Results 21 - 40 of 177
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Results from: Notes Author: Bill Mc Ordered by Date |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
21 | Does it take away sins or not? | Lev 16:34 | Bill Mc | 20096 | ||
Oh,oh...we've been caught! We better start a new thread. See how the Law works, Sir Pent? Tell us not to do something and we just go and do it anyway. I wonder if I was predistined to go off topic or if I just chose to? Oh well...start a new thread guys if you want to discuss the 'pin' thingy. ;) In the flesh, Bill Mc |
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22 | Does it take away sins or not? | Lev 16:34 | Bill Mc | 20092 | ||
Gentlemen, I had to read Jim's site about three times before I could see where he was going with the Argument argument. I'm not saying that I agree with his conclusions, but I did find them interesting. I, too, agree that the world (and, in fact, Christendom) believes in many different Jesuses (I'm not sure how to spell the plural of Jesus, maybe it should be Jesi). But I do think that we all tend to create God in our image to some extent. We all have filters that we perceive truth through. Please, Joe and Tim, do not take what I am about to say as a personal attack. I respect you both. You both have been helpful to me in different aspects and I appreciate it. But, brothers, you cannot be both right if the issue is as diametrically opposed as you insist. I have to admit, I have not studied Calvinism or Armenianism at all. Not one wit. Why? Because of the arguing present over it. There is a staunch, 5-point Calvinist at my church (his label, not mine) who has the most hateful things to say about Armenianists that I left his Sunday School class. Is this my problem? Could be. But I did not view the issue as edifying to the body of Christ at all. (Joe, I am not pointing at you, brother. You have never come close to saying some of the things this Calvinist has said.) Does my lack of understanding in this area cause a deficiency in my understanding of the plan of salvation and God's nature? Not from my perspective. Why? Because I believe that everything that we need to know to be saved is in the scripture and the same Holy Spirit that revealed the meaning to Calvin and to Armenius will reveal the meaning to me. God does not say that He would send Calvin and Armenius to remind us of what Christ said or to lead us into all truth. He gives us the Holy Spirit to do so as we humbly submit ourselves to having our minds renewed by God's Word and the mind of Christ available to us. What does Calvinism or Armenianism add to the gospel of Jesus Christ? Once you are saved, does it matter one wit whether you chose or whether God did? For those who are not saved, do we have the right to decide who the chosen are and are not? Now, you're probably both, Joe and Tim, saying, "Bill doesn't understand my view at all." This is true. But it is also true that what little I do understand of the argument has led me to 'perceive' the argument as I've stated it, whether my perception is correct or not. This is the connotation it presents to me. Again, is it my problem? Probably. But, from my perspective, God has had true believers all down through the centuries that have placed their hope and trust in Christ alone as revealed through the scriptures by the Holy Spirit. How either Calvin or Armenius could add anything to the full revelation of God through Jesus Christ is beyond me. I believe that if you try to add ANYTHING to the gospel, then you detract from it. To insist that God has given a 'fuller' revelation to any one individual then what His Word says smacks of favoritism (which God does not show) and the beginnings of cultish theology. We are ALL of one Spirit if we are in Christ. We were ALL baptized into His body, the church. In closing, I agree that truth is important. That was one thing that Jim said that did make sense. We are all growing in our knowledge of grace and truth and the love of our Lord. Jesus, as Jim said, is the embodiment of grace and truth. We cannot find either apart from Him. Well, I've said enough. Grace and peace to you both. I love you both in the Lord. Now, on to really important matters...Did God predestine for a certain number of angels to dance on the head of a pin, or do the angels, having free will, choose who will and will not? :) In Christ, Bill Mc |
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23 | Does it take away sins or not? | Lev 16:34 | Bill Mc | 20075 | ||
Brothers in Christ, Here is a very interesting 'perception' of the whole argument - Calvinism vs. Arminianism. If your mind is already made up, this probably will not help. But if you are open to searching for the truth of the whole issue, then you might find this enlightening: http://theshovel.net/argument/index.htm In Christ, Bill Mc |
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24 | How is it a law without consequences? | Rom 5:8 | Bill Mc | 19983 | ||
