Results 141 - 160 of 166
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Results from: Notes Author: Just Read Mark Ordered by Verse |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
141 | Beware "Another" | 2 Cor 11:4 | Just Read Mark | 156416 | ||
Hi Victor. I agree with the concern you raised about anti-catholocism. You will find some diversity in the forum (feel free to look though my posts and questions, for example). Why do I check out the forum from time to time, over several years now: because this group loves the Bible. I travel sometimes, and just want to chat about what Im reading with others that love the Bible. I wouldnt bail from the forum, though I would be more tactful... JRM |
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142 | Beware "Another" | 2 Cor 11:4 | Just Read Mark | 156421 | ||
Thanks, Mark. I feel your response is very clear, and generous. |
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143 | Test yourselves! Examine yourselves! | 2 Cor 13:5 | Just Read Mark | 84349 | ||
Discipleship, not Orthodoxy. Looking though the list of hypothetical statements, I wonder what the core issue is for the struggling believer. There certainly are some doubts there -- but they are raised at the experiencial level, not about beliefs directly. I think that responding with a list of theological "corrections" could miss the point. Religious people "don't like for anything to challange their beliefs, even if what they believe is ridiculous." -- Hey: I'm a Christian, and I often find the attitudes of Christians embarassing -- and perhaps not embodying the mind of Christ. Some of the questions are more about people than God. "Starting to believe that all of what we believe is just plain crazy." -- It can be fruitless to argue from theology, if the person is questioning that authority. Being part of a faith community, where the gospel is vital and lived, is more convincing. " . . . how can [God] expect us to understand or rejoice at things so foreign to us. Why involve us . . . The Christian life, seems to be marred by "living to die". .. -- Again, I think this needs to be responded to in the "engaged with living" example of Christians. If the community is stiffling and inward looking (as Christians can be), it will fuel this kind of cynicism. If, however, people are genuinely freed by the gospel -- free to love despite societal expectations -- then these questions may desolve. "I dont even know if I'm really saved anymore." -- Is this a theological question of "correct belief" --- or a question of practice? By practice I mean dry prayer life, lack of anwered prayer, alienation from community, withdrawal from servanthood, etc. Often our intellectual questions relate to things much deeper in our hearts. To pound away about orthodoxy, and to miss the real motivating issues, can actually lead to cynicism rather than faith. Sometimes people need discipleship, accountability, and a prayer partner who can stand the ambiguity and questions. "I have felt love for him [God] at various times, but mostly, I felt he hated me, so at times, I have hated him, because I was totally confused." ---See, this is more about emotion than theory. "I do not love God for his majesty. I dont know why or how to. I guess because I originally came to him because I needed help. I didn't get it . . . In all that time, I have seen very little of God. Sometimes, I'm not even sure that he exist. " --- Here, perhaps, is a root issue. The person is expressing disappointment in God -- in unanswered prayer. Combine a sense of God's powerlessness with a sense that Christian community is not functioning well... and there is a powerful ground for doubt. This person needs a true friend to work through this struggle, and the root resentments. When someone has a deep cry of their heart -- and God doesn't appear to be answering -- it is a time for the Christians around to support - indeed carry -- that person through their grief. Peace. (P.S. -- I don't understand why Radioman2's post seems to be listed at different points, under different titles -- so maybe I am missing part of the context here. I hope this post is helpful.) |
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144 | Bear each others load, or our own? | Gal 6:5 | Just Read Mark | 147522 | ||
Thanks, Ed. That is very helpful. I have printed out the response, to follow the references better. I particularly like this notion of the "soldier's pack" as distinct fromt the oppressive burden. Both mutual service and individual responsibility are important. Also, the link to "come all who are heavy laden" is meaningful. JRM |
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145 | Creative Misquotation | Eph 4:8 | Just Read Mark | 168132 | ||
Thanks, Brad. The very last verse of the Psalm does mention God giving gifts: "he gives power and strength to his people." (Psalm 68:38) I'm not sure that's enough to define the "essence of the Psalm" as "that a military victor has the right to give gifts to those identified with him." The Psalm focuses more on the fate of the enemies, and the celebration of the Victor's people. Interesting, though, to think that Paul is pulling verse 38 into his reading of verse 18. That is helpful. Oh: I also like the comment on taking "captivity itself a captive" NRSV. This is so rich. Thanks be to God. JRM |
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146 | 2 wifes for a man, 2 husbands for a wife | Eph 5:31 | Just Read Mark | 83886 | ||
