Results 21 - 37 of 37
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Results from: Notes Author: jelkins Ordered by Date |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
21 | does one need to be baptised to be saved | John 3:5 | jelkins | 132070 | ||
To answer your question “how did [I] receive the Spirit, by Water Baptism or the Hearing of Faith?”, I say both, my friend. I noticed you revised Paul’s question a little bit. His question was “by the works of the law [of Moses] or the hearing of faith?” Romans 10:17 says “faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God.” So, I heard from the Word that baptism (obedience) saves me, and the Holy Spirit is given to me after baptism. Acts 2:38, 5:32. To me, Romans 6, first few verses, clearly describes baptism as the new birth. |
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22 | Created "in " Christ Jesus | Eph 2:10 | jelkins | 130975 | ||
Mark, answering your last question: If water baptism is necessary for salvation, does this mean that death-bed conversions are impossible? I have to say I don’t know. Since God has commanded water baptism for remission of sins, I have no right or authority to say anyone can be saved without baptism. Nor has anyone else that authority. In my mind, to teach such may be to “tempt God.” I know God requires repentance and obedience, and that He did not lie when He said “He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved,” but I also know the scriptures teach that nothing is impossible with God, that He is not willing that any should perish, that He is merciful, and He knows men’s hearts. I don’t play the “what if” game; like, what about the man on his deathbed, or what about the man in the fox-hole, or what if there is not enough water -- what about those who want to be saved but can’t be baptized? I have to leave them to God and beg Him to be merciful. Fair or unfair? His ways are not like mine, his thoughts are not like mine; There is a way that seems right to man but the end of it is death; We are all judged by the written word (all scriptural teachings). To speculate what God would do in any circumstance that is not clearly taught by the Word, to me would fall under “foolish questions,” or going beyond the Word. My job is to believe and obey, grow in the grace and knowledge of Christ, live righteously, and to teach others to do the same, before they get to the deathbed. This Old Testament story has always seemed a little unfair to me, even though I know God had commanded that no one should touch the ark. II Sam 6:6-8 “When they came to the threshing floor of Nacon, Uzzah reached out and took hold of the ark of God, because the oxen stumbled. The LORD's anger burned against Uzzah because of his irreverent act; therefore God struck him down and he died there beside the ark of God. Then David was angry because the LORD's wrath had broken out against Uzzah, and to this day that place is called Perez Uzzah.” “Consider the goodness and severity [extreme strictness] of God.” (Romans 11:22) J. Elkins |
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23 | Created "in " Christ Jesus | Eph 2:10 | jelkins | 130974 | ||
Tim, you say "Yet, the example of Cornelius doesn't occur in the order you profess. They were saved first, then baptized as a result of their salvation - not as a condition of their salvation." Please justify your statement with scripture. Those in Cornelius' household were saved by the words Peter spoke, which included the command to be baptized in water, which to be consistent with other plain scriptures is the point at which they were saved. Based on our discussions, you must feel that you have been baptized by the Holy Spirit. Were the manifestations of your baptism the same as those recorded in Acts 2 and Acts 10/11? Contending for the Faith. J Elkins |
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24 | does one need to be baptised to be saved | John 3:5 | jelkins | 130971 | ||
Yes. Justification for my answer has been given in my other recent posts. | ||||||
25 | Created "in " Christ Jesus | Eph 2:10 | jelkins | 130923 | ||
Mark, I opened a new topic to answer your question about the salvation of the thief on the cross. This is answering your question asking how I regard the salvation of gentiles in Acts 10:44, who received the baptism of the Holy Spirit (HS) prior to water baptism. Please read Acts 2, 10, and 11. I have to determine if Paul’s words in Eph 4:5, about the “one baptism” is talking about the Holy Spirit baptism or water baptism. Can’t be both. The HS baptism was fulfillment of a promise to the Apostles (Acts 1:4-5). Scripture tells of two occurrences of it, Acts 2 and Acts 10. Water baptism is in obedience to a command. Salvation came to the Jews first, then to the Gentiles; in each case, evidence of this salvation was manifested by the power of the HS baptism. Acts 2 and Acts 10. Before Jesus ascended, he told the 11 Apostles to wait in Jerusalem for the power. Earlier he had said he would send the Comforter to bring to their minds everything he had told them and guide them into all truth. Key: This promise is to no one but the Apostles. Peter was preaching to Cornelius’ household “words by which they would be saved.” Acts 11:14. The HS came upon the Gentiles while Peter was speaking, and