Searcher, Thanks for the response. I use the NASB for my word studies and correlate it with my interlinear. They both have the word "not" in Gal 5:18. That is the best I can do because I cannot read Greek. You are right that we will probably not agree on the relationship of law and grace/mercy. That's too bad because I feel all Christians need a solid understanding of both. You need to know that though I don't think that we are under Law, I am not without a 'guidance system.' I do, indeed, have one. It is no longer the external Law written on stone but the law of Christ internally written upon my heart and mind. So, at heart, I am not anti-Law. But, be that as it may, I will respect your right to disagree with me. With that in mind, I will have to pass up answering some of your questions for the sake of peace on this issue. It wouldn't do either of us any good for me to respond to a Law question, "Searcher, we are not under Law" when you believe that we are. So I will be a little bit 'pickier' on what questions I submit answers to. Searcher, I would appreciate if you read my fairly current question on whether we are under the Mosaic Law or not. Even if you don't agree with me, it would be helpful if you saw the scriptures listed there that show why I take such a strong stance on this issue. In Christ, Bill Mc |
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25 | healing | Ps 103:3 | Bill Mc | 19888 | ||
Dear James48, Thanks for your kind reply. I do agree that often times these two 'healings' are portrayed together. I'll be honest with you, brother. I do not know why sometimes God heals and sometimes He doesn't. I have witnessed a few 'miraculous recoveries' that I would attribute to our Lord's divine intervention. At the same time, like you, I have seen chronic illnesses that, so far, have not gone away despite much praying, anointing with oil, 'healing services', and faith. This much I am convinced of: 1. God still does miracles, yes, even healing and 2. He doesn't always do them (especially on our timetables). I've lived long enough to see both. I cannot stick God in a box and tell Him that He can't do what He did back during Christ's earthly ministry and, then again, because He did it back then, I cannot demand that He do it now. Right or wrong, He is sovereign. And I do not think that it is a matter of the quantity of faith one has. The amount of faith is not important, the Object of our faith is. But, James48, as I said in my other post, any physicallying healing we are blessed enough to receive is but a temporary measure. I do have some older friends that do have chronic illnesses - back problems, arthritis, cancer, severe heart problems, etc. And yet some of these older saints exude such a spirit of humbleness and confidence in the Lord and His goodness, despite their pain, that I know somehow their sufferings are glorifying their Lord. It really comes down to a matter of trust. I'm reminded of Job's pledge, "Though He slay me, yet will I serve Him." That is a confidence and trust that no disease can ravage. Keep seeking for your answers. In Christ, Bill Mc |
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26 | Does it take away sins or not? | Lev 16:34 | Bill Mc | 19846 | ||
Dear Sir Pent, Thanks for the admonition. I will go back and read your Forum Improvements #2 and respond to it. I, however, do not consider myself to be a leader here on this forum. I have been often reminded that, due to my lack of adherance to Calvanism or Armenianism principles, due to my ignorance of the original languages, due to my failure to worship at the feet of the revered church fathers, and the omission of ThD after my name, that I am just another sheep. That's fine. The only thing this sheep is trying to do is, hopefully, lead other sheep to the Shepherd, not the perceived 'Shepherd's crook.' We already have plenty of sheep and self-proclaimed shepherds doing that. Our greatest responsibility is to share the truth. Granted, this should be done in love, and I do endeavor to do so. But the heart of true love is concern for the other person's best interest, their soul, not just saying 'everyone's opinions are completely valid.' This is 'valid' in the sense of being the truth, not in the sense of whether they should be expressed or not. Everyone has the privelege here of free expression. And everyone here (including myself), must bear the consequence of having their expression challenged by the truth of God's Word. Thanks for the admonition. I will endeavor to see the forest more clearly. But, at the same time, I am not willing to sacrifice the truth of the one Tree (Vine) to do so. In Christ, Bill Mc |
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27 | Does it take away sins or not? | Lev 16:34 | Bill Mc | 19832 | ||
