Results 21 - 40 of 155
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Author: Curtnsally Ordered by Verse |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
21 | Thoughts on Romans 9 | Bible general Archive 1 | Curtnsally | 33602 | ||
I can answer your last question! Here is what the Catholic Encyclopedia says: John Calvin .... His mother, Jeanne Le Franc, born in the Diocese of Cambrai, is mentioned as "beautiful and devout"; she took her little son to various shrines and brought him up a good Catholic.... There you have it! The closest a Catholic can get to Calvin is to BE Calvin. Sleepy time now... Back to the fray tomorrow. Blessings Curt BTW our church is right next door to TSU on York Road (www.centralpc.org). We live in Lutherville (odd for a Calvinist, I suppose. Should live in Calvinville, or something. Shew, it is getting late. |
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22 | Thoughts on Romans 9 | Bible general Archive 1 | Curtnsally | 33604 | ||
Hopefully not when it was Towson Normal School... just Towson State College. Curt |
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23 | Thoughts on Romans 9 | Bible general Archive 1 | Curtnsally | 33632 | ||
In light of Romans 3:10-11, who is it that desires God, apart from God giving that desire? Romans 3 10 As it is written: "There is no one righteous, not even one; 11 there is no one who understands, no one who seeks God. Who gives us the ability to desire Him, according to His purposes? Romans 9 18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden. 19 One of you will say to me: "Then why does God still blame us? For who resists his will?" 20 But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? "Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, 'Why did you make me like this?'" 21 Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use? Is it God plus my actions, or is God's grace sufficient and complete? Ephesians 2 8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-- 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. I struggle with this as well, my friend. But this is Scripture, thus we must regard it carefully as we can. If I had to answer your question, I would likely say that Christ rejects no one who the Father has called. John 5:21 (Jesus speaking) "For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son also gives life to whom He wishes." John 6:37 (Jesus speaking) "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out." Blessings Curt |
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24 | Thoughts on Romans 9 | Bible general Archive 1 | Curtnsally | 33636 | ||
Who said anything about narrow? We have no evidence to show that God's mercy is narrow. Yes, everyone is doomed to Hell, except for the saving grace of God. The good news is this: There IS a saving grace of God! You speak in generalities, but you have yet to offer your views on these verses Romans 9. What do they mean? I struggle with this, as you do. The reason I opened this discussion was to think it through together... not to confirm what I want to believe, but to try to see what God is saying to us. These Scriptures are in the Bible and are worthy of our study. To respond to your closing opinion, perhaps God invites all? or at least most? do we know? Blessings, Curt |
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25 | Thoughts on Romans 9 | Bible general Archive 1 | Curtnsally | 33656 | ||
Hi Pastor Tim Tim I don't disagree with you on the one hand, but I lean toward saying that these Scriptures refer both to the position you have stated and to the issue of salvation. If we back up a bit in Romans 11, Paul talks about the covenant with Israel. Speaking to Gentiles, he explains the nature of God and His covenants: Romans 11 25 I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. (I take the first part to mean the same as Eph 2:9. In the second part he is saying that God hardened Israel's heart to open the way for the Gentiles... to serve His sovereign purpose) 26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: "The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob. (But God will remain true to His covenant, even though Israel's heart is hard, ie they have rejected the New Covenant in Jesus) 27 And this is my covenant with them when I take away their sins." 28 As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies on your account; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, (Again, Israel does not believe the gospel, BUT they are elect... chosen of God... and they will be saved... not because of what they do, but because of who they are... ie God's elect) 29 for God's gifts and his call are irrevocable. (God's promise is true... He will not go back on His word... the covenant applies in spite of their hardness) Clearly this is a discussion of Israel as a nation, and God's covenant with the Jews. Yet, it reveals the character of God in that: 1) He chooses whom He will, and 2) once chosen, He is faithful in salvation. Words like "I will take away their sins" and "all of Israel will be saved" leave no doubt in my mind that we are talking salvation, both