Results 141 - 160 of 1459
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Results from: Notes Author: John Reformed Ordered by Verse |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
141 | LEFT BEHIND? | Bible general Archive 1 | John Reformed | 60225 | ||
Part 1 Hi Ed, We must not grow weary old friend. Besides plowing is good exercise. Well for starters you did not answer my question directly, but overlooked the texts in question and went to 9 other verses that I had not asked about. But if you are not inclined to answer, I won't press you. I would like to offer answer to your questions however. You wrote: "Why is so important to you that only the elect be saved, what difference would it make in your theology if all were given an opportunity for salvation but also the right to accept or reject it? That election, predestined, and such simply meant God knew from creation who would reject Christ." Q1. "Why is so important to you that only the elect be saved, " The elect are identified in the Bible as those who are being saved. Matt 24:22 "Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short". Matt 24:24 "For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect". Matt 24:31 "And He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other." |
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142 | LEFT BEHIND? | Bible general Archive 1 | John Reformed | 60226 | ||
Part 2 Q2."what difference would it make in your theology if all were given an opportunity for salvation but also the right to accept or reject it?" Reformed theology teahes that the gospel should be proclaimed to every person. But that only the elect will recieve it. It is referred to as the "general" or "outward" call. Here again , only the elect will repond positively. The reason I believe this to be God's truth is because Jesus taught it. John 6:44 "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day." John 6:65 And He was saying, "For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father." You wrote: "That election, predestined, and such simply meant God knew from creation who would reject Christ." I covered election above. Predestination - This word is properly used only with reference to God's plan or purpose of salvation. The Greek word rendered "predestinate" is found only in these six passages, Acts 4:28; Rom. 8:29, 30; 1 Cor. 2:7; Eph. 1:5, 11; and in all of them it has the same meaning. They teach that the eternal, sovereign, immutable, and unconditional decree or "determinate purpose" of God governs all events.(Easton's Bible Dictionary) Eph 1:11 also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will, The Strongs Concordance defines predestine as. 1) to predetermine, decide beforehand 2) in the NT of God decreeing from eternity 3) to foreordain, appoint beforehand So, as you can see Ed, it is impossible (as long as words mean something) for me to accept election or foreknew or predestine as anything other than the plain reading of the text indicates them to be. You Wrote:" I know you say the “all” means all that are elected but I can not accept that." Let me choose just one verse that you cited containing the word "all" that clearly cannot mean every single member of humanity. 2 Cor. 5:14-15 For the love of Christ controls us, having concluded this, that one died for all, therefore all died; 15and He died for all, so that they who live might no longer live for themselves, but for Him who died and rose again on their behalf. "For the love of Christ controls us,". Paul is speaking to the believers in Corinth, so the object of the verb "controls" is "us". Therefore, taking into consideration the context, "all" refers to all of us. This is simple grammar. It is obvious that the phrase "therefore all died" applies only to those who died in Christ. Can it possibly mean" that therefore all of humanity died"? No. For only believers have died to their old selves and are reborn in Christ. I would be happy to discuss any one of the verses you listed if you wish. "Second question a young boy not “chosen” hears about hell and develops a mortal fear of going there, would a loving God never give him a means to escape? " Fear does not save anyone. As you know, we are saved by faith alone as is taught in ephesians 4:8,9. But your arguement presumes that this boy fears hell and also desires salvation. If He flees to Christ he will be saved for "all (and this means any and every one) who comes to Jesus, He will not cast out. Now if the boy fears hell but continus in sin and rebellion he will be condemned. The difference betwen those who come to Christ and those who will not is God's grace. For Jesus also said that no one can come to Him unless The Father draws them. You may say that the Father draws everyone, but that is not true, for all that He draws He sends to His Son and all that He sends are saved and raised up on the last day! See John 6. The doctrine of election when ffirst tasted is a bitter pill for many. However, as I myself have found, the more I wrestle with it and learn to bow before God's truth the sweeter it becomes. It does not matter one iota whether I like or dislike, agree or disagree, understand or remain puzzled about any jot or tittle in God's word. But I must believe it! John |
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143 | LEFT BEHIND? | Bible general Archive 1 | John Reformed | 60241 | ||