Sir Pent, one other comment if I may. It is not with a spirit of self-righteousness that I posted my sarcasm. My righteousness is found in Christ and Him alone, not myself nor my ability to keep the Law. It is with a spirit of sadness that I responded with sacrcasm. Despite all the wonderful posts here on this BB stating what the work of Christ has accomplished, some will still teach their own brand of Judaism. That it would be tolerated and encouraged for the sake of 'keeping the peace' shocks me. While I would agree that those of the Jewish faith might come here occasionally seeking answers, they would need to be shown the truth in love. To them I would say that indeed the Messiah has come and they would need to turn from their tutor, the Law, a shadow, to the exact representation of God in Jesus Christ - the reality. But to tell them that they need Christ and are still under the OT Law, as Mr. Butler insists, is Galatianism and needs to be confronted. And it has been, at length. In many prior posts, Bible-believing Christians have shown with scriptural support that Christ alone is our redemption, reconciliation, justification, sanctification, and righteousness. Is this forum about the completed work of Jesus Christ, "It is finished", or is it about a return to Judaism? If we are here to reinstate Judaism then, as I said, I am greatly saddened that Christ's very bride, the church, is turning from the 'good news' to another gospel that is really no gospel at all. In Christ and Him alone, Bill Mc |
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28 | Does it take away sins or not? | Lev 16:34 | Bill Mc | 19829 | ||
Dear Sir Pent, Although I cannot gauge what Steve's true motives are, I can state what his conclusions are from his own posts. You state that you believe that he is seeking to get others to resolve an apparent contradiction between the OT and the NT. He states what his goal is in a related post: "Second, we are not free from the OT Law, just its punishment ... as already pointed out in other post." And he has stated in another recent post: "While some people want to categorize them..." (Here he is refering to the distinctions between the moral law, the ceremonial law, and the civil law embodied in the words 'the Law') "the Bible does not." Therefore, I feel that he is seeking to reinstate the Law as a means of justification and sanctification. The majority of the New Testament writings were written to demonstrate the neither Jew nor Gentile can be justified or sanctified by keeping the Law. We are justified and sanctified by Christ alone. To advance the view that "we are not free from the OT Law", when so much of the NT refutes this, is error. If one is going to be under the Law, one must be under ALL of it - moral, ceremonial, and civil. The Law is not an 'a la carte' where you can pick and choose what parts you want to keep. This is the point that I was making with my sarcasm. As long as Steve purports that we are all under OT law, I will not rescind my comments. I'm sorry, brother, that we cannot agree on this issue. But to try to put those under grace back under the Law from which Christ has set us free demonstrates that one does not truly understand the purpose of the Law or what Christ has done. In Christ, Bill Mc |
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29 | Only seal and horse in same verse Rev6:5 | Bible general Archive 1 | Bill Mc | 19514 | ||
Hi Guys, I received this the other day and thought that you might find it interesting (or at least amusing). I've edited it slightly to make it appropriate for this BB: ----------- The date of the attack on America: 9/11 - 9 plus 1 plus 1 equals 11. September 11th is the 254th day of the year: 2 plus 5 plus 4 equals 11. After September 11th there are 111 days left to the end of the year. 119 is the area code to Iraq/Iran. 1 plus 1 plus 9 equals 11. Twin Towers - standing side by side, looks like the number 11. The first plane to hit the towers was Flight 11. I have more....... State of New York - The 11th State added to the Union New York City - 11 Letters Afghanistan - 11 Letters The Pentagon - 11 Letters Ramzi Yousef - 11 Letters (convicted of orchestrating the attack on the WTC in 1993) Flight 11 - 92 on board - 9 plus 2 equals 11 Flight 77 - 65 on board - 6 plus 5 equals 11 (Dave's response) Oh my! How worried should I be? There are 11 letters in the name "David Pawson!" I'm going into hiding NOW. See you in a few weeks. Wait a sec ... just realized "YOU CAN'T HIDE" also has 11 letters! What am I gonna do? Help me!!! The terrorists are after me! ME! I can't believe it! There must be someplace on the planet Earth I could hide! But no .... "PLANET EARTH" has 11 letters, too! Maybe Nostradamus can help me. But dare I trust him? There are 11 letters in "NOSTRADAMUS." I know, the Red Cross can help. No they can't... 11 letters in "THE RED CROSS," can't trust them. I would rely on self defense, but "SELF DEFENSE" has 11 letters in it, too! Can someone help? Anyone? If so, send me email. No, don't... "SEND ME EMAIL" has 11 letters.... Will this never end? I'm going insane! "GOING INSANE???" Eleven letters!! Nooooooooooo!!!!!! I guess I'll die alone, even though "I'LL DIE ALONE" has 11 letters..... Oh no, I just realized that America is doomed! Our Independence Day is July 4th ... 7/4 ... 7 plus 4 equals 11! Dave ----------- Pretty good, huh? In the Christ (Oh no! This has 11 letters, too), Bill Mc |
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30 | Joe, who is ya, man? | James 2:10 | Bill Mc | 19400 | ||
