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Results from: Notes Author: userdoe220 Ordered by Date |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
21 | response | Rom 1:18 | userdoe220 | 20828 | ||
Not only have I spent a day with him, I have spent weeks with him. He is not only my Pastor, he is one of my best friends. Our families spend weekends together, go to the Dallas zoo, go on vacations together in colorodo, etc,. Our relationship is so close that I can make personal statments to him without him taking offense. Why? He knows my heart and I know his and he knows that I will do whatever it takes to not just mount a critique but help find and implement the solution. If the pastor's are performing "crisis evangelism" that would be "getting out into the world" in my book. If the pastor is doing "prison ministry" that would be "getting out into the world" in my book. Whenever a pastor interacts with people other than those from his church and takes that opportunity to open a door for future conversations about Christ--He is doing exactly what I am talking about. That would also include "body evangelism". The problem is so many pastors do none of the above and beat their sheep because they are not doing it! I don't know how many sermons I have heard on the great commission and the railing rebuke that follows because the church (their assembly)is not going out to the highways and by-ways compelling the masses to come in. My simple question is, "Why aren't you doing it, Pastor?" I don't think that is too much to ask for. I agree with you on the need for good christian scholarship and the probable cause of the lack of scholarship in the church. the church has plenty of good scholars but, most people choose not to read the great works that are out there and pastors--thanks to Willow Creek community church and other church growth seminars--are reluctant to preach deep theological messages. I have all the willow creek stuff and have been to the seminar. Just thought I would cut that response off before it is made. :-) Of course I can never respond to the "you just don't understand what was being said at the conference" response that is bound to come up. When pastors are strong-armed and their whole worth centers around how many people are sitting in the pew, the pressure forces them to shift into a "what works" mentality. I emphatize greatly with the stress that pastors face every day. Why? I was one. We def. need to pray for our pastors. They are under a huge amount of stress and pressure to increase their churches numerically in a society that seems to want nothing to do with the Christian message. I could go on and on about my expereinces in this area, but will choose not to bore those in the forum. I will close with this. I would never aske anyone in my congregation to go out and share their faith with others if I was not willing to and currently doing so myself. |
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22 | Reformed and Arminian Gospel Preaching | Rom 1:18 | userdoe220 | 20825 | ||
Armenian: God died for all people. Repent for the kingdom of God is at hand. God's wonderful plan--to be conformed into the image of Christ. Not too much of a difference. Reformed just replaces "all" with "some". |
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23 | Origin of Rapture of the Church doctrine | Matt 24:3 | userdoe220 | 20823 | ||
I think the concept of the rapture is taught...caught away in love...but I believe the event is synonomous with the 2nd coming of Christ. | ||||||
24 | response | Rom 1:18 | userdoe220 | 20732 | ||
Joe, I am swamped this week at work and will not be able to get around to answering your post. I plan on buying White's book this weekend and reading it. I am interested in seeing what he has to say. I think there is a number of things we can very much agree on when it comes to the nature and attributes of God. I just feel that God knows what we are going to choose based on His forknowledge (He knows our free choice in each matter) and not becuase he has scripted out all the events of history. I think there is a better way to understand the myriad of verses in the Bible where God gives His creation choices to make in life--the are truly free, not apparantly free, to make choice a or choice b. I have got to get back to work. I will try and summarize and wrap things up when I log back in. |
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25 | response | Rom 1:18 | userdoe220 | 20731 | ||
Ehpesians 5 does not releive the pastor of His responsibility to reach out to the lost. The apostles did not use Ephesians 5 as an excuse not to go out into the market place and share their faith with those that are lost and they are also included in the list in Ehpesians (read the Acts of the Apostles). I have been in education for 6 years now and realize the best way to teach people to act a certain way is to "act that certain way." I can't tell people to evangelize and bring the lost into the church when I don't want to place my faith on the line, risk embarassment and share the gospel with people other than the choir. I am not against scholarship; I am against Christianity becoming more of philosophy than a way of life. If you were to suscribe to CBD you would realize that the church does have enough scholars its just people are not reading or listening to them. |
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26 | response | Rom 1:18 | userdoe220 | 20661 | ||
George Barna took a survey and found out that today's pastors are Better educated than ever before yet the church is facing its largest decline. Are we getting are money's worth? In my opinion a number of churches are not. I might have been to general. There are well trained seminary pastors that are making a difference. MOst hide in the ivory towers of the church office and never interact with those who are going to a very real, literal Hell. Got to run. |
