Results 21 - 37 of 37
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Results from: Notes Author: Dachande Ordered by Date |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
21 | Apostles, Prophets? An Office for Today? | NT general Archive 1 | Dachande | 98471 | ||
Justme, I would like to obtain some of these Mormon Anit-Literatuare of which you speak... To clarify, I give inquire into ALL Churches who profess Christ as their Savior and teach it thus from the Bible... I have spent time with "Mormons", and have learned that is just a modern slang, with the 7th Day Advin, the Cathlics, Southern Baptists, Gerneral Baptists, Protostents, shortly with the JW's, Christian Science, and also my research into the learnings of the Christian Scholars of Modern and Eearly Church times... And from everything I have learned form and about all of these religions is that the LDS Church is branded non Christian and Cultists because of their stand on the "Trinity"... I have also noticed that the Cathlic Church believes the "Trinity" but they are commonly titled, just as much as the Mormons to be Cultists... The Southern Baptists told me that Mormons are not Christians soley on the "Trinity", yet Cathlic are not Christians and they believe the "Trinity"... I just find trouble with all of these labels when most all profess Christ as there Lord and Savior and take upon his name to be titled... "Christian" But if the Cathlics and Mormons profess Christ, how are they not Christian? It seems to me that the modern labeling of a Cult is "They're different from us" being who ever labels them... Justme, what is the true meaning of a Cult? as to your undertand I will look into what Dr. White has to say, but I will share more reluctance with learning from someone who, more or less, preaches an ANTI theme... I've read many ANTI theme literature and have inquired the Church that is being attacked, and the followers in that Church state "they do not believe as such"... You also say the JW's are a Cult... by todays standards maybe... but would the Jews be as well? Their doctrine was once correct... I just find trouble how most all of these Church's teach from the Bible and have Truths in them... but many fall short from Biblical Teachings... and if the Bible is the word of God and Christ established His Church, why do we seek to Church's of men for Gods word? And Justme, I do use my Bible, every day, and I do pray about any and all doctrine I encounter... but I also do not speculate the truth as it comes from Anti Material, I ask them dirrectly Oh, the other post, it wasn't pretty... but there wasn't very many rational posts by any side... I do believe there is here and would love to continue this discusion... Just forgive my grammer and spelling, I am dyslexic and the fact that I will question everything and everyone on information, and I will pray and ask of God to be directed to the truth, James1:5 tells me thus is appropriate... Thanks again and I wait for your reply Joe |
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22 | Apostles, Prophets? An Office for Today? | NT general Archive 1 | Dachande | 98401 | ||
And why is it, the LDS Church is the only Church I've come across who does not print an ANTI-Literature period... when asked with this they reply of their Articles of Faith, I don't know which one but they say "They believe man has the right to worship God according to the desires of his heart." I know they are a very chastised Church but if they are so tolerant, why can't everyone else? I guess issues like this makes it hard to want to go to "Church" when not all Churches are nice to each other... But also, back to the origanal topic, I came across a scripture again... and I cannot remember the reference... I've been up all night working, forgive me... but I can sumorize it... It's the one that says There is one Church, one God, and one Baptism... If Christ form his Church with Apostles and Prophets should not there be ONE Church under this same Biblical Structure? I am aware of the offices of Bishops, Pastors, Deacons, ETC. Since the office of Apostles was a limited number tand they ordained the offices to administer to immediate congrigations... But should not all the Church's be united under this Biblical Structure? If an Apostle said there is ONE Church... the Irvingites attempted to... but still fell short of Biblical Structure... and I don't know how many other people will get onto this, but I do not want another argument like what happened before, I never wanted that and am not pursuaded another... this is a serious issue to me as I read my Bible and work done by Christian Scholars of present and early times, and pray about these and I get a lot out of others sharing their beliefs, so please do not attack me like before... Justme, that wasn't to you, you seem to share the same interest in keeping inilectual discusion, I hope to hear again from you Joe I wrote TOO much and had to break in Two |
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23 | Apostles, Prophets? An Office for Today? | NT general Archive 1 | Dachande | 98400 | ||