Joe, excellent post. Mere intellectual assent can save no one. These are great verses that you'd listed here. I especially like this, 'Or is it a complete and total dependence on Christ which will result in God-honoring works and a changed life?' I think that you have hit the nail on the head here. You've got it in the right order, too. Total dependence on Christ RESULTS in works and change. The type of 'born-again' that we see in the scripture is a complete life-altering experience. Obedience does matter. Works do matter. Believe and trust in Christ is more than an acknoledgement of the facts concerning Jesus. It is a radical change in your whole belief system. I wanted to share another passage that came to mind that, I believe, highlights the correct order. The disciples, impressed with Jesus' works, came to Him to see how they could also DO the works of God. Notice who's works Jesus did. Yes, He was and is God, but He was doing His Father's works. So they ask, "What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?" Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." -John 6:28,29. Some people use this to support easy-believism or 'dead' faith but I don't think it was recorded for that purpose. I think that Jesus was again stressing the abiding factor. Look at the Source. Abiding in Christ is not inactive. If we as a branch are not 'bearing' displaying any fruit, then we need to look to see if we are indeed grafted into the Vine. If we practice sin, we need to check to see if we really understand the FULL gospel message. Practicing sin is a concerted, willful, thoughtful effort to accomplish it. I play the piano and I can tell you, practice takes effort. When I am 'practicing', it involves the efforts of my mind, my will, my emotions and, obviously, my body to get the musical piece 'right'. I think that this is what James is saying. If you are just looking for ways to sin (that grace may abound) and you are bent towards it, then you need to question your salvation. If your whole being is geared to 'practicing' sin, then your faith, by biblical standards, is in vain. Thanks for your comments, brother, Bill Mc |
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31 | Joe, who is ya, man? | James 2:10 | Bill Mc | 19375 | ||
Part 2 - Paul dealt with a similar question in Rom 6:1 - 'If grace always triumphs over sin, then should we sin to make grace even more triumphant?' 'No way, don't you know that you are no longer a sinner (my paraphrase)? You're 'old man' that was the source of sin in you, was crucified and buried with Christ. He is gone.' Why should I live a righteous life? For me there are two main reasons: 1) Your new desire and 2) love. There are many more, but I believe that these are two strongest. 1) Your desire: Because God has put His Holy Spirit in you and it is joined with your new spirit, at the deepest level, you don't want to sin. Paul says in Rom 7:15- 'I am not practicing what I WOULD LIKE TO DO, but I am doing the very thing I hate...For the good that I WANT, I do not do...if I am doing the very thing I DO NOT WANT, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin (his flesh vs. 18) which dwells in me...I find then the principle that evil (the flesh, NOT the old nature) is present in ME (the new Paul, not Saul), THE ONE WHO WANTS TO DO GOOD. For I JOYFULLY concur with the law of God IN THE INNER MAN (the new creation, the new self) but I see a different law (where? in his spirit?) in the members of my body, waging war against (his spirit? no.) my mind (part of his soul) and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in (again, where?) my members...So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind (part of the soul) an serving the law of God (where is this? in his heart), but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin." Paul says that his want to has been changed. Did you notice that his heart is in the right place? Nowhere did he say that he wanted to sin. He knows that he is a new creation. Does he struggle with his flesh? Yes. But, even when he sins, he IS NOT the old man. I believe that when God comes in and you discover who He is and who you are in Him, He changes your 'want to.' You will still fail at times, but even when you do, you will know that 'I am no longer the one doing it (sinning), but sin's power in my flesh in my body. Now, the body is NOT inherently evil. But the power of sin does use it as a vehicle to commit sin. Our bodies are still unredeemed. But I feel that God changes your desires. 2. Love. If you truly love God and understand His love for you, you will desire to 'live out' the righteousness that God has placed within. God does not primarily want your obedience. He primarily wants your love in a personal relationship with Him. He knows that true obedience can only come from a heart that is loved and loves in return. Say there exists a kingdom where the king falls in love with a common prostitute. The punishment for prostitution in that kingdom is death. But because the king loves the prostitute, he establishes a decree that prostitution is no longer punishable by death. He does not want to lose her. For all practical purposes, she is forgiven. Will she then give up prostitution? Maybe, maybe not. But what if the king tells her that not only is she forgiven, but he loves her and wants her to come to the palace to be his queen. Will she then give up prostitution? There is no guarantee, but it is likely. She is probably selling herself to get the love and acceptance she longs for. But now she is in a whole new relationship with someone who not only spared her life, but loves her, wants to marry her and live with her forever. Now, I'm a man, but I still have the need for unconditional love and acceptance. And God is the ONLY one who has ever given that to me. I love Him, not because it is one of the 10 commandments and I have to, but because I am coming to realize just how much He loves me. He would rather crucify His own Son than see me burn in hell. Jesus would rather die on a cross than live without me. I am humbled and amazed that He would do this for me. Not only has he forgiven my sins, but He loves me and has made me part of His bride. I will live with him happily ever after! What more motivation does anyone need? A couple more less significant reasons to live a holy life: 3. An unholy life is a poor witness. 