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27 | response | Rom 1:18 | userdoe220 | 20660 | ||
Rom 8: NO. God uses sinful acts for good but does not cause them. To derive that from the passage is completly going beyond what Paul was saying. You miss the whole point of Romans 8. The word predestination is not being used by Paul how you understand it. I could place predestination, in this verse, before foreknowledge and it would not effect my belief at all. All this verse is saying, is that God predestined us to be conformed to the image of Christ--Try a life of holiness to make things simpilar. Let me reword it for you so maybe you can get my point. "Those that God knew would accept Christ he has pre-determined would walk in the likeness of Christ." You, and other people I know, just jump on that word, Predestination, and run wild with it ignorign the broader context. All Paul is saying in this whole passage is that God will use the evil that man causes (Not God) to shape us into the image of his son. It does not refer to a cosmic script people are acting out. It does not refer to a list of who is saved and who is not. The word predestination is the path that each believer will take when they embrace Christ: A path to be confromed to be in His image. Mis-understanding of Calvanism results from the books and college classes I have sat under that were written or lectured to by Calvanist. So maybe your understanding of Calvanist differs from the Calvanist I have interacted with but don't tell me I have mis-understood calvanism. Let me illustrate with one doctrine: perseverance of the siants. If a person cannot walk away from his salvation is he/she really free? No. If God has determined who will be saved before eternity and who will not be saved are people really free to determine to accept Christ are not? No. That Goes for the saved and the un-saved. At best, man has apparant freedom not true freedom which is no freedom at all. You wrote: "I believe he moved on pharohs heart enough to fulfill his purposes and that is all." Two questions: 1. What is the Biblical basis for your belief here? 2. If he moves just enough to fulfill His purposes, what ISN'T part of His purposes? My question is likewise. What is the Biblical ref. you have to prove your view. You will find that you do not have one. You have none. Just the westminister confession--a creed created by man. Last but not least. The terrorist comment. I believe God will use the crash to fulfill his will, but that does not mean he orchestrated the crash. That crash was designed and carried out under the free will of man not God. God is sovereign Joe. If God is all powerful, can't he create a world in which his creation is really free to make choices? Yes. And he did. That world is the one in which we live in. The reaon I did not comment on Prv/eph is because I am limited by time. You jotted down a number of verses with a little one sentence summary. I took the time to thoroughly answer two of your passages and did not have enough time to respond to the other ones. Work calls...I must depart. |
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28 | response | Rom 1:18 | userdoe220 | 20655 | ||
It was a typo. The word I meant to type but fat-fingered was "Systematic Theology." |
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29 | Reformed and Arminian Gospel Preaching | Rom 1:18 | userdoe220 | 20654 | ||
I must be missing something from what I see as your original post. | ||||||
30 | Ninevah did. | Rom 1:18 | userdoe220 | 20575 | ||
: c) In God's soveriegn plan, he has made us truly free to make the choices we will to make. God already knows what choices we will make--because he is omnisceint--but that does not mean he has scripted the choices we will make. Therefore, practically, there will be a choice a) and b) and God leaves it up to us to fulfill that choice (Look at Dt 28-29. God does give them two broad choices:life and death). Within those two broad categories can be many ways in which we live those two choices in our life--a myriad of possible options for us to choose from. God just happens to know which choices we will make therefore, nothing will take Him by suprise. Still not completly satisfied with that defintion which I am paraphrasing form Geisler's book Chosen but Free. This all boils down to the typical armenianist calvanist debate--Does God know because he has pre-orchestrated everything or does he know based off of his omniscience. I have read many different books on this subject from a Calvanistic perspective--can't find a modern armenianist who has published a book on this. I don't know about you but Armenius' work and Calvins' work has put me to sleep :-) on many different occasions-- I admit there are passages that are difficult to work into my position, but at least I admit that! The only Calvanist I have ever read that admits what I admit is Geisler in his book Chosen but Free. He admits that "my passages" that I use to back up my opinion make it very difficult for his position as well! That is something I did not find in books published by Charles Ryrie, Wayne Gruden, Zane Hodges on this subject. By the way, Joe, do you know of a book published by a person from an Armenianist perspective that hasn't been dead for 300 plus years? I must admit that I don't own one book on this subject, or commentary on these passages, by an Aremenianist. :-) Funny , Huh! I enjoy the dialoge with you and lionstrong. I am reminded of the passage, "Iron sharpens Iron" and feel you have def., through many posts, given me something to think about. |