as a people group and individually. I don't think you can separate the two, as what would that mean? Certainly, the people of Israel were "elect"... chosen of God in the covenant with Abraham. Why do we find it difficult to follow that God could choose others through the new covenant? Supporting this we have other verses such as: John 5:21 (Jesus speaking) "For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son also gives life to whom He wishes." The sovereignty of the Father extends to the Son, and He chooses... not our choice. John 6:37 (Jesus speaking) "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out." Not "all who choose Me" but "all who are given to Me". Is there anyone who seeks God on his own? Romans 3:11 there is no one who understands, no one who seeks God. Thus, even our ability to seek God must be a gift from God. Are we not, then, chosen? We often quote Eph 2:8-9 8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-- 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. which says that grace (God's means of salvation) is a gift, not dependent on our works. But read on to Eph 2:10 10 For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do. God is sovereign over kings and kingdoms to work His will. Is He not also sovereign over us as individuals to work His will? You closed by saying, "He is making the point that all who come in faith receive the promise." I would agree, but add that those who come only come because He draws them. It is always God first... a theme that I believe is consistent throughout Scripture, including the Old and New Covenants. Heb 7:19 (for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God. (The "better hope" is Christ) John 6:44 "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day." I'll stop there and let you noodle on this much. Blessings Curt |
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26 | Thoughts on Romans 9 | Bible general Archive 1 | Curtnsally | 33661 | ||
Another thought (I'm on a roll now!) Why did God choose Paul? Was He seeking God, or did God choose Paul to execute His sovereign will? To answer my own question, God clearly chose Paul to take the gospel message to the Gentiles. Paul (as Saul) was persecuting God as we learn in Scripture... clearly he was not seeking God. Yet God chose him for His purpose. This "election" was both national (for the Gentiles) and personal (for Paul's salvation). |
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27 | Thoughts on Romans 9 | Bible general Archive 1 | Curtnsally | 33685 | ||
So, if I understand you correctly, you would say that all are elect? | ||||||
28 | Thoughts on Romans 9 | Bible general Archive 1 | Curtnsally | 33687 | ||
I agree. I struggle with the free will vs election doctrines because I see them as a sovereignty issue. In my opinion, "free will" is very suitable to our culture (Americans want choice in everything), but I question myself in whether this is the nature of God or just my own preference... I wonder if it doesn't deny the sovereignty of God... ie that we can't even seek Him until He puts it on our heart to do so. Blessings Curt |
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29 | Thoughts on Romans 9 | Bible general Archive 1 | Curtnsally | 33689 | ||
Thanks for the encouragement! I count it a privilege in Christ to be in the PCUSA, as any missionary would see their mission. And its not so hard, particularly when we consider the missionaries we have in places like the Middle East! I count my blessings! Certainly we all cling to the verse "If God be for us, who could be against us". The gates of hell shall not prevail (even in the PCUSA)! Blessings Curt |
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30 | Thoughts on Romans 9 | Bible general Archive 1 | Curtnsally | 33695 | ||
Thanks Robert First, I agree, our minds are puny when we try to understand the largeness of God. Second, by no means do I want God to do what is "fair" for in this we are all condemned! My question is not so much " why this, or why that"... rather, it goes to "what is the nature of our relationship with God?" I ask this question because I believe that God is relational, and that He does want us to understand our relationship with Him (which goes something like this: God BIG, me little). I believe that the purpose of Scripture is exactly that, ie God communicating the nature of His relationship to us. Regarding the John 3 verses, I think it remains (in my mind) a question of this: can we believe unless God puts it on our heart to believe? Is it grace plus, or grace alone? Isn't our ability to believe an issue of faith, and isn't faith a gift from God? I think of Paul. He did not seek God, in fact God said to him "Why are you persecuting Me?". He was not being faithful. Yet God chose Paul and saved him from his sin. It was not God plus Paul, it was God in spite of Paul. By the way, this has been true in my life as well. Likewise, the fact that God chose Israel, by necessity, means He did not choose another people group. In this, I can only conclude that God is sovereign (I mean really really really sovereign) and can choose whom He pleases. To bring it down to a personal level, I'll ask you to consider a rhetorical question... In your own life, do you believe that your salvation was secured by God plus your desire for Him, or by God, in spite of you? In other words, if God hadn't reached out and grabbed you, would you have been saved? Did He put the desire in your heart, or was it inherently in you? Still pondering too Curt |