4. We will give an account for deeds done in our bodies. 5. Our souls and bodies can still become slaves to the power of sin in our flesh and suffer sins consequences. 6. Our sin frequently hurts others. 7. Sin can still lead to physical death. These are just a few. My biggest motivation for not sinning and leading a holy life is embodied in my relationship to God. Yes, good works honor God. But non-Christians also do good works and false Christians can do good-looking fleshly works that count for nothing. You can't always tell who is who and which is which. It is our hearts that God wants. He has captured mine forever. Bill Mc |
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32 | Joe, who is ya, man? | James 2:10 | Bill Mc | 19374 | ||
Joe, This is indeed a good question. In fact, I don't even know if I have an answer that you will find satisfactory. But I'll share what I think: Is this new nature inherently righteous or is it just oriented toward righteousness? The problem with using the term 'oriented toward righteousness' is that it is a nebulous term. What exactly does 'oriented toward righteousness' mean? And, if it is 'oriented toward righteousness' how much? How do you gauge that? At what point is it no longer oriented but righteous? As I see it, from God's viewpoint, nothing is almost righteous, nearly righteous, or oriented toward righteousness. God's moral righteousness is due to His character. That is why He cannot do something that is unrighteous. So I would have a problem using that term. Now the old nature was dead to God. It was separated from Him. Here again I don't think that it was just 'oriented toward evil.' I believe that it was independant of God and therefore evil. The idea that it was only oriented, leaning toward evil is almost humanistic in that humanism doesn't think that there is anything inherently wrong with man. It purports that man is innocent when born and is only influenced negatively or positively by the environment. But the Bible makes it clear the we are born 'dead in trespasses and sins.' This means that we are born separated from God at birth. Eph 2:5 - 'Even when we were dead in our transgressions...' Col 2:13 - 'When you where dead in your transgressions...' 1 Cor 15:22 - 'For as in Adam all die...' Our spirits are separated from God. And anything that is apart from God (who is total righteousness) is going to be what we would consider evil. So, this really only leaves 3 other possibilities: 1. The new spirit or nature is neutrally aligned. Again, I have a problem justifying this understanding. I guess the closest that I could come to defining this is that it would be 'innocent', knowing neither right or wrong. I do believe that this was the condition of Adam's pre-fallen spirit. He was not moral in the sense that he did not have a knowledge of right and wrong before the fall. But is our new nature created that way? I don't think so. If it was, we would have the capability of sinning and dying to God all over again like Adam did. And if this happened, then it would seem that Christ's work was all for naught. Why do everything thing He did if we would, as new creations, just make the wrong choice like Adam did? The outcome of this scenario is that if our new spirit were innocent and then, because of temptation, we sinned and it died to God, what hope would we have? Would God have to then keep recreating our spirit every time we sinned? I don't see any Biblical precedence for this. But what scripture does seem to support is that... 3. Our new spirit is created in righteousness and holiness - Eph 4:24. But let me add this: This new spirit, new nature, new identity is not created separate from Christ. So I don't think that we can pick it apart from Christ's spirit in us and examine it to see if it has it's own righteousness or not. It is indeed one spirit with Christ's Spirit - 1 Cor 6:17, and cannot be separated from Him. It is joined to Christ but it is also our identity, so much so that the Bible describes it as a new man, a new self. It is this new spirit created in righteousness that I think could be the 'gift of righteousness' that we receive from God. It is, I believe, inherently 'born of God's Spirit.' Jesus said that flesh gives birth to flesh, and Spirit gives birth to spirit - John 3:6. This new spirit is born of God - John1:13. 'For you have been born again not of seed which is perishable but imperishable...' - 1 Pet 1:23. 