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31 | response | Rom 1:18 | userdoe220 | 20572 | ||
I love my pastor and since we are so close I can say things to him that I would never say to other people. In the broader context, we were talking about building a more effective church. I pointed out after the comment that he plays the key road to spear-head any action to lead the church from a "inside-only" to an "outward-thinking" church. You do have a point on him being paid therefore, he is looked at as being biased in his position. I am just frustrated everytime I drive by a packed Mormon church and ask the question, why? And when I meet their Bishop, Bruce, he is actively involved in soul-winning (I am not sure that would be a proper term.) and our pastors think they have done their job after they finish up the closing poem to their sermon. |
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32 | response | Rom 1:18 | userdoe220 | 20563 | ||
Thanks for your perspective on Geisler's book. I, too, felt that Geisler was trying to shape reforemed theology in the image of armenian. Why? I think we might disagree on this, I think Geisler (who is an intellectual) like myself (up for extreme debate on weather I am one) have seen the lack of evidence and the proof text offered by Calvanist to justify their belief in sovereignty and free will debate. I don't pretend to have all the answers on this subject in my back pocket, but was pleased to see Geisler was admitting that he too felt the same way! He pointed out and made an attempt to reconcile some major contradictions in reformed thought. (which I feel was heavily influenced by platonic philosophy not the scriptures.) I will def. check out the book you have recommended after I finally read a book published by an Armenianist author on this issue. I feel 5-0 is pretty lopsided affair and if I am not convinced yet I am not sure I will ever swing over to a reformed approach on this issue. Second comment about scholarship: When you have authors writing about the "lack of scholarship" in the Christian community I have to wonder what their motives are. Are they considering someone to not be a scholar because they don't agree with them on certain issues? Another words the , "If you were a real scholar, you would naturally come to the same conclusions I have concerning God" type books. If so they are just arrogant and not scholars. If not, I might be interested in looking at their books. I too see a lot of nonsense preached from the T.V and pulpits, but don't even attempt to lump them in as people who are even trying to be "scholars" of the Christian faith. In fact they would probably be the first to admit that they are not scholars. In some sense I think the church has too many "scholars" and not enough people actually "doing" the work of the ministry. It seems like all people want to do is debate about what Christianiy is and never practice it ( I don't mind the debate part as long as the other half is equally in place). I asked my pastor recently why he spent 8 years in college to study the scriptures and how to effectively do ministry and he hides in the church 7 days a week and never does what Paul and the other apostles did--witness in the public arenas...interact and challenge the presuppositions of the world today? What are they teaching in those seminaries about ministry? I just don't see the bang for the buck from people I know who have attended. Enough ranting. If you have been to seminary, I would love to know why people that leave are so ineffective in ministry (That might be too general of a statment). They wax eloqount in philosophy and Theology but never seem to get out in the public arena and challenge others. Most of them hide in the churches and preach where it is safe--another words they "Preach to the choir". Why are our best trained servants in the church never put into action? Why do I, someone who has no seminary training, placed on the front lines of evangelism when there is someone in the church that is much better able to answer the criticism that people have to Christianity--the seminary trained pastor? |
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33 | response | Rom 1:18 | userdoe220 | 20552 | ||
c) In God's soveriegn plan, he has made us truly free to make the choices we will to make. God already knows what choices we will make--because he is omnisceint--but that does not mean he has scripted the choices we will make. Therefore, practically, there will be a choice a) and b) and God leaves it up to us to fulfill that choice (Look at Dt 28-29. God does give them two broad choices:life and death). Within those two broad categories can be many ways in which we live those two choices in our life--a myriad of possible options for us to choose from. God just happens to know which choices we will make therefore, nothing will take Him by suprise. Still not completly satisfied with that defintion which I am paraphrasing form Geisler's book Chosen but Free. This all boils down to the typical armenianist calvanist debate--Does God know because he has pre-orchestrated everything or does he know based off of his omniscience. I have read many different books on this subject from a Calvanistic perspective--can't find a modern armenianist who has published a book on this. I don't know about you but Armenius' work and Calvins' work has put me to sleep :-) on many different occasions-- I admit there are passages that are difficult to work into my position, but at least I admit that! The only Calvanist I have ever read that admits what I admit is Geisler in his book Chosen but Free. He admits that "my passages" that I use to back up my opinion make it very difficult for his position as well! That is something I did not find in books published by Charles Ryrie, Wayne Gruden, Zane Hodges on this subject. By the way, Joe, do you know of a book published by a person from an Armenianist perspective that hasn't been dead for 300 plus years? I must admit that I don't own one book on this subject, or commentary on these passages, by an Aremenianist. :-) Funny , Huh! I enjoy the dialoge with you and lionstrong. I am reminded of the passage, "Iron sharpens Iron" and feel you have def., through many posts, given me something to think about. |