I'm sorry I was not able to get back to you sooner... I read something interesting last night at work, around, 1829-1832, there was a Church in London founded by a man named Irving, they were known as Irvingites. He founded the Church of the bases of Prophets and Apostles but was very different, the Prophets were actually Prophetesses and the only revilation the proclaimed was through the commonly practiced "Speaking of Tounges", I don't remember which denomination class that would be, and since I can't remember, I won't guess, we're all familiar with it. But the biggest point is that these Prophetesses were above the Apostles and the self sustained and founding minister, Irving... No offence to women, but for females to have an authoritive position in leading the Church it is completely unBiblical, I'm sure we'll all familiar with 1 Corinthians. The office of a Prophetess is rather Biblical though, Arron's sister Miriam was a Prophetess, Ex.15:20... Needless to say these Prophetesses also went against one of the teachings of Paul, "Thou shalt not rebuke an Elder, but entreat him as a father." These women were damning the founder and minister Irving... Needless to say from all understanding from my reading, that Church collapsed... I will investigate their history as is it rather interesting... Justme, I agree with you on Gene Robinson, the thought is he's ever read Leviticus comes to mind :) and to boldly state that God's teachings and scriptures are wrong about sexuality is to say "If God is wrong about one thing, why can't he be wrong about another? or all things, or were these revelations truely devine?" Which is absolutly obsurd, that man has undermind the Lords authority and integrity when he has no Biblical support for his "Biblically Immorality" and still thinks he is worthy to speak on the things of God. He is absolutly unworthy of such a title. And then again, since when did God call his ministers by leting MEN "VOTE"!!! It truely is an abomination in all Biblical Teachings, a man must be called of God and ordained by the Laying on of Hands, the Bible says it... But then again... even though I have read it a few times, maybe I haven't "really read it" yet as an opposing argument. But I believe we argee on this issue... And I truely believe that our country and world is more Anti-Christian than in the days of the origanal Church, but less so from the "Non-Christians" Our MAJOR Anti-Christianity problems seem to flow from... "Christianity" Many denominations fight over doctrine and accuse each other of False Doctrines and False Prophets... becoming the "Accusers" Paul spoke of... Here are two examples of anti Christian litterature... Holy Terror, and The God Makers Holy Terror was written as an Anti-Born Again Christian work... and The God Makers as an Anti-LDS work... and upon reading the content of both books they are almost parellel in their accusations against the Born Again's and Mormon's... but upon discussing these with members of the Born Again faith and the LDS faith, these two books are complete exadurations and false teachings against these two Churches... and these books have self proclaimed Christian Authors... I think this is horrible, these are not the only examples I've seen, I've seen the Baptists curse the Mormon's, the Cathlics, Jehovah Witteness, 7th Day Advin, and the Southern Baptist against the... "General" Baptists... and other Church litterature back and forth, and when you compare what they say to a truely educated member of that faith, they testify that these things are not true... if these thigns are not true, why are they being printed against fellow Christians? Take it I know the LDS, Cathlic, 7th Day, and JW's do'nt fall under the typical term "Christian", but if they're so wrong, why be the Accusers? Won't the Lord bring order to his followers? |
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24 | Apostles, Prophets? An Office for Today? | NT general Archive 1 | Dachande | 98327 | ||
Justme, I'm always willing to share my thoughts, and you are peaceful and humble in your reply, and I respect that I only propose the idea that, "Why can't we have Apostles or Prphets anymore?" The early Jews said that there were no more prophets, but John the Baptist ushered in Christ, and Christ established His Church with Apostles... I believe that if we had these same Holy Men, many of the contentions between denominations could be resolved... but then the problem goes back to the Jews regected the prophets time and time again... and even CHRIST... so who would say Apostles or Prophets would solve our confusion "As a world" on the exact meaning of scripture, how would we truely know if these men were sent of God proclaiming to know these things? Could we recognize them? Are we too stuck in our ways like the Jews? I believe that the same kind of responces of the early Church would happen today... Not because we're so righteous, or so sinful... because we are MEN, and to the Apostles Christ showed ALL things, to us, the Apostles revealed SOME things... I think we as humans are afraid of change/reformation of our religion... The Jews, the Christians, and I'm sure even the Asian religions faced the same issues... And what I said about errors here and there are not what I see... but what other Churches see in eachother... obviously for example, the Cathlic Church finds faults in the Protostent Churches, and vise versa, and even the many denominations condend with each other... My point is none of these Chruches establish that they have "Apostles or Prophets" leading their Church through direct devine relavation, like the origanal Church did... And if Apostles were to come again, how would we recognize them? and why can't they come again? mmm... how's that? :) I hope to hear from you, I don't make claims of knowing perfect doctrine, I just like to ask the "Why Not? Question" And Justme, I have never read the "Word of Knowledge" of which you speak Joe |
