Results 1281 - 1300 of 1443
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Results from: Notes Author: Emmaus Ordered by Date |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1281 | purgatory is it true? | Matt 22:32 | Emmaus | 39264 | ||
Ed, I won't try anymore. You are stuck on something, (repitition of a particular paryer)that is not even an intregal part of the sacrament, to the exclusion of the major element, God's grace. I would say you can't see the forest for the tree. I have done my best and will let this subject rest. Emmaus |
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1282 | purgatory is it true? | Matt 22:32 | Emmaus | 39263 | ||
2 of 2 parts Joe, As for the Marian doctrines so many reject, Luther, Calvin and Zwingli had somewhat different opinions. Mary as the New Eve, mother of all the living in Christ: "Mary is the mother of Jesus and the mother of us all. If Christ is ours , we must be where he is; and all that he has must be ours, and his mother is therefore ours also." Luther "We are the children of Mary" Luther "The knot of Eve's disobedience was loosed by the obedience of Mary What the virgin Eve had bound in unbelief, the Virgin Mary loosed through faith." Irenaus (189 A.D.) Against Heresies. Immaculately Conceived "But the other conception, namely the infusion of the soul, is piosly and suitably believed, was without any sin, so that while the soul was being infused, she would at the same time be cleansed from original sin and adorned with the gifts of God to recive the holy soul thus infused. And thus in the very moment in which she began to live, she was without all sin.." Luther "Christ was born of a most undefiled virgin." "It was fitting that such a holy son have a holy mother." Zwingli Ever Virgin Mother of God "It is an article of faith that Mary is mother of the Lord and still a virgin." Luther "The Council (Ephesus) has not offered anything new to faith but has strengthened the old faith against the arrogance of Nestorius. This article of faith-that Mary is the Mother of God- is present in the Church and is not a new creation of the Council but the presentation of the Gospel and scriptures." "In this work wherby she was made the Mother of God, so many and such good things were given that no on can grasp them." Luther "Helvidius has shown himself too ignorant, in saying that Mary had several sons, because mention is made in some passages of the brothers of Christ." Calvin, who here followed the traditional catholic interpretation to mean cousins or relatives. "Elizabeth called Mary Mother of the Lord, because the unity of the person in the two natures of Christ was such that she could have said that the mortal man engendered in the womb of Mary was at the same time the eternal God." " It cannot be denied that God in choosing and destining Mary to be the Mother of his Son, granted her the highest honor." Calvin "I firmly believe that Mary, according to the words of the gospel as a pure Virgin brought forth for us the Son of God and in childbirth and after childbirth forever remained a pure, intact Virgin." Zwingli Assumption "There can be no doubt that the Virgin Mary is in heaven. How it happened we do not know." Luther "Mary's sacrosanct body was borne by angels to heaven." Heinrich Bullinger ( Cranmmer's brother in law and successor to Zwingli) "The course of this life having been completed by Blessed mary,when now she would be called from the world, all that apostles came together from their various regions to her house. And when they had heard she was about to be taked from the world, they kept watch together with her. And behold, the Lord Jesus came with his angels, and taking her soul gave to the angel Michael and withdrew. At daybreak, however, however, the apotles took up her body on a bier and placed it in a tomb; and they guarded it, expecting the Lord to come. And behold again the Lord stood by them and the holy body having been received, he commanded that it be taken in a cloud to paradise: where now joined with her soul, (Mary), rejoices with the Lord's chosen ones, and is in the enjoyment of the good of an eternity that will never end." St Gregory of tours in his Eight Books of miracles (circa 580 A.D.) This was obviously an ancient tradition even then. Where was the outrage at such a novel doctrine from a saint. And not exactly new to the 20th century. Joe, you are well read enough to know that Dogmatic definitions are always codifications of ancient beliefs and doctrines, even if they are ones you do not accept. 20th century? You are better informed than that. Emmaus |
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1283 | purgatory is it true? | Matt 22:32 | Emmaus | 39262 | ||
1 of 2 parts Joe, "P.S. No altar in my church. Christ already made the last sacrifice of atonement." He is always before the Father presenting His sacrifice and that is the altar to which we attend. Read Revelation. The Eastern Orthodox are not in the same category as the Protetsant reformers. The Orthodox accept the sacraments, the apostolic succession, the priesthood and all the Marian doctrines which you say are from the late middle ages, though the orthodox parted much earlier and if anything hold Mary if it is possible in higher esteem as "the Panagia", the all holy. As for Romans 4. Paul NEVER said "faith alone," only Luther's isogesis reads that into the text. Paul preached a faith that was faithful and active in obedience that was received by grace. If there is anything we are saved by alone it is grace. Paul never said faith alone and James never said works alone but he did say "we are saved by works not by faith alone" because thay both knew that saving faith is not a passive