Polygamy. Yes: we want to affirm one husband with one wife. But the Bible is a gritty and complex book -- and marriage ethics are not so clear. Of course, Solomon's many (hundreds of) wives were part of his falling away. But was it because of the number of wives, or because they came from different religions --- so he compromised? David had multiple wives --- Nathan makes it clear that his indiscretion with a married woman was wrong, but there is no comment about wives in general. He was a man after God's own heart. What about Jacob? No examples of women having multiple husbands... sorry about the inequality. Am I arguing for polygamy: certainly not. The New Testament is very clear on the subject. But God works, and reveals himself, amid the diverse cultures of this world - including relationship practices. |
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147 | 2 wifes for a man, 2 husbands for a wife | Eph 5:31 | Just Read Mark | 83945 | ||
Adultery and polygamy. Hi there. It seems to me that sexual ethics were revealed and refined over time. The meaning of "adultery" as described in Exodus 20:14 seems to be about not violating marriage agreements -- ie. don't sleep with another person's spouse. It doesn't seem to say anything against being faithful to multiple wives. In nomadic or war-torn cultures --which the Israelites often were --- polygamy enables more children to be born despite a low population of men. Polygamy can be a way to ensure that women are cared for, knit into the fabric of society. Again, I am not condoning polygamy. I am just saying the Bible is complicated, and we shouldn't simplify. The New Testament is very clear on how we should proceed (one woman, one man). Peace. |
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148 | Can a woman speak in church? | 1 Tim 2:15 | Just Read Mark | 83542 | ||
Language and Community Language constantly changes, as we invent ways to express ourselves. We should not pine for a universal code -- for language needs to shift to meet the needs of our changing world. Dictionaries are a recent phenomenon -- several hundred years. Language is formed and interpreted in community. As new expressions are formed, they are shared by a community that understands their meaning. Sometimes these expressions become common usage. This points to the importance of reading scripture as a community --- for it was written long ago, and includes metaphors and forms not common in our era. Most of the epistles, for example, are addressed to churches: the letters were read aloud, shared communally, and interpreted together in light of the shared gospel. Reading the scriptures apart from the community of faith --- in an individualistic inquiry --- can lead to some bizarre conclusions. An interesting thing about this forum is that it brings together diverse members of the community of Christ: people from different backgrounds struggling together to interpret the text. (I realize this note is a late addition to this thread... but I've been thinking about these things a lot.) |
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149 | "That's just your interpretation."(?) | 2 Tim 2:15 | Just Read Mark | 117052 | ||
What Context? Hi Kalos, Hank, BradK.... I agree, for the most part, with your post. Certainly, we need to look at the context of each passage to understand its sense. This means understanding how it fits in the entire book --- but also how it fits in relation to other books of the Bible. There is, however, another layer of context that is more difficult to handle. This is the historical period: a sense of the culture in which the book is written. Who was the original audience? We need to understand these things to get at the original sense of the words (the objective sense you strive for) ---- the problem is, there are so many questions around these issues. When were the gospels written? What were the various audiences for the gospels? When was Revelation written? In view of the immense genre of apocalyptic writing at the time, how are we to understand the book of Revelation? How did THEY understand it? How did John understand it? If you enter into the research on these matters, they do not resolve themselves readily. At least, not for me! So, while I encourage your sense of reading with context and historicity in mind ---- your take on it is too "positivistic." We need to be aware of the gaps in our knowledge, and admit t them. I wonder why there aren't more evangelicals publishing historical work about scripture? It seems they've left the field to the likes of the Jesus Seminar. But, if we value the approach you outlined in your post, we should NOT give up that terrain. I read some NT Wright earlier this year, and found that I learned SO MUCH from it that I had never learned from other sources. Mostly about the Jewish history between the testaments, and what that might mean for their expectations of redemption. JRM |
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150 | 30 minute fun bible study for couples | 2 Tim 2:15 | Just Read Mark | 168206 | ||
Doug... I, too, am not sure what you think of as "fun." This might be totally weird as a structured Bible study, but I bring it up, because it sparked a very interesting discussion with some teenagers I work with. There's been some discussion on this forum about 1 Corinthians chapter 7... it's a whole chapter on whether to remain single or get married. It is actually a great discussion starter. A teenager was griping about being dumped by his girlfriend, and I told him it was just as well, because Paul emphasizes the good in singleness. It lead to a great conversation, as different teens piped in with their stories and experiences. The verses talk about sexuality, faithfulness, holiness. About the burdens of responsibility that can prevent us from being effective for the Kingdom. About the goal of being active for the mission of the church, and evaluating relationships in terms of that goal. I can think of MANY fascinating questions, that would bring scripture and life together. You'd get to know each other, and the Word, much better. This text really makes people think, whether married or single. May be totally inappropriate for your context, but it was good for us. JRM |