because it astonished Peter and the other Jews, my conclusion is that Peter’s words which were to save did not include mention of HS baptism. As stated many times in scripture, the reason for God’s signs and wonders was to confirm his word. Now that we have perfect knowledge and prophecy in the written word of God, which was confirmed and witnessed, the need for miracles is past. (First Cor 13 says the miracles will go away when the perfect comes.) The word of His creation was confirmed by miracles; the establishment of the Law of Moses was confirmed by miracles; and the establishment His church, the kingdom, was confirmed by miracles, one of which was the HS descending on the gentiles. The reason for the HS baptism of the gentiles was to show the Jews that God’s salvation is for the gentiles also, as evidenced by this verse: “When they [the Jews] heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, "Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance to life." Acts 11:18 Then Peter continued preaching the word, "Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?" 48And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.” (Acts 10:47,48) The example of the conversion of Cornelius’ household is consistent with all other examples of conversions in Acts. Water baptism was commanded by Jesus and obedience to the command is necessary for salvation. (At risk of sounding like a broken record, I’ll quote Heb 5:9 again, “And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him…” and I’ll call to attention II John 9.) Acts 2:38, the gift of the HS comes to us after baptism in water. See also Acts 19:1-5. My conclusion is that the one baptism of Eph 4:5 is water baptism. Anyone claiming Holy Spirit baptism today will have to make their own justifications for that, including why the astonishing manifestations, as given in scripture, are not present. |
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26 | why was the thief saved without baptism? | Luke 23:43 | jelkins | 130889 | ||
Tim, I also appreciate your sincerity, and your apparent love of the Lord and his Word. I believe, whole-heartedly, in the grace of God, which is that he gave his Son to die for us while we were yet sinners. Grace has been called "unmerited favor." I believe that faith is absolutely necessary for salvation, as in: "without faith it is impossible to please him." I expect our differences go back to the issue of whether or not mankind is born totally depraved. Maybe you believe man sins because he is born a sinner, and I believe man is a sinner because he sins (looking at Ezekiel 18). I deny that what I have posted should be called "this 'other gospel'" It is curious, but I, too, hope that some will see the truth in the scriptures I have used and come to the same conclusions I present. Assuming you believe Paul's words to Timothy, "all scripture is given by inspiration," why is it that your position appears to deny the truth of the following three paragraphs, which I copied from one of my earlier posts. All spiritual blessings are “in Christ” (Eph 1:3). Salvation is a spiritual blessing. Salvation is “in Christ” (II Timothy 2:10). This is supported by Ephesians 1:7, Colossians 1:14, and II Timothy 3:15 (“In Him” we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins). So, “how do we get into Christ?” The question is answered by scripture in at least two places – Romans 6:3 and Galatians 3:27: We are baptized into Christ. Paul said to the Ephesians, “there is one baptism.” I ask you, is it the baptism you believe is done after one is saved, or the baptism I believe saves by putting one into Christ – where salvation is? You say "Scripture clearly teaches that salvation is by grace alone, not works." And, I call attention to Eph 2:8-10, with emphasis on verse 10, and James chapter 2. Since I like to give scripture to support my answers, I can't address your several questions off the top of my head, Tim. I will say that my next post will be about the Spirit-baptism of Cornelius from Acts 10. May God bless our studies together. J. Elkins |
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27 | why was the thief saved without baptism? | Luke 23:43 | jelkins | 130875 | ||
I’m slow in saying thanks for all the input to my note about the salvation of the thief on the cross. I’ve read and pondered your comments and the scriptures you referenced. Acknowledging that the basic topic here is whether or not baptism has been necessary for salvation since the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ, I speak in humility and love (Eph 4:15, reference Jude 3, I Pet 4:11) All preconceptions, prejudices, guesswork, and speculation aside, my Bible still says salvation is in Christ, and that we are baptized into Christ, and that baptism saves us, and that baptism washes away sins, and that he who believes and is baptized will be saved, that obedience is key, that the devils also believe and tremble, and so forth. (II Tim 2:10, Rom 6:3 and Gal 3:27, I Pet 3:21, Acts 22:6, Mark 16:16, I Pet 1:22, Jas 2.). Maybe you can see why I feel the teaching that we are saved by faith alone without baptism, and thus outside of Christ, has a bit of a disconnect. God has always required obedience, both in the old and new testaments. Quoting from Heb 5:9 “…He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him…” There is nothing in the waters of baptism that saves except an obedient sinner. The requirement of baptism for remission of sins hardly makes the new Law of Liberty more stringent and difficult than the old law of Moses. And, while we’re talking difficult, I remember that Jesus said “narrow is the gate and difficult is the way…” so, shouldn’t we expect some amount of difficulty? I read recently on the Forum a reference to the story of Nahum. His leprosy wasn’t cured until he had done what God told him to do, dip 7 times in the Jordan River. Maybe not logical and reasonable according to man’s (Nahum’s) thinking, but certainly not more difficult than he was able to do You are defending your position (and I have no quarrel with the thief being saved through faith and confession while Jesus was alive), but you aren’t telling me specifically what part of my reasoning is false. Which of the scriptures I have referenced are not true? What part of my note is not based solely on scripture? J. Elkins |
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28 | Do we receive *holy *spirit as a gift? | Luke 11:13 | jelkins | 130159 | ||
HiRay, to clarify, are you talking about the spirit of man (lower case "s") and the Holy Spirit (of God; upper case "S")? For information, about receiving Jesus: John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Colossians 2:6 As you therefore have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him, Refer Acts 2:38 and 5:32. 2:38 can be read either as meaning the HS himself, or a gift that he gives, but 5:32 seems to mean the Spirit himself. Knowing in what measure we receive the Spirit takes a lot of study. The text says it comes at the point of obeying the command to be baptized. The two occurrences of baptism of the HS were a result of promise, not in obedience to command. |
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29 | Discovering the will of God | Eph 2:10 | jelkins | 130157 | ||
Hi JKW. Answering the questions you put to me directly. The context of Heb 7 requires me to interpret verse 15 as meaning Jesus. Luke 11:52 is figurative language. In my opinion (IMO), the lawyers (experts in the law) had the resources and education to get the knowledge of the deep spiritual meanings of the Law of Moses, but they didn’t search for it, nor did they encourage or assist those who looked to them for guidance to find the truth. Luke 12:51. Some will accept the teachings of Jesus, some will not. Explained in verses 52 and 53. Same thing in Matthew Chapter 10. Luke 14-16. Exaggeration for effect. To me it means don’t let anything get in the way of your loving/serving the Lord. I John 2:15-17 says it another way. The verse about hating mothers, etc., must be reconciled with I John 2:11; 3:15, Matt 5:43-44, and all the other places where we are told to love everyone. Mark 10:17. The Bible doesn’t say for sure that he was lost, but there is a strong indication that the rich ruler chose love of his riches over the kingdom of God. We are not told if he later repented of that. You say you have seen the darkness covering you and know why the moon turns to blood, and you understand why he calls it the great and dreadful day of the Lord. It seems you have taken some of Joel’s descriptions and applied them to things that happened in your personal life. Of course, you are free to do that, but I question whether God meant the prophecy to be applied to you personally, especially since Peter on the day of Pentecost said “this is” the fulfillment of it. Having read many of the questions and answers on the Forum during Aug 04, I feel comfortable in saying that whatever view you take, it will be different from someone else’s. Be like the people of Berea in Acts 17, who “received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so. ” |
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30 | why was the thief saved without baptism? | Luke 23:43 | jelkins | 129797 | ||
How do you regard the salvation of the thief on the cross, who was not baptized? The thief on the cross lived under the Law of Moses, as did Jesus. At the time of the crucifixion, the kingdom had not come, the church had not been established, the New Covenant wasn’t effective. At that time Jesus had not given the command to be baptized. As evidenced in Matt 9, Jesus had the power while he was alive to forgive sins and, by inference, to give entrance to Paradise to the thief – through his word alone. After his death and resurrection, he still has the power, again through his word, but bound by the pattern/form/requirements of His last will and testament, the New Covenant. (Following text copied from BibleGateway.com, NKJ V.) Topic of discussion as found in Luke. Luke 23:39Then one of the criminals who were hanged blasphemed Him, saying, "If You are the Christ, save Yourself and us." 40But the other, answering, rebuked him, saying, "Do you not even fear God, seeing you are under the same condemnation? 41And we indeed justly, for we receive the due reward of our deeds; but this Man has done nothing wrong." 