virtue. A living person is an integrated whole of body and soul or it is dead. A saved person has faith and works by grace or that person is spiritually dead. Paul and James were speaking of the same faith. They both used Abraham to illustrate. Abraham's faith was an active responsive faith. Paul and James were talking about a different kind of works. Paul about works of the law ( circumcison, dietary, etc) and any works outside of grace given active saving faith. James was talking about works in Christ which Pauls addressed as "faith working through love" and " we are created in Christ Jesus for good works." Note that Abraham's works could not be works of the law because they were done in faith and before the law was given. Jesus said; " Not eveyone who cries Lord, Lord will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven, but him who does the will of the Father." Emmaus |
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1284 | purgatory is it true? | Matt 22:32 | Emmaus | 39136 | ||
Ed, I have never had a penance that I thought was severe in any way and that is not because all my sins were small. I have never met any other Catholic who ever mentioned a severe penance either. Penance is not retribution, nor is it paying a price. Let me try one more illustration. I am a man who loves "La dolce vita". I eat, I drink, I lay in the sun, I smoke cubanos. I ignore all advice that this is bad for my health. I have a heart attack. This is a wake up call. I become convinced of the wickedness of my ways. I seek help. I go to this man I am told is the best heart surgeon in the whole world. He does all his work pro bono. I confess my wicked ways and ask him to save my life because no one else can. He does surgery, gives me a valve job and quadruple bypasses, the works, no charge. Now that I am feeling better I go to my follow up visit feeling very gratefull. He says: "Emmaus, you could have lost it all, but I have fixed you up good or better than new. But take my advice. Give up the liquor, the cigars, and the rich food. Start walking for exercise and I want you to read from this book on healthy living a little bit everyday. In fact it would be a good idea if maybe your repeated some passages daily in in order to stay focussed and healthy. And come see me often so we can stay in touch too." I say, "I love you Doc. Anything you say." And I do my best to do what he has asked. Is that punishment, retribution or paying for the life saving medical miracle that the doctor's work has done? Emmaus |
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1285 | purgatory is it true? | Matt 22:32 | Emmaus | 39129 | ||
Joe, "What sola Scriptura means is not "just me and my Bible." It means that the traditions and teachings of the apostles and prophets are inscripturated in the Old and New Testaments, and they should be the church's sole guide to correctly discerning what the will of God is and in what the traditions of apostles actually consist." This is circular logic. If the traditions are all "inscripturated" then the only tradition is the bible and the bible is the only tradition. The fruit of Sola Scriptura is the almost infinite splintering of Chritianity that we see today. From Luther to the 20,000 or more denominations, "non-demoninations" and independents. Even Luther as time progressed recognized with dismay the religious anarchy that his well intentioned effort at reform based on the two solas had become after less than 10 years. And that was just the very beginning. He wrote in 1525 "There are as many sects and beliefs as there are heads. This fellow will have nothing to do with Baptism, another denies the Sacrament; a third believes that there is another world between this and the Last day. Some teach that Christ is not God; some say this, some say that. There is no rustic so rude but that, if he dreams or fancies anything, it must be the whisper of the Holy Spirit and he himself a prophet." and also "How many doctors have I made by preaching and writing! Now they say, Be off with you. Go off with you. Go to the devil. This it must be. When we preach they laugh...When we get angry and threaten them, they mock us and laugh up their sleeves." and "There is no smearer, but when he has heard a sermon or can read a chapter in German, makes a doctor of himslf and crowns his ass and convinces himself that he knows better than all who teach him." and "When we have heard or learned a few things about Holy Scripture, we think we are already doctors and have swallowed the Holy Ghost, feathers and all." Sola Scriptura can easily lead to the famous "Bondage of the Will" but it is the bondage of each man to his own will. You frequently mention medieval doctrines that are not found in tradition or scripture. I would submit Sola Scripura and Sola Fide as two prime examples of the same presented by Martin Luther at the end of the Middle Ages. Some Rennaisance! Thanks, I think I will pass on that. You work on your side of the aisle and I will work on mine. Maybe we will meet at the altar. Emmaus |
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1286 | purgatory is it true? | Matt 22:32 | Emmaus | 38968 | ||
They are not the Church Jesus founded and promised the gates of Hell would not prevail against and that the Spirit would lead to all truth and that those who hear it, hear him. They are not the Church that preserved the Old Testament, produced by the Holy Spirit's inspiration of its members the New Testament and discerned which books were inspired, without which we would not even be having this conversation. Emmaus |
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1287 | purgatory is it true? | Matt 22:32 | Emmaus | 38964 | ||