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25 | Apostles, Prophets? An Office for Today? | NT general Archive 1 | Dachande | 98252 | ||
If I may clarify one thing... The term Prophet/Prophetes is set aside for those who have the gift of "Prophacy" females can have the gift of Prophacy as well... I don't see why we couldn't and shouldn't have Prophets today to establish peace between all the churches and correct any foul doctrine, since there's so many churches there has to be errors here and there |
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26 | And what about those who will die before | NT general Archive 1 | Dachande | 98250 | ||
Searcher is right, be careful... I suggest James 1:5, it basically says if you don't know you may ask God in pray and he will testify to you the things that are true |
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27 | And what about those who will die before | NT general Archive 1 | Dachande | 98249 | ||
Ummm other Joe... Heinlin's theory doesn't oppose the gift of salvation... it demonstrates that blind faith erases the value of the gift... To blindly say you believe for the sake of being saved gives no value to the gift of salvation... I'm not pointing fingers, but there are many people who think just 'cause they say they're saved, they're saved... Which is why the gift of salvation isn't necissarilly "Free" in the understanding of most people... we still must do our part by keeping and exercising our Faith in Christ, that in itself is a "work" and Grace makes up the rest... which means we do our required part to earn it... so it's not quite... "free" as the word is so liberally used... I'm not saying it's impossible, since, obviously it requires little to do, but a little is still required Joe |
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28 | And what about those who will die before | NT general Archive 1 | Dachande | 98247 | ||
Heh heh, why thank you Tim! I've been up all night and I believe I got my second wake when it clicked, I seemed to offend Hank by accident but I do have to remember when I talk to people to break down what I want to say... I'm in the military and used to being very blunt, so it occasionally gets in the way ;( I gotta get ready to leave, but I'd say you're an easy guy to talk to Tim Joe |
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29 | And what about those who will die before | NT general Archive 1 | Dachande | 98241 | ||
Oh wonderful, I just lost everything I wrote... I hate it when web browsers do that... Anyway... Hello again... I'll sum up what got erased... I believe we are trying to convince each other of 2 different understandings of the word WORKS... Yes, salvation comes from the atoning blood of Jesus Christ and through faith in him... But if we do not exercise our Faith what will happen to it? Christ likened faith to a mustard seed, that if we water it, it will grow... But also if we do not water our seed, will it not shrink and die away? We must exercise our faith for it to maintain it and to grow it... We exercise our faith through our works... our obedience to the commandments, etc... So Tim, I'm going to quote you "'those who claim' to have faith, but do not live it - do not really have faith" Is absolutly correct, and is near to what I am saying, except that some people loose their faith because they do not exercise it It would make Faith, Grace, and Works all equally important... for works magnify our faith, and Grace is magnified by our faith... The Jews were scorned for holding on to the Law of Moses, they thought that obedience to the Law of Moses was enough... hence by their "Works" they are saved... which was false I'm not saying that by baptism we are saved, or by professing of the mouth we are saved... alone... And Tim, in Eph 2:9 "Not of works, lest any man should boast." This is a very historically verse, the pharisee's did many outwardly acts of righteousness, and were braggards to their self proclaimed righteousness... Which is why we were discussing 2 different meanings... Paul condemed the outwardly acts like the pharisee's, and James incouraged exercising faith... I believe this confusion is the basis for these way too indepth discussion of a simple topic... I hope this will more or less end this thread, 'least with my involvement... I would like to get onto other topics in the near future... Tim, you presented a well case and your explination I believe helped me realize a plainer way to express myself, thank you Joe |
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30 | And what about those who will die before | NT general Archive 1 | Dachande | 98230 | ||
