring to, that a person should not just repent to the Father and leave Jesus out of the picture. On the other hand if you repent to Jesus alone, He and the Father are one, you are repenting to God the Father through faith in Jesus. I think what I was trying to say and what you are saying actually kind of go together. But I do see what you are saying that the model we find in the Bible is repenting to the Father in the name of Jesus. John 6:40 "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day." blessings abound, bowler |
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38 | Why is death God's enemy? | 1 Cor 15:25 | bowler | 207765 | ||
Doc Well thank you very much for that! I agree with everything I read in the this essay exept I had one itsy bitsy problem with the concept of resolving the whole she-bang with Supralapsarianism. The reason is only one, the last part of that view, not in the article, but in the view itself, states that the decree to provide salvation was only for the elect. Yet, the Bible gives us scriptures stating that Christ's death was for the whole world and so on. I do agree with the concepts of irresistible grace and with God's sovereign election of men to be saved. I personally have just never been able to reconcile those scriptures which state that to many is given the offer of salvation but few are called, with that, Jesus died for the whole world. I believe both are true, but that we can't understand the theology of how God does that, as they are not contradictory, but both are true. Thanks again for a wonderful link. 1 John 2:2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world. Mathew 22:14 "For many are called, but few are chosen." blessings abound, bowler |
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39 | Heb6:4-6 Loosing salvation or what? | Heb 6:4 | bowler | 207743 | ||
Beja I rushed back in the house because I just realized what you might have thought the barb was!!!! My little verse in signing off on that last note I posted you goes to "context"! It was not meant as anything but a clue to you. I will read the whole thing including Tim Moran's "solution". blessings abound, bowler |
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40 | Heb6:4-6 Loosing salvation or what? | Heb 6:4 | bowler | 207738 | ||
Beja Oh my Jesus, I meant no such barb to you, having truly, as I said, I have not yet had a chance to read the whole "thread" as you call it. I am truly dissapointed about this I really had something constructive to say to you, and not in the way of telling you that you "do not truly believe in once saved, always saved", and not in the way of "getting you to see the truth" either. I am highly dissapointed, I must say by the content of your post here, but not at all in you, or any one else, but that somehow a purely exegetical question asked on the grounds of using critical forms to deduce a satisfying conclusion somehow digressed from your seeming intent into something, I don't know. I truly apologoze to you and anyone I may have inadvertantly offended, I have not as yet read all of the "thread". I simply choose some notes and answers to read and a very few of your repplies to try to see the jist of what got discussed. I have been gone for three days and had not at all seen this until I got back late last night from our annual church retreat. I am sorry myself, again, to see this post, you had very valid grammatical and historical concerns about this text and made it clear in the beginning your intent; that this was not about whether or not you believe the truth, because you do, but that it was about "getting to the heart of the true context", which I wanted to discuss with you today! I may actually have an answer for that! Alas! I will read the whole thread to try and understand what happened. But, I will respect your wishes and leave off posting at all about it with you, and for that matter with anyone else out of respect. I would like you to consider, just so you may know that I meant no barb to you, post number 207418, as to my intent in wanting to post to you. I would also like to know is there some way off line from here we could communicate about this? I also believe the same thing you do about this passage and have a valid Bible study concern for getting the context first in order to try to see what a passage is really talking about, and based on that have one solution for you. I also have another site for you where you could discuss things like this on the level you have been trying to do, where exegesis in an orthodox sense of that term is the point of all discussions. 2 Timothy 2:15 Be diligent to present yourself approved of God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth. Ephesians 4:3 Being diligent to preserve the unity of the body in the Spirit in the bond of peace. blessings abound, bowler |
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