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151 | Is the Bible itself evil? | 2 Tim 3:16 | Just Read Mark | 135074 | ||
Merlin, Gandalf..... yes, I did a little melding of tales there. Another interesting story to read is CS Lewis' autobiography -- Surprised by Joy. He, too, longed for a mythical world that was foreign to his modern era. He was interested in Norse legends and ancient mythologies, but only believed in a "scientific" description as real. God pursued him, and won his searching mind. You sound resigned when you say "I guess I don't know how to." God, however, is not resigned, but full of surprises. JRM |
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152 | Slavery | Titus 2:9 | Just Read Mark | 156411 | ||
Regarding the Underground Railroad. I just find it illuminating to see how people from other times have interpreted the same words we study today. It sometimes helps us to get beyond our own assumptions. Participants in the underground Railroad were certainly aware of Bible texts, and used the Exodus extensively. While many could not read, others could, and the messages were shared orally. I am not supporting slavery. As for Paul, I dont think he supported slavery as ideal. Yet he seems to think people could be faithful WITHIN it anyway, and that opposing it was not what the 1st century demanded of Christians. I just wonder how slaves have found these words, through the centures, to reflect their freedom in Christ. |
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153 | Slavery | Titus 2:9 | Just Read Mark | 156413 | ||
3 thoughts on slavery. Hi Mark. Well, first off, it conflicts with my comfort zone ; ) I will try to flesh out some of the thoughts in my head. I would be interested in YOUR understanding of how slavery is treated in the NT. Perpective 1. This passage tells slaves to obey their master beyond the letter of the law. This whole book emphasizes orderly behaviour for all people, and is applied to slave as well. Where some would see resisting injustice as the kind of Good Work we are called to perform, freedom for the slaves is not suggested here. So then, this is one side of it... accepting slavery as uncomfortable but not immoral. The higher importance is placed on living an orderly, rather than rebellious, life. Perspective 2) When Paul says that, in Christ, there is neither male nor female, slave nor free (Gal 3:28), he is not saying I cease to be a male... rather he is saying we are equal. Same for slaves. Thus the radical claim is that slave and master are EQUALS before God. Perspective 3) The whole book of Philemon. Here, Paul appeals for the freedom of a Slave. The letter underscores the absurdity of Master and Slave beeing equal in Christ, but so unequal in their relationship to each other. Paul, here, is appealing to a master who is devout. What hope, then, is there for slaves who have pagan (or perhaps capitalist) masters. So theres a start. This isnt so much a contradiction as a complexity worth understanding. JRM |
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154 | Slavery | Titus 2:9 | Just Read Mark | 156425 | ||
Thanks, Mark. What a great ramble! The teaching that we are slaves of Christ is powerful. (I also love it when Paul talks about being in chains for the Gospel, and freedom in Christ, in the same breath. You know that he is experiencing what he preaches. The slavery theme is very similar.) Thank you, also, for putting slavery in some kind of historical perspective. In the Roman world, some slaves were very priveledged (for example, the secretary of a land-owner would be literate and live a relatively comfortable life). Other slaves, however, would be treated very harshly indeed. Paul makes no distinction between various situations... if only we knew whether he meant it as a blanket statement, or if he knew the particulars of the slaves concerned. So here is another angle. Perhaps it is not the slaves place to protest his condition... going along with your statement that, if God has put him in that situation, who is he to object. (I feel a bit awkward writing that, as I am loath to attribute such conditions to God...) But another part of the question is, what should OTHERS do to help the slave. Paul writes Philemon, to encourage him to release his slave. If we are not to stand up for our own freedoms, perhaps we ARE to stand up on others behalf. For most people, controlling a docile worker, will not be moved to gratitude, but to further work load. The passive stand, if taken by everyone, leads to deterioration rather than justice. While you say the Bible downplays issues of social change, the Bible, from beginning to end, is filled with appeals for justice and mercy. This concern for justice - which was very political, when you look at the prophets - provides a powerful backdrop for the question of slavery. |
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155 | Modern application of slavery texts? | Titus 2:9 | Just Read Mark | 156561 | ||