Ed, I thought the scripture passage was a good illustration of the thought that penance is a form of thanksgiving for God's mercy and forgiveness. I was hoping you would see that. That was it, nothing more. I am amazed at how those who may have never expierienced the Sacrament of Confession focus on what seems the smallest part to me. Not all penances are Hail Marys. And Catholics are much less obsessed with Hail Marys than many non Catholics seem to be. Many non Catholics react to Hail Marys like kids do like to those mysterious cooties. It is like we are speaking a different language or seeing through different cultural lenses. Here is a real penance I was given to do. "Take your wife out to dinner." Not a Hail Mary in the whole meal. And not exactly heavy labor works. Imagine that. As for the work. The work is God's. It is his grace and mercy. It seems hard for many non Catholics to believe a Catholic is trying to make that point. So many seem to think we are all obsessed with works and Hail Marys. It just ain't so. Emmaus |
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1288 | purgatory is it true? | Matt 22:32 | Emmaus | 38925 | ||
Lionstrong, What does the Bible say is the pillar and foundation of truth? Where does the Bible say to go when you have a dispute with your brother that cannot be resolved between yourselves or with witnesses? the answer is not the Bible, but the answer has the Bible and is the authoritative interpreter of the Bible. 1 Timothy 3:15, Matt 18:15-18. Emmaus |
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1289 | purgatory is it true? | Matt 22:32 | Emmaus | 38922 | ||
Lionstrong, Just can't bring yourself to type those word from James 2:24 can you? Please stay on point. Emmaus |
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1290 | purgatory is it true? | Matt 22:32 | Emmaus | 38812 | ||
Lionstrong, Sorry I don't see the words "sola scriptura" or "scripture alone" in anything you have presented no matter how you translate it. Maybe you can do better with "faith alone." I know where that is in the bible. But it is in James not Paul. Could you quote that for me in its sentence? Emmaus |
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1291 | purgatory is it true? | Matt 22:32 | Emmaus | 38788 | ||
Tim, I've done it before. I have come to the conclusion, especially since I am a minority voice here, that it is better to make my point in a few posts and let it stand and let the other point of view do the same. You and Joe and some of the other guys have more stamina for debate just with the Protestant controversies. I don't see the merit in unifying you all and bringing down the whole forum on my own head more often than I feel compelled to in conscience. Besides, I need to sleep sometime. :-) Good night! Emmaus |
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1292 | purgatory is it true? | Matt 22:32 | Emmaus | 38783 | ||
Tim, Did you miss the part where I said that those who do not believe in Purgatory would disagree the interpretations I gave? Yes the cross completed the job. Where did I say or imply it did not? Does the fact that you and I are being sanctified and conformed to Christ after we are justified imply that the cross did not complete the job? Of course not. That conforming and sanctifying is the ongoing application of the graces won on the cross. As is the final detailing, so to speak. Christ's work sanctifies us. Is He limited by our death if we are already justified but not completely sanctified or conformed to him by the time we die or can He still complete the work he began in us to purify us to enter heaven without spot or wrinkle? I know I don't have to give you all the citations on that. You know them already. I was not expecting you or anyone else to be overcome by my explanation. I was just presenting the Catholic answer to the question posed. I assumed for obvious reasons that 99 percent of the forum would more than adequately represent the other answer to the question. We have both fulfilled our duty to give the reason for the hope that is in us even if we disagree on some details the reason. Emmaus |
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1293 | purgatory is it true? | Matt 22:32 | Emmaus | 38750 | ||
EdB, Sorry to have disturbed your sleep last night. I must go out tonight. But please go to bed tonight meditating on this passage from Luke 7 and 8: 37: And behold, a woman of the city, who was a sinner, when she learned that he was at table in the Pharisee's house, brought an alabaster flask of ointment, 38: and standing behind him at his feet, weeping, she began to wet his feet with her tears, and wiped them with the hair of her head, and kissed his feet, and anointed them with the ointment. 39: Now when the Pharisee who had invited him saw it, he said to himself, "If this man were a prophet, he would have known who and what sort of woman this is who is touching him, for she is a sinner." 40: And Jesus answering said to him, "Simon, I have something to say to you." And he answered, "What is it, Teacher?" 41: "A certain creditor had two debtors; one owed five hundred denarii, and the other fifty. 42: When they could not pay, he forgave them both. Now which of them will love him more?" 43: Simon answered, "The one, I suppose, to whom he forgave more." And he said to him, "You have judged rightly." 44: Then turning toward the woman he said to Simon, "Do you see this woman? I entered your house, you gave me no water for my feet, but she has wet my feet with her tears and wiped them with her hair. 45: You gave me no kiss, but from the time I came in she has not ceased to kiss my feet. 46: You did not anoint my head with oil, but she has anointed my feet with ointment. 47: Therefore I tell you, her sins, which are many, are forgiven, for she loved much; but he who is forgiven little, loves little." 48: And he said to her, "Your sins are forgiven." 49: Then those who were at table with him began to say among themselves, "Who is this, who even forgives sins?" 50: And he said to the woman, "Your faith has saved you; go in peace." 1: Soon afterward he went on through cities and villages, preaching and bringing the good news of the kingdom of God. And the twelve were with him, 2: and also some women who had been healed of evil spirits and infirmities: Mary, called Mag'dalene, from whom seven demons had gone out, 3: and Joan'na, the wife of Chuza, Herod's steward, and Susanna, and many others, who provided for them out of their means. Emmaus |