Ed, "Where we disagree, is that I believe a person can reject that truth. I also believe God gives each and everyone that glimpse into to spiritual reality at least once in each person’s life." That is a very nice sentiment. However you must back it up with scripture or it is merely human sentimentality. "In your last comment you used the verse that said the potter can do what he wants with the pot. Your right that speaks directly to the sovereignty of God, it is not talking about salvation, it is talking about such things as talents and handicaps. God give talents and allows handicaps as he see fit. This passage has nothing to do with salvation." Rom 9:21 Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use? Rom 9:22 What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction? Rom 9:23 And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory, Rom 9:24 even us, whom He also called, not from among Jews only, but also from among Gentiles. Sounds like salvation to me. How do you see handicaps and talents in this passage? John |
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144 | LEFT BEHIND? | Bible general Archive 1 | John Reformed | 60243 | ||
Dear Ed You said: I believe it happens thus Spiritual awareness Belief or rejection Salvation for those that believe, damnation for those that don't believe. Adoption into the family you become one of the elect. OK, so spiritual awareness, according to your theology, comes to everyone. That would mean that a natural man, at least for a time, can appraise spiritual things. He now can understand the gospel message. Can you explain to me what Paul meant when he said: "But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised." (1 Cor 2:14) Ed, please give me scripture that says we are all given at least a moment of spiritual enlightenment. John John |
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145 | LEFT BEHIND? | Bible general Archive 1 | John Reformed | 60245 | ||
Hi Ray, what is the thread number? John |
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146 | LEFT BEHIND? | Bible general Archive 1 | John Reformed | 60253 | ||
Dear Tim, you said "These all indicate that repentance takes place prior to regeneration" I don't agree (what a surprise!). I believe that for at least 2 reasons they must accompany regeneration rather than preceed it. 1. 1 cor 2:14 "But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understandthem, because they are spiritually appraised" 2. Repentence prior to regeneration would mean that we are saved by something in addition to faith. As I have stated before, regeneration is the sole work of God and that repentence and faith are the saving graces which accompany it. I do not think that the reformed view is in conflict with 2 cor 7:10 because in the progression of the order of salvation, It does not see all the elements as necesarily happening sequentially over time. 1. Calling (The general call of the gospel.) 2. Regeneration (the creative act of God making the elect new beings. 3. Conversion (the exercise of that new heart in reponding to the gospel in repentance and faith) 4. Justification (the judicial act of God upon repentance and faith by which he declares and constitutes His elect "just" or righteous) 5. Adoption (the act by which God admits them intothe rights and privileges of the sons of God) 6. Sanctification (the work of God's Spirit by which the elect are enabled to perservere in faith unto ever greater conformity to the will of God) 7. Glorification (by which, ar the resurrection of the body, the believer is atlast constituted perfect in Christ in body and soul, forever. (G.I. Williamson, The WESTMINSTER CONFESSION OF FAITH FOR STUDY CLASSES) John |
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147 | LEFT BEHIND? | Bible general Archive 1 | John Reformed | 60254 | ||
Hi Ray, You Wrote: I encourage you to enter that thread and relate how thinking about the "spirit" and spiritual things [lower case] might influence or support your thoughts already expressed here. Could you be a bit more explicit Ray? I'm uncertain of what you mean. John |
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148 | LEFT BEHIND? | Bible general Archive 1 | John Reformed | 60258 | ||
Hi Tim, Thanks for the info. That is the very reason I wrote: I do not think that the reformed view is in conflict with 2 cor 7:10 because in the progression of the order of salvation, It does not see all the elements as neccesarily happening sequentially over time. Afterall, we are dealing here with a mystery and must be carefull lest we speak from human wisdom and human reason. If you are interested in the reformed view of the order of salvation, I'd be happy to explain it's scriptural foundation to the best of my poor ability. But Joe would probably be more knowledgable then me. John |
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149 | LEFT BEHIND? | Bible general Archive 1 | John Reformed | 60260 | ||
Dear Ed, Believe me when I say that my intenton was not to get one up on you or anyone else. I am passionate about what I believe and perhaps overly zealous in my replies, but my motivation is love for the brethren. I've learned much since coming to this forum and I hope my earlier rants have been tempored somewhat (by the grace of God) and the example of those wiser than I. If I am wrong let me know. John |
