Results 21 - 40 of 57
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Results from: Notes Author: jamison Ordered by Date |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
21 | An interesting discussion/question | Romans | jamison | 205092 | ||
Hello Brad, I never said they believed the exact same thing about Jesus. Reread my post if you like, but I merely mentioned one thing they do believe and how it corresponds to what we believe. And the point of that statement has been illustrated in my response to Val, so I will not go into it again. I am not hiding anything about what church I am affiliated. If you have read my latest posts (after you wrote this of course) I go into this in further detail. I just don't affiliate with any particular denomination. Lastly, I never said that I was free from bias. In fact, I even said that I did the exact same thing. Reread my posts and you will see that I admit to doing the same thing. I just acknowledge I do it and try not to. But I still do. jamison |
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22 | An interesting discussion/question | Romans | jamison | 205066 | ||
Hello Doc, If you meant no ad hominem, then I take you at your word. It did seem that way to me, but I have been wrong plenty of times before. I have never asserted my own freedom from reading the Scripture in light of my theology. I merely stated that I recognize that I do. Something many do not admit. Yes, my friend. My non-denominational church believes in no other inspired Word of God than the Scripture. As you and Hank have requested, I will get something in my profile. jamison |
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23 | An interesting discussion/question | Romans | jamison | 205065 | ||
Hello Hank, As far as church affiliation, I don't affiliate with any church denomination. I attend (and am very active) in a non-denominational church. However, I do not believe all that the members or paster believe. I am not a Mormon. For the record, I have read the Book of Mormon and think it is a hoax. I believe in actual death, which you refer to as soul sleep. Though I am not for certain that what you think soul sleep is, is what I adhere to, I am sure it is close enough. As for Doc. I am aware that he is a long time and well respected member. Your defense of him is very honorable. However, he did use bad logic in an attempt to discredit me (whether intentional or unintentional). This point was proven when I did the same thing and Val responded. Secondly, he did not juxtapose my opinion with Scripture, he merely pointed to how it corresponded with other cults. I will refresh myself with the rules of the Forum. And finally, I do not think little of what others have been taught by the Spirit. It is usually the other way around. jamison |
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24 | An interesting discussion/question | Romans | jamison | 205055 | ||
Hello CDBJ, Yes. I believe the entirety of Scripture. Our interpretations may differ, but I assure you that I believe it to be God's Word. "No man cometh unto the Father, but by me" jamison |
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25 | An interesting discussion/question | Romans | jamison | 205054 | ||
Hello CDBJ, Yes. I believe the entirety of Scripture. Our interpretations may differ, but I assure you that I believe it to be God's Word. "No man cometh unto the Father, but by me" jamison |
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26 | An interesting discussion/question | Romans | jamison | 205053 | ||
Hello John, You have pointed to the one verse that is a puzzler to me. I have read how other people who believe in actual death interpret this and some seem feasible while others seem far fetched. I could share some of the ideas, but it really wouldn't matter. Suffice it to say that in light of the other verses I have presented before and the fact that the Jews had pretty much no concept of life continuing after death, that I do not believe this is saying otherwise. Well done though. The other verses are pretty easy to show aren't talking about continued life after death. This one presents (for me at least) the only one that would point in the other direction. jamison |
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27 | An interesting discussion/question | Romans | jamison | 205049 | ||
Hello Val, No, I am not a JW. For the record, not a SDA, Mormon, Christian Scientist, Muslim, Hindu, or Buddhist either. I am also not Baptist, Lutheran, Catholic, Pentacostal, etc, etc, etc. I do not hold to any particular tradition that I am aware of. If so, it is coincidental. I believe Jesus Christ to be the Son of God who died for our sins to make us righteous before the Father. I believe the Scriptures are God's Word. jamison |
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28 | An interesting discussion/question | Romans | jamison | 205047 | ||
Hello Val, I was not saying that anywhere. I was merely talking of actual death until the resurrection. However, that does mean that I do not think anyone is in hell right now. jamison |
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29 | An interesting discussion/question | Romans | jamison | 205046 | ||
Hello Val, You seem to have proven my point for me. Just because you happen to have a belief in common with another group (Jesus is Son of God, died for our sins and is the only way to heaven) does not mean you are similar to them. That was my point. The response had the effect of grouping me in with SDA and JW just because ONE of our beliefs were similar. I never said the Mormons were exactly like you, but by pointing out one similarity it must have implied as much. That was my point exactly. I am fully aware that none of the regulars here are Mormons or believe the majority of what they believe. jamison |