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31 | Thoughts on Romans 9 | Bible general Archive 1 | Curtnsally | 33698 | ||
Brother Tim This is a very enticing argument. One difficulty I have with it, though, is that the word elect implies a "choosing from". If there are chosen ones, are there not also "not chosen" ones, otherwise, what was the choice? If God has chosen all, then why did He say He was choosing? It is warm and fuzzy to say everyone is welcome, but I'm struggling with whether this isn't just my preference, not God's reality. Still thinking Curt |
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32 | Thoughts on Romans 9 | Bible general Archive 1 | Curtnsally | 33699 | ||
Thanks for the thoughts Hank. And good ones, at that. Curt |
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33 | Thoughts on Romans 9 | Bible general Archive 1 | Curtnsally | 33703 | ||
The problem with your view, in my humble opinion, is that it makes light of Scripture. I give you 2 Timothy 3:16 "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness" If we take Scripture in its entirety, there is considerable discussion of "the elect" and God's sovereign right to choose. In fact, the word "elect" appears 9 times in the NT and the word "chosen" appears 116 times in Scripture. However the words "free will" do not appear once. God didn't just give us Scripture to make us feel good. God gave us Scripture to teach us. Unfortunately, millions more people have been chained by their ignorance of Scripture than by their study of it. By the way, since you brought it up, the Bible belt is in the south. And apostacy emanates from all places, Yale Divinity included. As I recall, it was northerners who brought slaves from Africa... but that doesn't count I guess. The good news is that God is merciful. But we can only understand that mercy, and the value of faith, love, hope and grace if we understand our hopelessness without them. Thus, the whole message of the Bible is first the bad news (the ten commandments which we cannot keep), and then the good news (that Christ died to pay the price for our sin). My point is that we can't just ignore some verses because we don't like them. BTW, "hell" is used 13 times in the NT, so you're ok there. Blessings Curt |
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34 | Thoughts on Romans 9 | Bible general Archive 1 | Curtnsally | 33708 | ||
Hank Good for you! Sorry for the PCUSA. I'm an elder in a great little PCUSA church, and believe me, we have had the same struggles along the way, including the never-ending discussion as to whether we should keep our church in the denomination. I fully appreciate why you left, but am always sorry to see believers leave. As a missionary reporting from the PCUSA field, you'll be happy to know (if you dont already) the the current denominational vote on sexual purity is going very well for the evangelicals. With 1/3 of the presbyteries in, the vote is running about 3 to 1 in favor of sexual purity, and against the ordination of practicing homosexuals. While many outside the denomination would say "why is that even a question", we who feel called and planted here see God at work, just as any missionary would feel. Slowly, evangelicals are reclaiming the denomination with considerable help from our Lord. The "Confessing Church" movement is really taking hold and, while there are a regions which remain hotbeds of apostacy (Baltimore - my home - being one), the denomination as a whole seems to be moving back toward a personal relationship with God in Christ. For this we give praise and thanks to God! Blessings Curt |
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35 | Thoughts on Romans 9 | Bible general Archive 1 | Curtnsally | 33716 | ||
Bingo! I could not agree more. We follow the Great Commission because we are commanded to. God chooses whom He will... He knows which seed will be harvested and which will wither, we do not. Thus we carry the message to all, and let God do the rest. My salvation story is similar to your Dad's but much seedier. I KNOW that God chose me, not the other way around. He grabbed me by the collar, spun me around and pointed me in the right direction. He saved me from an abysmal self-destructive life. He is the sovereign merciful Lord to whom I owe all. I had nothing to do with my salvation, and freely admit it. One of the strongest supports, in my view, for the doctrine of election is the personal testimonies of people who are saved! By the way, to solve your "disappearing text" problem (my home computer does the same) do this: When you preview the text, use your mouse to highlight the text you wrote. With the text highlighted, press CTRL-C to copy it to memory. Then back up from your preview. Click your mouse pointer once on the text window. Then press CTRL-V to paste the text back into the window. This will get you back to where you were. Blessings Curt |
