Results 21 - 26 of 26
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Author: Wlerin Ordered by Date |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
21 | filled with holy spirit? | Rom 8:13 | Wlerin | 121281 | ||
Here... both of ye... (Hank and WTB) http://www.geocities.com/ian4christ41/altindex.html I agree with both of ye, partway. I don't know if I totally agree with this guy either, but he explains the origin of the "tongues have ceased" fallacy. Also, Hank, consider, carefully, the meaning of I Cor 14:40 |
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22 | filled with holy spirit? | Rom 8:13 | Wlerin | 121279 | ||
My only real point was that the tongues spoken by the 120 and in the other two instances are spoken of in the same words (the only difference being of small import, considering how long Luke's letter is), thus, I disagreed with the fact that ye used different words to describe the first. As I said, petty. However, as for the rest of it, I was trying to show that the real sign of the Holy Spirit's filling is testifying, confessing Christ, that is acknowledging His sacrifice, and His greatness, and sovereignty, and rejoicing in this. Whether this is done through tongues (as with the 120), through prophecy, through words of knowledge, the goal of the Spirit is to lift up Christ. Anyway, yes, tongues is a .... gift, and we should seek it, but even more so seek to prophesy, and even beyond that, we should seek Love. I have a tendency, dealing with such things as tongues and prophecy, to become incensed and go overboard with my denunciations. In any argument, in fact, I often become polarized to one side or the other, rather than to the truth. This is a failing of mine, and I ask forgiveness. Also, note 1 Cor 14:40. Okay, yeah... case closed |
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23 | filled with holy spirit? | Rom 8:13 | Wlerin | 121270 | ||
To Leonore; Hank, and WTB Firstly, Leonore, I want to warn you. This subject about which we are, essentially, arguing, is not one of the foundational principles of following Christ, which are, according to Heb. 6:1-2 1) Turning from (faith in) dead works to faith in God (His sacrifice, His love for you, and His ability to both save and cleanse you, and to give to you a righteousness that will not fade), 2a) Instruction about washings (baptism and washing of feet) 2b) and about laying on of hands 3a) the resurrection of the dead 3b) and eternal judgment. I highly suggest, if you have not already (I didn't read all of your posts) that you read and study Romans, preferably with the NAS, supplemented by the AMP, if ye wish. One thing Hank said was unbalanced and I must address it: Yes, our experiences can be misleading, but the saints of old relied on BOTH the promises (not yet fulfilled) of God, and the works He had done, both in ancient times and in their own lives. God teaches us not only through the written word, but also through the reflections of the Word (which is Christ - the Spirit not the letter) found in our lives, in His creation, in everything. For the Law and the Prophets spoke of Christ, they taught of and pointed to Christ. The Bible contains the most pure, unspoilt and trustworthy shadow of the Word, but it is still a shadow, and there are many other ways in which God speaks to us, even through feelings and experiences. Hank is correct in that it is dangerous to rely ONLY on feelings or experiences for our light, or even primarily, but within them, seen through the light of the Spirit. I must cease, or I will start to argue again. Hank (and partly WTB). I realize (or think) that you are a moderator, however, this issue is not at all helpful to argue about, nor does it belong here (except by a very cracky tangent...hmm... cracky, er, yeah). It is not something that will deny to Leonore her salvation if she chooses in error, but confusion might cause her much pain. And...Christ through Paul told every church to be in agreement among themselves (and to a larger degree with all the churches). On this issue, Leonore needs to seek the counsel of her own fellowship, and follow their example, even as they follow Christ. I would love to dispute many of your points (and almost did) (to qualify or add to them, not negate them), just not here. |
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24 | filled with holy spirit? | Rom 8:13 | Wlerin | 121266 | ||
Concerning that last article 1 Cor 12:4-11 supports the first part, with "to each one individually just as he wills." There is no mention of the last ("never intended to be characteristic of the lives of believers"). 1 Cor 13:8-10 Love Never Fails Now, then, knowledge and prophecy will be done away, and tongues will cease when the perfect comes. Has the perfect come even now? Certainly, even at the Cross, "It is finished". But, we do not yet see that perfection. So, the perfect has not yet come in fullness, it remains "partial", so the revelatory gifts still have a place. Why they have been so long silent (if they have been at all)? I do not know. It is not, however, because the perfect has come, but perhaps we now wait in a sort of second inter-testamental silent period. See also Eph. 4:13, below. 2 Cor 12:12 - signs of a true apostle were performed ... with all perseverance, by signs and wonders and miracles. Yes, these signs were to authentic the apostles. As were the signs of Christ. Why were the signs of Christ not sufficient for the apostles, when the apostles signs are enough for us? And, not only the apostles performed sign miracles, but also Philip, Stephen, and, considering I Cor 14:26-33,39; 12:8-12, 28-31 (especially 14:39 and 12:31) then prophecy, tongues, miracles, and healings occurred in EVERY church (14:33 - indicating that the rules here expounded were followed in all the churches. Why should they be necessary if there were no prophecies, nor interpretation?) Eph 4:12-13: ...for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ; (verse 13:) until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ. Yes, exactly. Note "unity of the faith", "[unity] of the knowledge of the Son of God", "to a mature man", "the fulness of Christ". Perhaps some attained to this (as, for example, Stephen, right before he was stoned) but the vast majority throughout Christianity have not (in this world's realm), thus, for them and for us, the perfect was not yet come. Heb 2:1,3-4 ...pay much closer attention to the