1 John 5:4 - 'For whatever is born of God...' Just as a child is born inherently having the DNA and traits of his parents, how could God's new born children not be created righteous if He is indeed the Father? Remember, Adam was not born - he was created. And Genesis never implies that Adam's spirit was born or reborn. Granted, his spirit was created and our spirit is re-created, but I don't believe the Bible ever speaks of Adam as being 'born of God' like we are. So, if we are truly born-again of God, how could we be, at the spirit level, anything less than His righteousness, as righteous as He is? I'm not talking about our performance here. I am speaking of our identities, the core of who we are, saints. It is a fact that whatever has happened, it is so wonderful that the NT calls it new birth, a new creation. And as anyone knows, it is your birth, not your actions that determine who you are. I am a McCracken whether I act like the rest of my family or not. Birth, not performance, determines identity. Joe, I will attempt to answer the motivation question in Part 2. A new creation, Bill Mc |
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33 | Joe, I agree with you here. | James 2:10 | Bill Mc | 19369 | ||
Joe, Here's my understanding: "What is the ultimate reason for God saving us?...is there " a "bigger picture"?" -- Joe, there is indeed a bigger picture and you have stated it better than I could right here: "I hold that God's highest passion is to glorify Himself, since he is the epitome of all that is holy and just and morally upright...Therefore, I am not the center of God's creation; He is." -- Joe, I agree 120 percent. Especially with the fact that I am not the center of God's creation, He is (although we both know that Christ was not 'created' like man was). "As far as works go, I hold that good works ALWAYS accompany the transforming presence of Christ in those who have true faith." --Joe, some people do not live long enough after conversion to manifest any good works. Granted, this is rare, but it is none the less true. So to say that "good works ALWAYS accompany the transforming presence of Christ" is probably a little stricter than what I would say. I would phrase it this way: Given time, the transforming presence of Christ will manifest itself through good works. We are created for good works and I agree with that whole-heartedly. But, in my opinion, to say that good works ACCOMPANY the presence of Christ implies that the presence of Christ and good works are separate. I.e. good works and Christ presence are distinct from each other. I believe that Christ's presence is the SOURCE of the good works. As you know from my other posts, I think that any good works that we do apart from Him being our source are works of the flesh and will be burnt up. I believe that God will only bless what He initiates and performs through us. Christ did many good works but He did them through the power of the Spirit and because the Father told Him to. So, technically, good works did not ACCOMPANY Christ. He performed them as He abided in His Father. I hope you don't think that I'm nit-picking. But I do feel the distinction is important. As Christ abided in the Father, we are called to abide in Christ. "God-honoring traits and actions are the work of God..." --Notice what you say here, Joe, they are the WORK OF GOD manifested "... in the lives of every believer to demonstrate that we truly are his." --Agreed. "Works are important, and God will require them" --Once again, Joe, I have a problem with the words 'God will require them.' Every good and righteous trait and deed that we as Christians manifest is merely a reflection of what God has given and done in us. God requires holiness. Thru Christ He makes us holy. God requires perfection. Thru Christ, He makes us perfect. God requires 100 percent obedience. Thru Christ, God makes us obedient, etc. This is the nature of grace. What God required, fulfillment of the Law, He Himself fulfilled in Jesus Christ. What God requires of us, He Himself supplies. He says, "Love Me above all else." Then John says, "We love Him because He first loved us." God says, "Forgive men." Paul writes, "Forgive others as Christ has forgiven you." He is the source. We respond to Him, not He to us. "That is why, as a believer, I delight in the moral commandments of God found in the Law." --Joe, this is not one-upmanship, but I delight in Christ. I will boast in what He has done not the Law. Christ alone is my glory. Christ's 'morality' transcends even the Law. He demonstrated this with the Sermon on the Mount. How righteous do we have to be? As righteous as the Law? No. As righteous as the Father in heaven. And that kind of righteousness only comes as a gift. "Of course, we have and always will fall short of those requirements." --In our actions while on earth, yes. That is why God gave us His righteousness. We could never accomplish His righteousness on our own. "Gospel is the proclamation of God's grace and mercy extended to us who fall short of fulfilling God's demand of absolute holy conduct, through the work of Christ Jesus, who did indeed fulfill the Law in his sinless life on earth." --Agreed. And the mystery of this wonderful Gospel, Joe, is that through the Holy Spirit, this Jesus Christ who is the epidomy of God's glory is united with God's creation, man. Man now 'measures up' because of the union we have with Christ. We died to the Law so that we could be married to Christ. The marriage supper hasn't happened yet but we are already in union with Him, are we not? We are baptized by the Holy Spirit into Christ and He is in us. No longer is God separate from His creation. We can manifest God to others around us through good works because this God that they long to see actually dwells within. What a wonderful salvation! In Christ, Bill Mc |
