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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
21 | When did the catholic church go wrong? | Bible general Archive 1 | Paulfromnys | 25983 | ||
Hi Joe, These words are not born in academics, but in my spirit. You probably have a better grasp of historical specifics than me(highschool and 27 years in the faith aware of such issues). I once did a study on churh history and spent several months about these things. But it is the reality of how people and churches respond to what GOD has declared in His word which moves me to speak in these terms. Joe --The Reformers, just like those who came before, did not seek to overthrow the Church of Rome, but to bring it back to the basics as seen in Scripture. Hence the name "REFORM." Originally there was never any intent to form new branches of Christendom, but to fix what was wrong in the existing ones. ------------ Yes this was in the hearts of many including Luther, but it found no interest in Rome, as she was pre-eminent in her own mind, and abided no one telling her of needed reforms, to include the Spirit of GOD as being revealed in His word. Believers seek to overthrow or protest nothing except the power of sin in mens life through the gospel of Jesus Christ. Joe: --Please provide some historical examples from the Dark Ages of groups that held true to the biblical faith AND split off from the institution of Roman Catholicism.--------------- There are books of Martyrs giving many testimonies of how Rome(church) responded to those who whould not embrace her, and yet maintained a testimony for Christ. History tells of her brutality in the inquisition. She is known to have manipulated governments to obtain her ends, to include many wars. These are historical facts Joe, but the spiritual reality is that she seeks her own glory, and to bind men to herself. As I said this was evident when she was in a position of power, but today she must lay low, for much of her real power is gone, but she's working on it. Joe --Please also demonstrate how the verse you cited refers to Rome: "For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect." --Matthew 24:24 Good question Joe, sinse it dosen't. Look at Revelation 17:5 and see the whore having daughters, harlots. These are the many groups and organizations who sinse the reformation have conformed themselves in ever deeper ways to what the scriptures are saying. One good test to avoid the spirit of Babylon is to refuse membership in anything except the already established membership all believers have in the body of Christ by the sure promises of GOD received in the faith of jesus Christ, our life and Lord. Carnal distinctions are forbidden believers by scripture, yet babylon will always insist that belonging to her is the real expression of the Holy Spirit. The Roman church is not this, for she is easily discerned as off, and twisting the word of GOD Yours in Christ, Paul |
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22 | When did the catholic church go wrong? | Bible general Archive 1 | Paulfromnys | 25952 | ||
Hi Ed, yes as I said, the church is a living communion with GOD in the attonement of our Lord Jesus Christ. Nothing more, nothing less. The church continued on as Babylon was born, and began to grow(Babylon). When Babylon(Roman church) came to a position of pre-eminent power, her real nature was revealed as she sought to bind all men to herself, and destroyed all who refused. During the dark ages undeceived believers continued to witness to the realities of the gospel, and refused to recognize the Roman church as in the faith of Jesus Christ. For this many were killed. At the reformation a witness(Holy Spirit) againest the Roman church was given(Luther, ect) and Her power over the lives of men was broken. But men did much the same as they did with Constintine 1300 years earlier and organized themselves into churches with intimate relationships with the governments of the world. And now while the intimidating, life threatening power of Babylon was broken a new threat as revealed in Matthew 24:24 was undertaken by the spirit of anti-Christ. These realities are shown symbolicaly in spiritual language in Revelations 17, and GODS counsel to those within these systems in Revelation 18:4. If you notice 17:5 says she is a whore, and the mother of harlots. She is now calling her daughters back to herself in the eccumenical movement, as her headship(the devil) lusts for one more crack at real power in the lives of men. |
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23 | Genesis 3:1-7 | Genesis | Paulfromnys | 25948 | ||
Hi Tim, Then your saying it was literal fruit like an apple?? You make a valid point, but I believe we have to see what was the reality of the trees in the garden, and consequently their fruit. Do you believe the tree of Life to be a person, even our Lord Jesus Christ?? If this is true, the His fruit would be his very life, symbolically consumed in the eating of bread. In specific terms His fruit would be SPECIFIC ACTS from love, joy, peace, ect... |
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24 | Genesis 3:1-7 | Genesis | Paulfromnys | 25892 | ||