If I may once again enlighten you on my... "attempt" If you are to reread carefully, I do not say that God's gift of salvation has no value... But something GIVEN, has no value... To merely GIVE salvation underminds all the teachings of Christ, and his Apostles... My attempt was not to enrage you, but to open your mind to the fact that Salvation is not free... To blindly give salvation away goes against the teachings of the prophets... For if no unclean thing can dweal in the presence of God then how is it I merely say, "I believe." and I am saved? The children of Isreal and the early Christians were constantly commaned to repent and be baptized... Why would we be COMMANDED to Repent if all I have to do is "Belive" God's gift of Salvation is the greatest gift of all, but it is not a free gift, and to presume so is ignorant to the teachings of Apostles I hope this will help humble you and know that I do not undermine the greatness of God, but glorify Him in exponding the importance of His Son, Jesus Christ... If I offended you I am sorry, but I am not sorry for the teachings of the Apostles and Prophets |
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31 | And what about those who will die before | NT general Archive 1 | Dachande | 98229 | ||
Excuse me? Abuse? Truth is not obscure... You are over reacting sir, I am as well a man... but if you can't soft heartingly listen to others than you should not flame a forum... I in no way abused this forum, and would appriciate if you wished to flame me to ask if you could contact me via email, I'd be more than happy to take critisism one on one, but in a public forum it is inappropriate |
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32 | And what about those who will die before | NT general Archive 1 | Dachande | 98227 | ||
Me again... I'm not going to quote scripture... but I'll quote Heinlad :) For those who have either seen or read StarShip Troopers... abslutly awsome book... "Something given has no value." Hence I go back to James2:17, faith without works is dead :) |
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33 | And what about those who will die before | NT general Archive 1 | Dachande | 98226 | ||
Who are you agian... Hank... yes Hank... I do not have time to touch on everything you have proposed, which are great questions... But on my referance on James and Paul, the difficulty in reading the Bible is we are almost 2,000 years past from when these books were written... and many of the books were letters written to a certain people who lacked in certain aspects of the Gospel Paul and James never contradict each other... They compliment each other... The problem with the Bible is the Bible was not written as the Bible, thus the writtings in it are their own Books, each dirrected to a certain audience... who each had their own short comings in keeping the commandments... and is lacking of many of the writtings of the Apostles... If anyone has problem with this state, research the Nicean Council, under the direction of Constantine, a standardized set of scripture was compiled and the introduction of Christianity was brought into the Roman Empire to keep the peace... the standardized scripture is the not the Bible as we know it today, it had more books which were taken out, some are familiar with the Cathlic Bible having more scripture, the Apocrypha is another notable set of books which the Nicean Council said to not have enough "Cannan" to be included in their set of scripture... Now back to where I was going... To say Paul taught a gospel of grace would undermine his intent, the same goes for James... but since they both were Apostles of God, they were holy men and were both correct... Paul was correcting Christians who practiced a Works only gospel, and James was correcting a Faith only gospel... And if the teachings of the Apostles are taught with the history of who and why they taught what they did, to who they did... the fullness of the gospel can be brought together and more easily understood Peter also commanded, not suggested, in Acts 10:48, to be baptized in the name of the Lord... Was I nicer? I tried to be :) |
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34 | And what about those who will die before | NT general Archive 1 | Dachande | 98224 | ||
I apologized for my bluntness, and do so again, it was late and my proof reading is poor at time | ||||||
35 | And what about those who will die before | NT general Archive 1 | Dachande | 98223 | ||
Hey, you're a good sport, it's all good, this is why these forums are here, so we can share our views, teach each other and learn from each other I just hope I didn't come off like a jerk, and if I did, I apologize... Man, I got a big response on this :) |
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36 | And what about those who will die before | NT general Archive 1 | Dachande | 98222 | ||
Is the Catechism from what church? Because I've never read of the Nicene council giving it any Cannan, and since it was a council of men, their ideas of Cannan exluded many books written by the Apostles and is thus, irrelivent to this discussion |
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37 | WHy four gospels not one? | NT general Archive 1 | Dachande | 98131 | ||
Curtman, great referances | ||||||
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