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30 | An interesting discussion/question | Romans | jamison | 204988 | ||
Hello budderfligh, To be honest, I am not sure where you are going with the "whosoever" part. Since you feel it would be valuable, I will let you expound while I consider. Please do so if you like. jamison |
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31 | An interesting discussion/question | Romans | jamison | 204987 | ||
Hello Val, No problem. Look them over if you like. Doesn't matter if you agree. Just understand that I switched to the soul sleep (actual death) side after it was presented to me and I researched all these things. I studied the rich man and Lazarus parable, Moses and Elijah, Enoch, etc. I may be wrong, but I did look into all these as well as others. For example, regarding the transfiguration, in Matt 7:9 Jesus tells the disciples to not tell anyone of the vision. I looked up the word translated as vision (horama 3705). It is used 11 other times in the NT and is pretty obvious in the other usages that it refers to like a dream (notice Acts 12:9 especially when Peter actually wondered if something were true or a vision [horama]). Anyway, just food for thought. To answer your question, I believe that body, soul, spirit, mind, consciousness, all of you dies at death. However, we will live again after the Resurrection. jamison |
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32 | An interesting discussion/question | Romans | jamison | 204985 | ||
Doc, You can't just shoot down an idea because some other group might loosely agree with it. That is bad logic and very misleading to others reading your post. You have tried to lump me in with other religions in an attempt to discredit me. Anyone should be able to see the flaw there. For example, you believe that Jesus Christ came and died for sinners and that believing on Him is the way to be justified and go to heaven. Well, if I recall correctly (and I do since I have read the book of Mormon) that the Mormons believe the exact same thing. Does that mean you are a heretic or cult leader because one of your doctrines happens to coincide with one of theirs? I can give you more examples if necessary, but I think one is enough. If you want to point out an error in what I have written, please do. I am always looking to learn. But don't use silly arguments that don't hold up in an attempt to make me look foolish. To answer your question, I don't affiliate with any particular theological disposition or denomination or whatever. I am a follower of Jesus Christ. I don't claim to have all the answers, but I do know the Way, the Truth, and the Life. I don't even agree with all the theology of the church I attend. I am not trying to line up with any predetermined theology. I am trying to line up with Christ. jamison |
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33 | An interesting discussion/question | Romans | jamison | 204976 | ||
Hello Val, As I mentioned in the reply to Tamara, we all read into the Scriptures our own theology. We shouldn't, and we should all try not too. But we all do this. The sooner one realizes it, the better they become at avoiding it, but since they are human, they still will. It is impossible not to. As for the verses, there are plenty. Mostly in the OT, but a few in the NT. I know you like to do the inductive Bible study one book at a time. However, sometimes you have to step back and look at it as a whole. The OT scribes did not seem to believe in an afterlife. There are verses that due to vague translations appear to say otherwise (Ecc 12:7) but upon closer examination you find it doesn't mean afterlife in the Hebrew. Anyway, the OT writers didn't seem to believe in an afterlife. All who died (whether good or bad) went to the same place, Sheol. Which was basically just the grave. Sheol is described as a place of no knowledge, can't remember or praise God, gloom and deep shadow, disorder, where even light is like darkness, no working or planning or wisdom. By the way, in case you didn't read the post to Tamara, I don't call it soul sleep I call it death. I believe you ACTUALLY die, not just your body. When reading the OT it is apparent these guys thought the same thing. I believe you actually die...until the resurrection that is. If we don't actually die, then Satan didn't really lie to us did he (Gen 3:4)? We just live on forever somewhere else. Here are some verses to consider - Job 12:20 - Job 14:7-17 - Psalms 6:5 - Ecc 3:18-21 - Ecc 9:5 - Ecc 9:10 What is more important than what these verses say is what the rest of the OT doesn't say. It does not talk about an afterlife except for Daniel and Job. Both have an idea of time elapsing between death and resurrection. jamison |
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34 | An interesting discussion/question | Romans | jamison | 204974 | ||
Hello Tamara, Do I believe in soul sleep? Well, I wouldn't call it soul sleep. Usually the only ones who call it that are the ones who don't believe in it. I call it death. I don't get confused about "sleep" because of it being an idiom for death either. You're point on that is right, it was a euphemism. However, I believe that when you die, you ACTUALLY die, not just your body. You mention 2 Cor 5:8 and Phil 1:23. These are commonly taken to mean that once you leave the body you are present with the Lord. You also say that I have to read into it soul sleep. The problem with that is we (you, me, pretty much everyone) reads into Scripture whatever their theology is anyway. Some admit to this, others deny it, but we all do it, even though it is unintentional. Let me give you a little example. Rom 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." Well, here we usually read into this verse that "death" means separation from God or hell. We all read into plenty of verses, we should just try