Hello Ed, the question is, what was the action involved in the partaking of the fruit, and what act was taken by Eve to Adam to do likewise?? I don't believe it was eating of literal fruit. It could well of been the all encompassing choice of taking the lust of the flesh, eye, and the pride of life in itself. But I believe these motives of the heart were expressed in an act of partaking of the very fruit of sin. It makes perfect sense to me that conceiving life in these motives would bring the seed of an enemy among men, even as the parable of the two sowers shows. I guess in spiritualizing the whole episode with Adam, Eve, and the serpent, it could be excactly as you say, for this indeed bears out throughout scripture. I'm just stuck on the actual act of partaking. Thanks, and I'll post if I get anymore clarity, hope you'll do likewise. Yours in Christ, Paul |
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25 | Abel's sacrifice better than Cain's? | Heb 11:4 | Paulfromnys | 25855 | ||
I believe the key here is faith, especially sinse this appears in Hebrews 11, a chapter dedicated to faith. I think that Abel slew his lamb offering to GOD by faith, and had a clear revelation that this innocent blood had to be shed to cover the way he related to GOD. Cains sacriface on the other hand was an offering from Cain to make things OK with him, and GOD, a sort of religious thing. | ||||||
26 | Women speak in church? | 1 Cor 14:34 | Paulfromnys | 25833 | ||
I believe there is more than a little truth in this. GOD made Debroah a Judge in Israel because the men would not respond. She even had to kill the enemy of Israel because the men would not. This is not GODS order, yet the final judgement as to why these things manifest in GODS judgement will I believe rest upon the men. | ||||||
27 | When did the catholic church go wrong? | Bible general Archive 1 | Paulfromnys | 25827 | ||
Well I'm not strongly grounded in the history, or unfolding of these things, just shooting from the hip. I believe what happened at niciae is very much akin to what happened when Israel asked for a king to be over her like the other nations(1 Samuel 8:19,20). Israel was experiencing much distress at the time, but she had a covenant relationship with GOD to live and overcome through. This she rejected in order to deal with her problems as other nations(unbelief, arm of flesh). What this truly was GOD revealed in 1 Samuel 8:7. This is exactly what I believe those believers embracing Constintine and the covering of the Roman Empire did at Niciea. ED: Any thoughts about the compromises you felt entered the church in 300 AD era? The church is by defination those who live in a real moment to moment communion with GOD as their Father through the attonement of our Lord Jesus Christ. Nothing added, nothing taken away. You cannot join the church, you MUST be born into it. So the straight foward ansewer to that question is that the believers embracing the protection and sanction of the Roman Empire left the church, and began the first expression of Babylon sinse the attonement of Christ. As such these would be the members of the spirit wishing to destroy the faith of Jesus Christ in the lives of men. ED: Had the compromises the early non-believers brought become so ingrained that they were no longer an issue? It's my personal belief that the adversary had succeeded in taking the hearts of many from their first love. By this I mean that many were moved by stress and pressures from a complete intrustment of themselves to Christ in love, into trying of themselves, and apart from the faith of GOD to deal with the many things confronting the early church. These things are a testimony to us, today. |
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28 | Genesis 3:1-7 | Genesis | Paulfromnys | 25813 | ||
Hi Ed. I agree, it seems to be exactly as you have said, but I add that scriptures are a revelation of the Holy Spirit, and I think you'll agree that they do interpt themselves. I guess I expect alot in a rational consideration of this, but that is exactly what i expect. GOD is not violated when we seek honestly to understand His word to us(Malachi 3:16-18), GOD is violated when attributes, and understandings are ascribed to Him which are not true. When we say we know, but all we have is an intellectual concept, or personal interptation we are wrong. How do you explain the corruptness ascribed to our flesh as the breeding ground of that which is directly opposed to GODS desire twords us. If our flesh were merely the GOD given residence of our spirits fallen into disobedience, why are we exorted so strongly in scripture to mortify its deeds to live?? Why is Cain the first born from GODS creation an exact reflection of our accusser?? Why does scripture identify Cain as; "of that wicked one"?? How do we understand the parable of the two sowers?? Why did GOD maintain a pure PHYSICAL lineage from Adam to our Lord?? I would to consider these and many other considerations with any willing person, but I really don't want to get into discussions of whos doing what to the scripture. I could lie down this understanding in a second if I saw it false to what our Lord is saying to us. Yet at this time I believe it to be reflective of what GOD is revealing in His word. I'm sorry if this offends, or upsets any. While that is very important, it's not our main consideration in Christ. Please no more responses that this is a perverting of scripture, I fully realize that alot is read into those verses by what I'm seeing, but I believe that scripture is in harmony with this understanding, so I consider it very seriously. I hope all would be honest enough to say that the eating of literal fruit from a literal tree is also an interptation. Not only that, but it is an interptation which does not flow from Genesis to Revelation, as I believe all scripture should. |