Well, Mark. I really am enjoying your responses. I must read James again, I think! Submission is a spiritual discipline that can deepen the heart in many ways, and bring a sense of peace in many ways. So often, we are in the struggle to achieve... as a self-employed person, I wonder how submission should be working more in my life. Submission to the Word, submission to the needs of others... I ll have to think about this. Sorry, that was a bit off topic (sort of, but not) To sum up: The slaves task is to submit, not struggle for a change in status. The masters task is to be just, which results in good treatment of the worker, and perhaps release from slavery (and today, certainly)... And the bystander is called to love his neighbour (the slave) and contend for his freedom in whatever way possible. I see wisdom in each part of this. I still think it puts the Underground Railroad in a bad light, because in that case, the slaves made the moves themselves. With support of others, certainly, but mostly by themselvesÂÂ. Unions are another interesting case, where the under-dog struggles to bring change for the betterment of his group. goodnight. |
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156 | How has ART fed your faith? | Heb 11:1 | Just Read Mark | 84136 | ||
Hi Searcher. Perhaps that painting by Rembrandt would be a start. There is a book by Henry Nouwen called "The Return of the Prodigal Son" -- it is short, and very good, meditation on that painting. So often, Christians don't participate in shaping culture. But why? Bach continues to draw people to God... we need people doing these things today. I often give lectures about my art-making --- and it is interesting because it opens doors for people. Christians come to my talks, and have their eyes opened about art (and are encouraged in faith as well) and people that love painting come to my talks, and find a fresh, jargon-free entry into the gospel. Indeed, the history of western art is like a great cloud of witnesses, testifying across the centuries. They present their convictions of the unseen (Hebrews 11:1), in a way that draws viewers deeper into God's care. Peace. |
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157 | How has ART fed your faith? | Heb 11:1 | Just Read Mark | 84350 | ||
Thanks for the link. I enjoyed Tim Timmerman a lot. There is also an organization called "Christians in the Visual Arts" -- or CIVA. They are a fabulous network of artist. see www.civa.org If you go to this site -- a group of Canadian Christians -- you will see some of my work, among others. http://www.imago-arts.on.ca/gallery.htm I find these sites encourage me in the practice of art that is grounded in Christ. |
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158 | Who really wrote the bible? for a friend | 1 John 1:1 | Just Read Mark | 111207 | ||
God uses human writers. I think you are right: that God used his followers, inspiring them by the Holy Spirit. Other people have posted texts that show the inspired part. (See also Hebrews 4:12) It might also be useful to look at scriptures that show the obedient writing of the faithful. Here are just a few. I would be interested in other scriptures that shed light on the process of inspired writing. Psalm 45:1-3. The talent and skill of the writer, moved by God. Luke 1:1-4. Shows a "historian" researching the testimonies of witnesses. I Corinthian 7:10,12. Paul writes a letter. He makes a distinction between his own instruction, and an instruction from the mouth of Jesus. (Not to say that both are not inspired... it is just interesting that he makes this distinction.) Revelation 1-3. A revelation given to John, being swept up in a visionary experiece, and being told to write it down faithfully. I think it is a beautiful testimony to God's love for humanity, that so many authors were used -- across so many centuries. The result is an eternal Book that shines light onto every experience. |
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159 | Interpret Jude1:23 - hate sinners shirt | Jude 1:23 | Just Read Mark | 83590 | ||
Hi Radioman. The Zechariah text is particularly good, as it includes - not only the shirt image - but also the bit about the "brand from the fire." That seems to confirm that the text was in Jude's mind. I guess the reason I raised the issue was that there seems to be contempt in the tone. To hate "even the garment" --- the garment polluted by the person --- seems to imply a contempt of the person. Eugene Peterson's paraphrase seems to take a "love the sinner, hate the sin" approach: "Go easy on those who hesitate in the faith. Go after those who take the wrong way. Be tender with sinners, but not soft on sin. The sin itself stinks to high heaven." Is that really what the text is saying, or is that softening the violence out of it somehow? How do we know when the "mercy mixed with fear" approach applies? |
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160 | Interpret Jude1:23 - hate sinners shirt | Jude 1:23 | Just Read Mark | 83608 | ||
Judgement and mercy. ..... Thanks: it is good to see those other renderings of the text. At first, Jude struck me as very harsh indeed -- describing people as "autumn trees without fruit, twice dead, uprooted".... wow: what an image. The language is vivid and brutal. I now see the thread of grace more clearly, particularly the word "mercy" (NRSV) that occurs again and again -- even in the openning address of the book: "May mercy, peace, and love be yours in abundance." Beautiful, how this seemingly formal opening ties into the core themes of the book. So, Radioman2: may mercy, peace, and love be yours in abundance! |
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