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34 | Ninevah did. | Rom 1:18 | userdoe220 | 20551 | ||
On a more personal note, EDS has announced to our group that they will be laying off a number of people the 15th of November. I have been layed off two times in the last 2 years and really don't want to repeat the expereince. I would def. appreciate your (as well as: Tim Morant, Lionstrong, Kalos, Casiv and the rest who post often on this forum) prayers in regard to this situation. Looking at the economy and being layed off in the fourth qaurter is unsettling to say the least. | ||||||
35 | response | Rom 1:18 | userdoe220 | 20550 | ||
You throw out passages many of which are taken out of context which means they are a proof text for you belief. This is the problem I have with Systamtic Theology: It usually starts off with an idea, pulls out the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance, completly ignores the passage context and moves on to the next point he/she is trying to make. Is 46 will be answered in another post...In context. Rom 8:28. What is God's purpose in context? To be shaped and fashioned into the image of God. Not to fulfill some eternal decree where we act out some cosmic script in the sky. Please read teh remaining verses: verse 29. Whom he FOREKNEW (notice this comes first in Paul's mind), He also predestined (pre-determined something. What could that be?) to BE CONFORMED TO THE IMAGE OF HIS SON (emphasis is obviously mine :-) It wasn't some cosmic script that he created before time to determine who would be saved and who wouldn't. He has pre-determined that each believer that he forknew would accept his plan would also be Christ-like! "So will My word be which goes forth from My mouth; It will not return to Me empty, Without accomplishing WHAT I DESIRE, And without SUCEEDING IN THE MATTER FOR WHICH I SENT IT." --Isaiah 55:11 Of course when God declare that Israel will be judged for forsaken the covenant It will come to pass. I have no problem with that at all. The problem I have is that Israel's rebellion wasn't written down in a cosmic play for them to act out before time began. The plan laid forth in the law was simple: You obey me and I will bless you...YOu disobey and I will judge you. That is far fetched from saying that God has micro-organzied every detail of our lives. Exodus events. Does not prove that God dictated every event of PHaroh's life just the event that he determined would happen--the Exodus! God prophesied to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob that he would give them the promised land. In order for God to fulfill His purpose he would have to act in the affairs of man; However, it is a far stretch to say off of those passages that God orchestrates every minute detail of every persons life--even pharoh! I believe he moved on pharohs heart enough to fulfill his purposes and that is all. How can I word this? God has determined certain things to happen--Look at Bible Prophesy the Birth of Christ etc., in those circumstances, God will move in the affairs of men to ensure that his word will "Not return to me void (Is 55:11)." That does not mean he has scripted all of creation! To try to suggest such by using any of the above verses would do damage to the context of scripture. |
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36 | Ninevah did. | Rom 1:18 | userdoe220 | 20548 | ||
Just baiting the forum. Trying to get some activity :-) | ||||||
37 | Reformed and Arminian Gospel Preaching | Rom 1:18 | userdoe220 | 20546 | ||
Which one is reformed and which one is armenian? | ||||||
38 | Ninevah did. | Rom 1:18 | userdoe220 | 20506 | ||
I must have selected the wrong option button. I meant to hit note. Well, since my intent was not that obvious I will state it a little clearer. My intent is to stir up the forum a bit :-) on the question of Ninevah's repentance found in the book of Jonah. Did Ninevah change God's mind through their act of repentance or did God determine all along that Ninevah was going to repent and decided to dupe Jonah into thinking that His judgement was coming immediatley? Tough question that has come up in many of Sunday School classes. |
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39 | When did the day of worship change? | Acts | userdoe220 | 18916 | ||
I know writing is an artfrom that I do not fully possess. I know that comments, although not intended to be rude, can be interpreted as such when read even thought that was not the authors intent. I have been accused of being "short" with people when I respond, because sometimes I do so hastily--I work 50 plus hours a week at EDS and sometimes I will fire off a note without doing a whole lot of proof reading. There is no rush on the response. The weekend is coming up and I have a number of things I have to get done so, I will unlikely have an opportunity before Monday to come back to the discussion. Got to run schwartzkm |
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40 | When did the day of worship change? | Acts | userdoe220 | 18905 | ||
I will check out the website. Sounds interesting. I will have to get back to you later on the rest. |
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