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29 | Genesis 3:1-7 | Genesis | Paulfromnys | 25775 | ||
OK, thats an honest opinion of Nolan. How do you see the two sowers in light of this?? How do you see Cain described as of that wicked one?? How do you see the contrast between flesh and spirit so powerfully drawn in Romans 8?? I've thought on these and many other things as I've sought GOD in His word. Your right, I am seeing the events of Genesis 3:1-7 in a way not clearly shown by those verses, but scripture interpts itself, in the revelation of GOD. Nolan: As for raising up your "faults" with Scripture, I have been known on this Forum for doing just that. And I will not hesistate to tell you that you are, in fact, twisting and adding your own interpretations to this Scripture by stating your false assertions about this passage, in which any credible scholar would not support nor find reasonable. I guess thats the end of that. I don't think it will do any good to continue now, so lets leave it alone after your next response, if you choose to respond. |
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30 | Genesis 3:1-7 | Genesis | Paulfromnys | 25715 | ||
Thats a lousy way to end any reasoning. I'm not twisting, I'm trying to see what is being said. If you take scripture at face value, then show how the scriptures and points I raised are in error WITH SCRIPTURE. If you can't, or don't wish to do that, then why accuse me of doing the last thing I'd ever want to be guilty of?? | ||||||
31 | Genesis 3:1-7 | Genesis | Paulfromnys | 25674 | ||
Greetings Nolan: You said: Genesis 3:1-7 is referring to a tangible fruit on a tree, not a symbolic fruit of fornication. It had to be tangible so that she could be ordered not to "touch" it (v.3), or eat it (v.3,6). But they did eat of the fruit and their eyes were opened. My reply: The spiritual realities of these things are real, more real than the natural. The fruit of GODS Spirit is love, joy, peace......The fruit of unbelief(sin) is envy, strife, fornication...... Nolan: If the tree of the knowledge of good and evil were symbolic, then how do explain the tree of Life in Genesis 2:9 and Revelation 22:2,14. I believe that these are literal trees. If that is so, then Adam and Eve ate of "literal" fruit as well! Paul: Jesus Christ the only begotten of GOD is the tree of life, and the man of sin is the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Embracing what either brings to you will bear fruit in one life. Nothing can grow in us but that we accept it, either by desire(unforgivable), or through deception(power of the devil which Jesus destroyed). We will grow and be formed in Jesus, or in the spirit of this world. So I don't believe it was an apple or such, but rather a specific act meant to bring Eve and Adasm into sin. Nolan: Moreover, it was a "serpent" that deceived Eve (2 Cor. 11:3), not a man. Paul: creatures are often used of GOD to portray the position of a man. Our Lord is not a lion, yet He is the Lion of the tribe of Judah. The fact is that all man is apart from GOD is a beast(like the one in Revelation). The serpent portrays the agency of a man in service to the devil(more subtile than any creature). Jesus identified the pharisees as snakes. Nolan: And the NT does not allude to any possibility other than the fact that Adam and Eve were deceived by eating fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (1 Tim. 2:13,14). Adam and Eve were the ONLY TWO HUMANS on earth at the time of the Garden of Eden. Paul: It says first Adam, then Eve, but as to what happened after the disobedience, well we can think on it. I'm seeing that many children were born of fornication, and that this was the specific act which Eve partook of, and brought to Adam. GOD kept a pure lineage for His seed, but the rest fell into mixture, and the bearing of the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil. Look at matthew 13:37-43 in regards to this, as Jesus explains the two sowers to His disciples. GOD bless us all in our desire to know and please Him, Paul |
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32 | what is baptism | Bible general Archive 1 | Paulfromnys | 25383 | ||
It is the promise of GOD to immerse us into Christ as our life. I'm a little burned out right now, but I think if you look at any verses at all regarding baptism; this will be born out. Goodnite, and GOD bless us in our desire to know and love Him. | ||||||
33 | How am I expected to be perfect? | Matt 5:48 | Paulfromnys | 25233 | ||
We're perfect only through our confidence in GOD that He can do exactly as He said He would. One thing which comes to mind is He promised to write His word in our minds and hearts; PERFECT. | ||||||
34 | Lowest Common Denominator | Bible general Archive 1 | Paulfromnys | 25232 | ||
Well we know who GOD loves, so the lcd would be, who do you love?? | ||||||
35 | Bible and evolution both? | Gen 1:1 | Paulfromnys | 25231 | ||
Well I guess a spipit of deception, or delusion in the case of those willfully denying GOD(because they love their evil ways more than truth), or in the case of those not really knowing, they just haven't had their eyes opened. I do believe alot of this boils down to desire, as faith is the substance of things hoped for. GOD gives those who don't want the reality of life with Him over to their idols until judgement, then they are seperated from life as they have chosen in truth to be. |
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