to do this as little as possible, but we will all still do it. Now, you say that Paul was not meaning a 2000 year gap. You might be right. I don't have all the answers, that is for sure. However, if Jesus is seated at the right hand of the Father in heaven, then how is it that we go to be with Him upon our death if no man has ascended to heaven (John 3:13, Acts 2:34 - David). That being said, when one dies then for them it is instantaneous. They don't know they are dead. It is sort of like anesthesia. You close your eyes and when you open them you are in the afterlife. You also mention that "Paul does not have any gap of time in mind here or he would have said so". Paul says neither and is quiet on the matter. Job says there is a gap of time (Job 14:7-17). It is definitely related as a time between death and resurrection. Anyway, I am rambling on. Soul sleep (or death as I call it) is really a minor point to me. It has much larger implications, but soul sleep is not too important really. But one more thing, if death is really the result of our sin. If that was really part of the curse God placed on Adam and Eve. Then what kind of curse is it if we don't really die? We just live on forever somewhere else right? You see, we still believe the very first lie don't we. "Ye shall not surely die: " (Gen 3:4). Take it for what you will. To avoid a debate I will let you have the last post. If you would like to discuss each other's points for more consideration you can email me at jamison2u@gmail.com jamison |
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35 | An interesting discussion/question | Romans | jamison | 204937 | ||
Hello Tamara, Just a comment on your post... 2Sa 12:23 But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me. This says the the child will NOT return to David, not that he would. Also, in Acts 2:34 Peter says specifically that David has not ascended to heaven, but (Acts 2:29) is dead and buried. Just a quick notation is all. PS, soul sleepers use the Acts 2 passage to defend soul sleep as well, believing in death being complete, not just body, until the resurrection when all shall be made alive. jamison |
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36 | What Jesus meant Matt 10:23.16:28 26:64 | Rev 17:10 | jamison | 204776 | ||
RC, I got it! I skimmed it quickly and it looks like you got some good points. Of course, I will have to research it more in depth. Thank you again. jamison |
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37 | What Jesus meant Matt 10:23.16:28 26:64 | Rev 17:10 | jamison | 204761 | ||
Hello RC, Just a little reminder. I haven't received that paper yet. Looking forward to it. jamison |
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38 | Theological Term: Predestination | Eph 1:5 | jamison | 204750 | ||
Doc, Thank you for the 4 possibilities. I did not look them up, but merely assumed their meaning from their name. It appears to me that Particular Predestination and Particular Reprobation are the same thing. If one is true, the other is automatically true. Correct me if I am wrong on that one. Also, I didn't see an option for Free Will choice, or whatever. I think it is certainly an option. The thing that gets me is that I think we are missing something. Predestination seems quite clear in certain passages, especially Romans 9. However, it also seems that God does not want any to perish, as Val and Tim have pointed out. The two seem to be in direct opposition, but both have substantial merit in Scripture. That is why I was looking for another option. It isn't like we are going to resolve this 2000 yr debate (or older), but maybe someone had an idea that I/we had not considered. PS, I did look up the universal predestination. That goes against everything I was taught, but provided a way of reconciling predestination with God's love. Most of it hinged on translating the Greek in to "eternal" or "everlasting" into English, but I don't know Greek. And a flag goes up when you start messing with the translations (ie Jehovah's Witness). However, it does seem to solve the biggest issue I have with predestination. God's Love. jamison |
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39 | Theological Term: Predestination | Eph 1:5 | jamison | 204708 | ||
I think the problem with predestination (or at least the problem we have in accepting it) is due to the logical consequences it entails. If God is literally going to burn people in hell forever and ever, then anyone He doesn't choose or predestine, He is in a sense choosing for them to be tortured forever. We don't like to put that on God as it cannot be reconciled with His love for us or His desire that none should perish. The fact that we cannot reconcile it, does not mean it is not true. But it makes it very difficult to view God this way. Certainly those whom He has predestined would love and praise Him, but then you step back and look at those whom He does not choose and you wonder, "Does He not love them? How great and merciful can He be if He chose to torture them forever even before they were born or did anything wrong or right." And what if it was your children that He was choosing to not predestine. Does He love your little boy or girl less than you do? It is difficult for many to view God in this light, whether or not it is true. Just because we don't understand it doesn't mean it isn't true, but it certainly makes it more difficult. Of course, that assumes these are the only two possibilities. Does anyone have a third or fourth possibility? jamison |
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40 | What Jesus meant Matt 10:23.16:28 26:64 | Rev 17:10 | jamison | 204641 | ||
RC, You mentioned an 8 page study you would send me. Please do so. jamison2u@gmail.com. Thank you. I will look over it. jamison |
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