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150 | LEFT BEHIND? | Bible general Archive 1 | John Reformed | 60390 | ||
Hi Ray, The following is my undrstanding of 1 Cor 2:12-14 1 Cor 2:12 Now we (saints) have received, not the spirit of the world (a fallible, changing creaturely spirit), but the Spirit who is from God (an infallible immutable divine Spirit), so that we (saints) may know the things freely given to us by God, 1 Cor 2:13 which things we also speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words. 1 Cor 2:14 But a natural man (one endowed with only the faculties of nature) does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised. This is such a plain message, that I for one, can't see how it says anything more than is easily understood from a simple reading of it. Of course if it is taken literaly it has tremendous impact on our understanding of why and how some recieve the gospel and others reject it. I can only conclude that when God provides some with saving grace that the Spirit of enlightenment (The Holy Spirit) accompanies it (in fact I believe it is the Holy Spirit who actually applies salvation to those whom the Father has chosen). I don't know if I answered your question or not. In v. 12 "spirit" refers to a worldly spirit and "Spirit" refers to the 3rd Person of the Trinity. I don't know where else to go with that. John |
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151 | LEFT BEHIND? | Bible general Archive 1 | John Reformed | 60394 | ||
Hello Justme, John 3:19-21 "This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God." Rom 1:21 "For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened" The verses you cited do not address my primary concern, which is to reconcile 1 Cor 2:14 with salvation. On it's face it seems to say that the gospel (which must be spiritualy appraised) cannot be understood by spiritualy dead people. How has God provided salvation under these circumstances? I am asking for a sripturaly supported answer. Thanks, John |
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152 | LEFT BEHIND? | Bible general Archive 1 | John Reformed | 60398 | ||
Justme, I have no desire (thank God) to add one jot or tittle to that which is perfect. I am interested however at arriving at the truth that is already contained within in the covers of the Bible. As you probably realize, there are some very tough nuts of wisdom in the Word and cracking open the shell to enjoy the fruit requires excertion. Of course without Divine enlightenment we would starve, but I believe the means God uses at times involves the sweat of our brows. Bible trivia may be fun but real knowledge generally requires labor. I enjoy working with others. So, If you would care to roll up your sleeves and join in ...you would be more than welcome. Your Brother, John |
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153 | LEFT BEHIND? | Bible general Archive 1 | John Reformed | 60403 | ||
Dear Justme, To give you an idea as where I am going with this line of reasoning I will tell you where I am at on this question. I believe that the only way a natural man can recieve and properly appraise spiritual things is by being made a new creature and being endowed by God with the mind of Christ. Once this has taken place, his blind eyes are opened and understands his sinfulness and pleads to Jesus for salvation. In other words: Salvation is totally of God. John |
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154 | LEFT BEHIND? | Bible general Archive 1 | John Reformed | 60483 | ||
Good Morning Ray, I need get ready for church, so I hope you don't mind if I just copy and paste a portion from a commentary to you. It may be helpfull. "For they are foolishness to him, neither can he know them." "The doctrine of the gospel," says he (Paul), "is insipid in the view of all that are wise merely in the view of man. But whence comes this? It is from their own blindness. In what respect, then, does this detract from the majesty of the gospel?" In short, while ignorant persons depreciate the gospel, because they measure its value by the estimation in which it is held by men, Paul derives an argument from this for extolling more highly its dignity. For he teaches that the reason why it is contemned is that it is unknown, and that the reason why it is unknown is that it is too profound and sublime to be apprehended by the understanding of man. What a superior wisdom this is, which so far transcends all human understanding, that man cannot have so much as a taste of it! While, however, Paul here tacitly imputes it to the pride of the flesh, that mankind dare to condemn as foolish what they do not comprehend, he at the same time shows how great is the weakness or rather bluntness of the human understanding, when he declares it to be incapable of spiritual apprehension. For he teaches, that it is not owing simply to the obstinacy of the human will, but to the impotency, also, of the understanding, that man does not attain to the things of the Spirit. Had he said that men are not willing to be wise, that indeed would have been true, but he states farther that they are not able. Hence we infer, that faith is not in one's own power, but is divinely conferred. "Because they are spiritually discerned." That is, the Spirit of God, from whom the doctrine of the gospel comes, is its only true interpreter, to open it up to