42Then he said to Jesus, "Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom." 43And Jesus said to him, "Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise." Command to be baptized into Christ’s death for remission of sins came later, after Jesus’ death, before his ascension.. (See Mark 16, also) Mat 28 18And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19Go therefore[3] and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Amen. Only after Christ’s death was the new law binding. Heb 9 16 For where there is a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. 17For a testament is in force after men are dead, since it has no power at all while the testator lives. Jesus’ mode of operation while he was alive. Matt 9 5For which is easier, to say, "Your sins are forgiven you,' or to say, "Arise and walk'? 6But that you may know that the Son of Man has power on earth to forgive sins"--then He said to the paralytic, "Arise, take up your bed, and go to your house." I was well into adulthood when someone pointed these things out to me with loving persistence, even though I was a reluctant listener. I’m grateful they cared enough. To know when the church was established (Acts 2) has made all the difference in the world in understanding scripture. May God bless the reading of His Word. J. Elkins |
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31 | How do you know the Bible is the word of | NT general Archive 1 | jelkins | 129787 | ||
Perhaps His Word, His Spirit, and His presence are one and the same; as in, "let the word of Christ dwell in you richly" (Col 1:18). I read that God reveals himself through the Word; and the church is responsible for preaching the Word. | ||||||
32 | Created "in " Christ Jesus | Eph 2:10 | jelkins | 129785 | ||
Haven’t had a reply about Steve’s being on staff, so guess I’ll talk awhile more. I say “yes” to the 1st of your questions: “Do we maintain our salvation by our righteous living (by which we could boast)?”; qualifying the boasting part, below. I agree that some verses can be interpreted more than one way, and weighing them with all other texts on the same topic is the best way to come to a conclusion. I know that no amount of good works one might do will earn salvation; conversely, I know that salvation by grace cannot be attained without righteous works produced by faith. In both OT and NT God has demanded obedience from his people. I know of no place where this is more plainly taught than in Ezekiel 18. Since you posted your note, I’ve studied John 10, and Rom 3, 4, 8, 9, and 10. Much there applies to the topic of grace vs works. But, I’ll start with the scripture you alluded to – Eph 2:8,9, “For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God not of works, lest anyone should boast.” I have to reconcile that with James 2, emphases on verses 14, 19, and 26, “Faith without works is dead,” and verse 24, “...a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.” Paul goes on to say in Eph 2:10: “For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.” These are the works I must do to keep my salvation. As touching on boasting, the works in verse 9 are apparently different from those in verse 10. Consideration of Romans 3, emphases on verses 20, 27, and 28 helps to clarify. ‘…therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight…” “27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith. 28Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.” Another key scripture is Romans 9:32; the Jews sought righteousness by the works of the [old] law, but not by faith. There are many exhortations to live righteously and many warnings about not doing so. Here are reminders of a few. (I think it is important to remember that all the epistles are addressed to people in the church; those who were already saved.) · If you do these things, you will never fall. II Pet 1:5-10 · Raised to walk in newness of life. Rom 6 (This sure seems to me to be a description of the new birth) · Be not conformed to the world but be ye transformed… Romans 12 · Walk in the light. I John · Love not the world I John · Abide in the doctrine of Christ II John 9 · God will make a way of escape from temptation (it’s our responsibility to find and use the escape hatch) I Cor 10:13 · be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, II Peter 1:5-10 · “….work out your own salvation with fear and trembling…” Phil 2:12 · “…He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him…” Heb 5:9 · Heb 11 is a powerful list of examples of faith combined with works. · let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works, Heb 10-24 · For you have need of endurance, so that after you have done the will of God, you may receive the promise Heb 10-36 · “…you have purified your souls in obeying the truth…” I Peter 1:22 · “…taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ…” II Thes 1:8 · But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. James 1:21-25 · We are judged not only by our works but our words: “For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned." Matt 12:37 · So likewise you, when you have done all those things which you are commanded, say, "We are unprofitable servants. We have done what was our duty to do.” Luke 17:10 · Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God and keep His commandments, For this is man's all. For God will bring every work into judgment, Including every secret thing, Whether good or evil. Ecc 12:13-14 Regarding John 10:27-29 and Romans 8:38-39. In light of other