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36 | Thoughts on Romans 9 | Bible general Archive 1 | Curtnsally | 33725 | ||
Hank and Kalos This is exactly the concern I have, and the reason I initiated this discussion. I think we are very comfortable with the free will position, but that the doctrine of election makes folks nervous. For myself, I am trying to guard against comfort at the expense of sovereignty. Curt |
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37 | What is Free Will? | Bible general Archive 1 | Curtnsally | 33738 | ||
Hi Lionstrong Not trying to jump in for Zach, but thought I'd give a shot at your question. Free will is (very basicly) the principle that God calls us to Himself, and we have the "free will" or choice to respond to Him. This principle implies that our salvation depends on our choosing Him (after He draws us to Himself). The debate you are seeing on the forum is that of "free will" as counterposed to the concept of "predestination" (sometimes called the "doctrine of election"). Predestination (again very loosely) is the concept that God calls those whom He "chooses" unto Himself... that there is an "elect" who were "predestined" to salvation, similar to the way God "chose" Israel in the OT. This doctrine says that even our ability to choose God is a gift from God, so He is really choosing us, not the other way around. The basic difference boils down to the question of who chooses whom... and even this question could be debated. Does God choose us, do we choose God or both? ... and what is the relative importance of each of these in salvation? Both principles are found in Scripture, therefore both have validity, and much time has been spent through the past several centuries arguing one side or the other, or trying to fit them together. These doctrines are both developed from an assembling of various Scriptures, thus if you ask one person or another, the definitions may vary, depending on the relative weight you place on different Scriptures. I'm sure others will come behind me and prove this so! As with any good church organization, debating free will and predestination is somewhat an exercise in taking the simple and making it mind jarringly complicated. But it is Scripture and we do love it! Blessings Curt |
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38 | *Practical* not *ethereal* | Bible general Archive 1 | Curtnsally | 33742 | ||
Brother Charis I agree with what you are saying. I would ask... fundamentally, doesn't this get back to the "free will vs chosen" debate? If we are chosen, then can we fall away? Does God choose us... if so can we de-select ourselves by our actions, or is grace irresistable. In regard to your words of encouragement toward believers who waver, I am reminded of a number of supporting scriptures. The first and most obvious is the reaction of the father to the prodigal son, who received his wayard one back with great love after the son had made a total wreck of his life. If this isn't a picture of our Father in heaven, I don't know what is! Another is the admonition "Let us not give up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but let us encourage one another--and all the more as you see the Day approaching." in Hebrews 10:25. Of course, we are not to "Sin all the more that grace may abound"... but everyone knows this. We don't have to use Scripture like a bat. Jesus said, "If you love me, feed my sheep". We feed the flock with our words of encouragement. Excellent words! Blessings Curt |
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39 | Thoughts on Romans 9 | Bible general Archive 1 | Curtnsally | 33751 | ||
Thanks Brother Barry, Picking up your thought... In John 15:16, Jesus says, "You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you to go and bear fruit--fruit that will last. Then the Father will give you whatever you ask in my name." Jesus says specifically that we did not choose Him. If "the elect" is everyone, then what does the following verse mean? Matthew 24:31 "And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other." So is every human saved? I know you are not a universalist! When Jesus knocks, do we respond from our own heart? Romans 3:11 There is no one who understands, no one who seeks God. When Jesus knocks, we hear Him because He give us ears to hear... You are right, it is the Holy Spirit that tugs at our heart, and He gives us a heart for Him. We ouselves cannot desire Him on our own. In the final analysis, you are correct when you say, "it's not how a person gets to the point of Salvation but if indeed they are saved, if indeed one did accept Jesus into their heart." After being chosen, of course. (ok, a little dogmatic, lol) Blessings Curt |
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40 | Thoughts on Romans 9 | Bible general Archive 1 | Curtnsally | 33753 | ||
Really well said Joe. | ||||||
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