us. Hence in judging of it, men's minds must of necessity be in blindness until they are enlightened by the Spirit of God. Hence infer, that all mankind are by nature destitute of the Spirit of God: otherwise the argument would be inconclusive. It is from the Spirit of God, it is true, that we have that feeble spark of reason which we all enjoy; but at present we are speaking of that special discovery of heavenly wisdom which God vouchsafes to his sons alone. Hence the more insufferable the ignorance of those who imagine that the gospel is offered to mankind in common in such a way that all indiscriminately are free to embrace salvation by faith. (John Calvin) I realize that many christians believe that unsaved people can freely choose to accept or reject the gospel message. To say that it is God alone that that has chosen is foreign to their democratic sense of fairness. But this line of reasoning elevates the will of man above that of God's will and implies that God is impotent in the face of human rebellion to save anyone. On the subject of free will, I do not contend that man does not have this faculty. He is free to choose according to the desire of his heart. But, tell me: What does the Bible say is the condition of the heart prior to faith? Gotta Go, John |
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155 | Searcher who are the 2 J's ? | Bible general Archive 1 | John Reformed | 61725 | ||
Dear Searcher, Please do'nt feel compelled to reply to this note. I admit that I was a bit distressed by your comment to GJH and my immediate reaction was to send off a scathing rebuke. But in all honesty, I am sick of all the fighting. Maybe you have a point. I have been on a soapbox and I will admit, that to many evangelical christians in 21st century America, my views and those of JRdoc ARE percieved as extreme. But Searcher, If you look at the history of the church you will see that my "extreme" views are the same as the men who are the fathers of protestantism. These views were predominant for over 300 years after the Reformation. It was not til the teachings of John Wesley in the 1700's that your "moderate" view began to spread and take root in America. Now the longevity of a view has no bearing on whether it is correct or incorrect. The fact that the early reformers Luther, Calvin, Zwinlgli and Melancthon held this view or Whitfield and Edwards (The First Great Awakening) or Charles Spurgeon or any other men who are loved and repected by those who know about them, still proves nothing. It is Scripture alone on which we must place our faith and hope. "Thy Word is truth". I only ask: if you see that I am in error come to me, and tell me. If I am wrong and you have proven it through the Word, perhaps the Holy Spirit will grant me enlightenment. God Bless the Both of Us and GJH as well, Brother John |
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156 | Is God responsible for evil? | Bible general Archive 1 | John Reformed | 61765 | ||
Brother Zach! I was delighted to have come across your post. Welcome back! John |
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157 | God is in control of every single atom? | Bible general Archive 1 | John Reformed | 61770 | ||
ooops, I forgot to credit Geoff Thomas--Part 2 3. Limited purpose does not rule out indiscriminate preaching There are a people whom God the Father has given to God the Son (John 17:2 etc.). They have such titles as "the church," t"he people of God," "the children of God" or Jesus' "sheep." Often in the New Testament we are told that Christ's death was focused upon accomplishing their salvation: "He shall save his people from their sins" (Matthew 1:21); "Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her" (Ephesians 5:25); "Jesus would die for the Jewish nation, and not only for that nation but also for the scattered children of God, to bring them together and make them one" (John 11:51-52); "You do not believe because you are not my sheep. My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand" (John 10:26-28). The Lord Christ has fulfilled God's purpose in saving all those who are his people. Yet to every single person in the world without exception the Christian may sincerely say, "I have good news for you. I have Christ crucified for you to believe upon. I have this Saviour who is prophet, priest and king for you to receive, and serve." The Christian must then invite his hearer(s) to believe his message, and demand that he do so, and even beseech him in the name of Christ that he does not go on in unbelief. The Christian does that to every single person without distinction or discrimination. The Christian quotes to all men the words of God, "Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God and there is none else" (Isaiah 45:22); and again, "As I live saith the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live; turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?" (Ezekiel 33:11). The Saviour is presented to lost men as one who has accomplished a full and perfect redemption, who would sincerely save them from their sin, and who takes no pleasure in their death. 