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34 | Joe, who is ya, man? | James 2:10 | Bill Mc | 19353 | ||
Joe, How could they not know? Because they had probably not been taught. Why do you think that the NT was written? It was to teach us of the wonderful mystery of the gospel, that 'Christ in you' is not just for the Jew, but also for the Gentile. You see a similar pattern in 2 Cor 5. In verse 18,19 Paul says that God has reconciled the whole world to Himself. Then He says that, in light of the fact that God has done this, BE (acknowledge, accept it, bank on it) reconciled - Vs. 20. If we view this without any discernment, we would say, "Why does Paul tell them to be reconciled if God has already done it? If it is something that God has done and it is an accomplished fact, then why would Paul tell THEM to do it?" Faith is putting your trust in what God has done. The Bible says that Christ was slain before the foundation of the world. But we know as a historical fact that it happened 2000 years ago. Is there a contradiction? No. It is a spiritual truth that we accept by faith. I think that Paul is telling this crowd something similar. God has created a 'new self' for you, so acknowledge it, put it on, utilize it. Is this understanding really that far fetched, Joe? Bill Mc |
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35 | Joe, who is ya, man? | James 2:10 | Bill Mc | 19345 | ||
Hey Joe, before you explain all my 'pet' verses to me, you might want to read my 2 posts further down concerning Salvation. The reason being that this is the 'lens' that I view through as opposed to the 'Reformed' lens that you view through. We all draw certain conclusions from the scriptures that we've studied (we can't help it) and have a certain belief system. So, if you read through mine, you'll see in a nutshell what I believe about salvation, sanctification, justification, etc. That way you can understand my understanding of some of these big words we throw around. Thanks, Bill Mc |
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36 | Joe, who is ya, man? | James 2:10 | Bill Mc | 19338 | ||
Joe, Because they didn't know they had a new self. They wore 'the Law' as their righteous garments. Paul says that we have been clothed with Christ. This is precisely the revelation that Paul is trying to make - you are a new creature inside, you don't wear the same old clothing. Put on the new. If you keep on sinning, your body and soul will become a slave to it. I'm a Christian but if I go get drunk ever night, I'll start serving alcohol with my body and soul. So put off the deeds of the flesh and sinful actions because that is not who you are anymore. Bill Mc |
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37 | Moral, Ceremonial, and Civil law | James 2:10 | Bill Mc | 19337 | ||
Salvation - Part 2 This is why Paul says that you have died to sin and to present your bodies to God. That old sin nature is gone and you are no longer a slave to it. Instead you are a slave to the righteousness of God within. This is why I say that at the deepest level, I am no longer a sinner. I am a saint. Do I still sin? Yes, my soul and body does. Is my spirit always righteous before God? Yes, it is. This is precisely why Paul addresses born-again believers as saints. We are not who we were. But even Paul admitted that when he sinned, it was not him - Rom 7:17,20. It was NOT him, folks! It was the power of sin that dwelled in his flesh where he says nothing good dwells - Rom 7:18. He said that he agreed with the law of God in the inner man - Rom 7:21,22. Even he understood that, under the New Covenant, God has placed His laws inside us. But he also new that the power of sin still resided in his flesh, not in his spirit or his soul - Rom 7:23. And he concludes that only Christ within Him can set him free - Rom 7:24,25. The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus (that now dwells in us) has set us free from the power of sin and spiritual death. Is this not true? Don't agree with my view? That's Ok. You have to make your own decision. But, hopefully, you understand where I am coming from. A new creation, Bill Mc |
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38 | Moral, Ceremonial, and Civil law | James 2:10 | Bill Mc | 19336 | ||