scriptures, I have to interpret these texts to mean that while nothing and no one can separate me from God, I myself can make the choice to turn away from Him and be lost. (e.g., the Prodigal Son.) Added note. If I believed all men were born totally depraved, I’d need to believe God would have to “make me” respond to Him, and if I believed he “made me do it,” I would have to believe there is nothing I could do to undo it. But, I believe God gives us the responsibility for making the choices, and that scripture tells us we have the ability to make righteous choices, and that we are accountable for how we choose, until death. Later posts on the thief on the cross, Cornelius’ household, deathbed conversions. Striving for the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. I love you back. J. Elkins |
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33 | Created "in " Christ Jesus | Eph 2:10 | jelkins | 129383 | ||
Mark, thanks for your note. Assuming Steve has some authority as a site manager to suggest I don't discuss the topic of baptismal regeneration, I cannot reply to you on this forum. I do have scriptural answers for your questions, and would be happy to share. I'll ask the site management to give you my email address. | ||||||
34 | Created "in " Christ Jesus | Eph 2:10 | jelkins | 129353 | ||
Hello Steve. Have you not just "debunked" the scriptures I referred to? What scripture do you use to tell how to get into Christ? If discussion on this is not allowed, I withdraw from the forum. So sorry. JElkins | ||||||
35 | Discovering the will of God | Eph 2:10 | jelkins | 129340 | ||
To JKW. Maybe you could rethink your position evidenced by your statement that the Bible is intended to pertain to our lives today AS MUCH as it was the day it was written. Look again, carefully, at Heb 1:1,2. It tells us God speaks to us by his Son, not the O.T. prophets. In which case, the prophecy in Joel wouldn't pertain to you today. It's a good idea, whenever possible, to let the scriptures interpret themselves, and when Peter said "this is that" it pretty well closes the prophecy for me. I don't speculate that it means something further. The Old Testament has great value in helping us understand the New. In fact, Jesus said in John 5:47 "If you don't believe [Moses] writings, how will you believe my words?" There is a N.T. verse that says the Old is "written for our learning" (I can't find it). Heb 8:13 says the old law is obsolete. Gal 5:4 says we can't go back and be justified by the old law, else we're fallen from grace. Gal 3:23-27 speaks of it as being a schoolmaster/tutor to bring us (Jews?) to Christ. Our hope lies in the New Testament, where you find the doctrine of Christ. Tune in to the clear teachings, like the characteristics of the church and how to become a Christian (Acts), and how Christians are supposed to think and behave. (The epistles were written to folks in the church.) Keep watching out for the false teachers. I call to your mind Acts 19:11 where the Bereans "searched the scriptures daily to see if these things were so." And look at II Pet 3:16, where it suggests we can wrest (pervert) the scriptures to our own destruction. May God bless your search for the truth. As you "grow in grace and knowledge" the things hard to understand will become more clear. | ||||||
36 | Discovering the will of God | Eph 2:10 | jelkins | 129180 | ||
Consider the two verses, below. If the whole duty of man is to fear God and keep his commandments, and if we must "continue in the teaching of Christ" ("abide in the doctrice of Christ" KJV) to have God, maybe you are just waiting to learn what the commandments/teachings are. The Holy Spirit guides you through the Word, but it is your responsibility to learn the Word -- the "milk" and then the "meat" (Heb 5:12,13; I Pet 2:2) The more you learn, the more the HS can speak to you through the Word. No easy way - just diligent/regular study. Eccliastes 12:13 "Now all has been heard; here is the conclusion of the matter: Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the whole duty of man." and 2 John 1:9 "Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. " J. ELkins |
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37 | Discovering the will of God | Eph 2:10 | jelkins | 129172 | ||
For JKW:About prophets today. It's true God is unchanging, but doesn't Heb 1:1,2 say his "ways" are different? Compare also Old Covenant and New Covenant. See also 1 Cor 13:8-10. Prophecies, knowledge, tongues, which will cease, are among the miraculous gifts given by the Holy Spirit (listed in 1 Cor 12.) Visualize "that which is perfect" as being God's written word as contained in scriptures. Concerning your quote of Joel: "in the last days...old men will dream dreams and see visions and your son's and daughters will give prophesy...," Peter said in Acts 2:16, "But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel." In other words, Joel's prophecy was being fulfilled as Peter spoke. So, the "last times" started about that time. More: Because of the words in Jude 3, "contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to the saints," I get the idea there will be no new revelation or prophecy. Keep on reading; keep on studying; keep "the faith." J.Elkins |
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