4. Preservation does not rule out perseverance Every true Christian experiences the continuous operation of the Holy Spirit by which the work of divine grace begun in him is continued and brought to completion. This doctrine is clearly taught in Scripture (John 10:28-29; Romans 11:29; Philippians 1:6; 2 Thessalonians 3:3; 2 Timothy 1:12; 4:18). Every believer is preserved by the power of God through faith unto salvation (1 Peter 1:5). Yet the Bible teaches that every Christian must persevere on his individual pilgrimage. That guards against every notion or suggestion to the effect that a believer is secure, that is to say, secure as to his eternal salvation, quite irrespective of the extent to which he may fall into sin and backslide from faith and holiness. While a Christian may and does sin he cannot abandon himself to sin; he cannot come under the dominion of sin; he cannot be guilty of certain kinds of unfaithfulness (e.g. the sin which is unto death). So, though the believer is preserved he is not secure utterly irrespective of his subsequent life of sin and unfaithfulness. He will persevere in believing in God. It is not that he will be saved irrespective of his perseverance but he will keep plodding to the end. His preservation is inseparable from his perseverance. |
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158 | God is in control of every single atom? | Bible general Archive 1 | John Reformed | 61771 | ||
And 1 more short Part 3 5. Love does not rule out law Christian love is the greatest of all. It is the "distinguishing mark of the Christian life" (John Blanchard), "the badge of Christ's disciples" (Matthew Henry), "the leading affection of the soul" (Matthew Henry), "the queen of all the Christian graces" (Arthur Pink), "the silver thread that runs through all your conduct" (J. C. Ryle). Without love a church is nothing at all (1 Corinthians 13:2). The new commandment Christ gives his people is to love one another as he has loved us. By this fervent pure affection the world will know that we are God's people Love is the most godlike grace. Yet Paul says, "The law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good" (Romans 7:12). Of course it must be; it comes from God; it displays his very nature. Paul cries, "I delight in the law of God after the inward man" (Romans 7:22). He loves the law because it shows the perfections of the Holy One. The Christian is freed from the law's condemnation and curse through the saving work of Christ. No longer is the law to him a dread voice accusing and judging. Christ has quenched Mount Sinai's flame; the believer is freed from sin and from the law. But now he becomes the bondslave of Jesus Christ his great liberator, and so fulfills "the law of Christ" (Galatians 6:2). "If you love me, keep my commandments," says the Saviour (John 14:15). Love is the Christian's inward motive; but the law of Christ is his directive. As someone has put it, "Law is love's eyes. Without law love is blind." These twin themes, the outworking of the revelation of God's sovereignty, both taught so clearly in Scripture, are the stuff of holy conversation and profitable meditation.(geoff Thomas)http://www.founders.org/FJ24/article2.html John |
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159 | God is in control of every single atom? | Bible general Archive 1 | John Reformed | 61772 | ||
oops again, this time I sent it to myself. Duh! And 1 more short Part 3 5. Love does not rule out law Christian love is the greatest of all. It is the "distinguishing mark of the Christian life" (John Blanchard), "the badge of Christ's disciples" (Matthew Henry), "the leading affection of the soul" (Matthew Henry), "the queen of all the Christian graces" (Arthur Pink), "the silver thread that runs through all your conduct" (J. C. Ryle). Without love a church is nothing at all (1 Corinthians 13:2). The new commandment Christ gives his people is to love one another as he has loved us. By this fervent pure affection the world will know that we are God's people Love is the most godlike grace. Yet Paul says, "The law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good" (Romans 7:12). Of course it must be; it comes from God; it displays his very nature. Paul cries, "I delight in the law of God after the inward man" (Romans 7:22). He loves the law because it shows the perfections of the Holy One. The Christian is freed from the law's condemnation and curse through the saving work of Christ. No longer is the law to him a dread voice accusing and judging. Christ has quenched Mount Sinai's flame; the believer is freed from sin and from the law. But now he becomes the bondslave of Jesus Christ his great liberator, and so fulfills "the law of Christ" (Galatians 6:2). "If you love me, keep my commandments," says the Saviour (John 14:15). Love is the Christian's inward motive; but the law of Christ is his directive. As someone has put it, "Law is love's eyes. Without law love is blind." These twin themes, the outworking of the revelation of God's sovereignty, both taught so clearly in Scripture, are the stuff of holy conversation and profitable meditation.(geoff Thomas)http://www.founders.org/FJ24/article2.html John |
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160 | God is in control of every single atom? | Bible general Archive 1 | John Reformed | 61778 | ||
Dear Brother Hank, I said oops! short for made a mistake. In fact I made two mistakes. 1. I forgot to credit the author on my initial post. 2. I sent the final post to myself! Forgiven but not perfect yet! Brother John |
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