Salvation: if someone on this forum wants to debate or challenge my views on these issues, then please allow me to state what my definition and understanding is of salvation. Obviously this is my view and I will support it with scripture. But often I find that I am being misunderstood because my definition is not the same as another believer's. That's alright, we are all learning and growing, but it would help if you knew where I was coming from. I am not trying to rewrite the Bible here, I am simply trying to define my beliefs so fellow forum members who may not agree with my view, can at least understand it. The word 'salvation' means 'to be delivered.' Therefore it means that something is taken from one characteristic and moved or changed to another characteristic. Here is what I believe about salvation: 1. At new birth (conversion, general salvation experience, accepting Christ, being born-again, regeneration, asking Christ in your heart, etc.) God removes your 'old self'. This old self is also known as the old man, old sin nature, 'in Adam' spirit, Paul's old 'I no longer live' self. This is NOT the flesh. This is the core of identity. This is the dead- to-God (separated from Him), unregenerate spirit that you inherited from Adam. On our timeline, God does this at new birth. I believe that this is where God separates spirit and soul - Heb 4:12. From God's point of view (outside time) it was crucified with Christ and buried (because it is dead) with Him 2000 years ago - Rom 6:3-8. 2. God then creates in us a brand new spirit, a new creation, a new self that is alive to Him - 2 Cor 5:17. This new spirit is created completely righteous and holy - Eph 4:24. Because your old sinful spirit is gone, you are saved (delivered from the penalty of sin, spiritual death) by a new alive spirit inside. This is why I keep saying the true salvation is being delivered from the wages of sin, death (separation from God) by the free gift of God, eternal life in your spirit - Rom 6:23. This new spirit is eternal because it is joined to Christ's Spirit. It cannot sin. 3. This new spirit is joined to Christ's Spirit (aka the Holy Spirit) - Rom 8:9 and indwells the soul of the believer. This new spirit is your identity, who you really are, your deepest essence and it is forever united with Christ. Therefore, at the core of your being you are spiritually born-again from God, joined to Him and you (the old self) no longer lives but you have a new self. The Holy Spirit does all of this. We do none of it. Because it is a spiritual truth, we cannot reason out the mechanics of it. We can only accept it by faith. 4. The believer now is a new creation in Christ but he (or she) still has the same unregenerate soul (mind, will, and emotions), the source of behavior, and the same unregenerate physical body wherein 'flesh' dwells. But there is a comeplete, dynamic change is the identity. So much so that believers in the NT were often given name changes. We are no longer who we were. Unfortunately though, we have the same old soul and body. 5. As we live and have our minds (part of the soul) renewed by the Spirit and God's Word, the righteousness and life of the spirit within 'works it's way out' to change our behavior. It is an inward out sanctification process. It is not from the outside in. "Out of your inner-most being..." Jesus said. This, I believe, is the soul's sanctification process. It is the means by which the man of God is being renewed day by day so that his behavior is brought in-line with his new identity. The saving of the soul (deliverence from the power of sin) is gradual but it is assured because it has a new spirit (with God's Spirit as the seal and guarantee) within as it's power source. But if at any time the physical life is cut short by death (from our view), your righteous spirit standing before God allows you to go immediately into His presence without further salvation of the soul and body. But the soul part of us can, obviously, still sin depending on where we draw our sufficiency out of. 6. The believer's body is not saved (delivered from the presence of sin) until the rapture or the resurrection. In this body, dwells what Paul calls the 'flesh'. This flesh is not the true self. It is old thoughts, patterns, and habits stored in our physical brain that tempts us to get our needs met apart from God. God does not give you a new brain when you get saved. He also does not wipe out your intellect, will and emotions. But He does intend for you to choose to live your life out of the Spirit (walk after the indwelling Spirit) instead of the 'flesh.' Those that walk (live) out of their flesh cannot please God. Only by walking in the Spirit can our souls be renewed and Christ's life within be displayed through our bodies. So who are you going to obey, the Spirit of God within you or your flesh? See Part 2 |
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39 | Moral, Ceremonial, and Civil law | James 2:10 | Bill Mc | 19299 | ||
Dear Risen, Thanks for the encouragement, brother! I will indeed stand firm. I wore that old yoke of slavery for 30 years and it never sanctified me or satisfied my need for life. But, for some, it is all they know so they become comfortable with the burden. It is for freedom that Christ set us free. Unfortunately, many Christians think that we are advocating sin and lawlessness. The only tree that some of them eat from is the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Thanks be to God that He has provided a Tree of Life! Risen, too! Bill Mc |
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40 | Why keep the Moral Law? | James 2:10 | Bill Mc | 19275 | ||
Dear Joe, Yes, brother, I do indeed see who your faith is in. In Christ, Bill Mc |
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