things that have been heard, so that we do not drift away, which was at the first spoken through the Lord, it was confirmed to us by those who heard, God also testifying with them, both by signs and wonders and by various miracles and by gifts of the Holy Spirit according to His own will. "Those who heard" could mean also any who received the Spirit by "the hearing of faith". However, as far as new revelations go, it is the things already revealed that are of chief importance, for they "belong to us and to our children" (Deut 29:29), and "the secret things (mysteries) belong to God", to reveal in His time and His choosing. We do not have the full revelation (as some maintain). But nevertheless we must be careful to keep what we do have. If a man receives one of the sign miracles, this article, against which I argue, would undermine his faith. It is not supported by the Scriptures. To Leonore, who started this: As for being filled with the Spirit, there are many other good verses in Acts (be certain to read the context and pray over them), which any good concordance will help you find. (Look primarily for "filled" in the NT). There are several online bible-search-engines, such as that at www.biblegateway.com, which will also help. (Don't use this site, you'll get all the "filled"s in notes and questions too.) |
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25 | filled with holy spirit? | Rom 8:13 | Wlerin | 121259 | ||
I meant that my reply was petty, not yours... to clarify. And, the last big paragraph, starting with "Now. Someone..." - I meant to put something about "By two witnessess let every fact be confirmed". There are in fact, two witnesses (10:46 and 19:6), not even counting the 120. *eyes "prophesying again"* Ahem, actually, that only occurs with tongues in 19:6... I read that verse twice. |
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26 | filled with holy spirit? | Rom 8:13 | Wlerin | 121258 | ||
As petty a reply as this is, you have now posted this twice, and I must respond. On the day that the 120 were filled with the Spirit, they spoke in tongues. Whether the tongues were known languages (as even modern tongue-speaking has been verified to be on occasion) or not doth not matter. The same language is used in 2:4 as in 10:46 (with the omission of "other") and 19:6 (again with "other" omitted. Also, speaking in tongues and prophesying are combined in the last verse, and they are often paired...but that is neither here nor there. *pause* Oh, but then it is true that the 3,000 are not said to have spoken in tongues, which I think was your point. Also, ... the many daily added to their number is very nearly a part of the first conversion (look to verse 47, not 27). Nonetheless, do not try to maintain that the 120 did not speak with tongues in the same manner as the other two instances (and...ponder the significance of "tongues of fire" in verse 3...) However, I do agree with you that speaking in tongues is not THE preliminary sign of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Rather, (and here I no longer try to argue a point, but to bring forth a (budding) idea)a different sign, of which tongues is sometimes a part, seems to accompany the Holy Spirit's indwelling, and not only in those filled. - See, for example, Acts 2:11 we hear them in our tongues speaking of (proclaiming, declaring, confessing) the mighty deeds of God. 2:46-47 ...taking their meals together with gladness and simplicity of heart, praising God and having favour with all the people. 4:4 it does not occur, but another mention of filled with the Spirit comes in v8, in which the Spirit moves Peter to testify of Christ before the rulers and elders. 8:14-17 Here the focus is on Simon, and not on the giving of the Spirit, thus the omission of what had already been described is not at all surprising. 8:39 ...and the eunuch no longer saw him, for he was going on his way rejoicing 9:5-20 Saul is never specifically said to have received the Spirit, nor is any description (of which there have already been many), however, it is clear that he has received Him by verse 20, since there he begins to proclaim Jesus in the Synagogues (no man confesses the name of Christ except by the Spirit of Christ... paraphrase). 10:38 Jesus of Nazareth, how God anointed Him with the Holy Spirit and with power. - note that the prophets of the OT and Christ Himself did receive of the Holy Spirit, and He fell even upon Saul. 10:46 hearing them speaking with tongues and exalting God 16:14-15 No mention is made of the Holy Spirit in this passage (unless "baptized" stands for both water and spirit). 16:31-34 Again no Holy Spirit mentioned (with the same caveat) but: ... and rejoiced greatly with his whole household, having believed in God (having accepted the Word of God to be true). There is a conversion experience in 17:4, though few details are given. Again, a conversion in 7:12. (Did you search for "baptize" in Acts or something?) 19:5-7 The Holy Spirit came upon them through the laying on of hands, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied. Now. Someone elsewhere said that, since this is omitted in the other conversions, it should not be assumed that it was present there. Yes. And No. We agree that two Fillings brought the speaking with tongues. Many others brought prophesying (testifying of Christ... the Spirit of Christ is the Spirit of Prophecy, or some such thing). And, the first occurrence of tongue-speaking involved speaking of the mighty acts of God. ... I see a VERY close parallel between the two. Speaking in tongues and Prophesying are, not one and the same, but one and different... from the same Spirit, but not just that. Prophecy is to the believer (or the unbeliever... Paul says both in the same passage), or rather, what I meant, Prophecy is to the one who understands the basics of what you are saying (at the very least, the language you speak). Tongues are for those who have no common point of reference with you. Er, mostly just a thought, a very young thought. Now, consider, along with many other passages, v9:31, the comfort of the Holy Spirit. This is apparently the Greek paraklesis... which includes the meaning of consolation, exhortation, etc. These are the functions of all the gifts of the Spirit, even those of healing and helps. I need to stop now, even though only a quarter, if that, was written. |
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