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1294 | purgatory is it true? | Matt 22:32 | Emmaus | 38747 | ||
Lionstrong, As you may know Catholics are not "bible alone" people. Could you tell me where the Bible says that the Bible is the sole rule of faith? I believe I explained the concept of asking for one another's prayers when I discussed all Christians here or in heaven being in Christ and that death can not separate us from one another in Him. Emmaus |
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1295 | Who is "Lilith" in Isaiah 34:13-15? | Genesis | Emmaus | 38549 | ||
Hank, I always suspected you country boys were a little sly and ahead of the the curve and the slicker than the city boys. Lilith must have been a country girl. All this time you have been hiding Cain's wife under a basket while the rest of the forum didn't even know her name. Emmaus |
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1296 | purgatory is it true? | Matt 22:32 | Emmaus | 38543 | ||
Dylan, I think you misunderstand the true meaning of Jesus' saying in Matt 23:1-12 to call no man father on earth. Jesus was warning us not to look at any man as father in the same sense that God alone is our father and the father of us all, so that through Jesus we can become children of God our Father. Please note that Jesus himself says "your father Abraham" in John 8:56. Stephen refers to "fathers" in Acts 7:2, 38-39,44-45, 51-53. Paul refers to "our father Abraham" in Romans 4:1,12,16 and James refers to "father Abraham" in James 2:21. See also 1 Cor 4:14-15 when Paul calls himself a spiritual father to the Corinthians "I do not write this to make you ashamed, but to admonish you as my beloved children. For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel." Other verses worth review in this matter are 1 Thess 2:11; 1 Timothy 1:2; Philemon 1:9-10 and 1 John 2:13-14. Regarding you points about Mary. She does not forgive sins, nor do Catholics believe she does. If you know the Hail Mary you know that it starts quoting Luke 1:28,42 and ends in a request that she pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. In other words we are asking her to pray for us as we would any other friend. We believe that all the saints, here and in heaven, are bound up in the body of Christ and because we are together in Him, not even death separates us from on another in the bonds of love and prayer for one another. Emmaus |
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1297 | purgatory is it true? | Matt 22:32 | Emmaus | 38541 | ||
EdB, Fair question. It was just addressed last week in a daily note I subscribe to called A Word of Encouragement. Here is it had to say directly on the question you raised. I hasten to add that I do see you as one putting yourself through the paroxysms mentioned, but I have encountered a few and only a few such persons. Emmaus The Acts of the Penitent! -------------------------- Isaiah 58:6 Is not this the fast that I choose: to loose the bonds of wickedness, to undo the thongs of the yoke, to let the oppressed go free, and to break every yoke? -------------------- One of the funniest things about the Sacrament of Reconciliation is the strange paroxysms that some opponents of the Church put themselves through to complain about penance. On the one hand, we're told that penance is an outrageous form of "works salvation" which allegedly requires us to do something in order to "earn" the grace of God. On the other hand, we're also told that penances are trivial and light and no work at all and that if the Church were serious, its priests would assign "meaningful" penances. So there you are: penance is a burden and it's not burden enough, according to the critics. In reality, however, the Sacrament of Reconciliation is, like all things Catholic, incarnational. Repentance is supposed to issue in action, not just words. So the Church calls for some small act of penance to be done, not as a way of earning grace, but as a way of living out the grace we have received. Typically, this act is small precisely in order that it may not be a burden. But it is real because grace must be incarnate just as the Word had to become flesh. Real penance is not just a ritual: rather, it is a way of saying thanks! |
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1298 | asking about jesus growing up | Luke 2:52 | Emmaus | 38408 | ||
Magnum, You wrote: "But the stance of the Catholic church is that these are spiritual brothers and sisters, and that Mary remained a virgin," The second part of your statement is accurate. The first part is not. The Catholic stance is not that they are spiritual brothers but that they are kinsmen or cousins since there is no specific word in Hebrew for an immediate blood brother to differentiate form a cousin. The Greek word in the NT is the same word used in the Septuagint Greek translation of the OT in many places to discribe both immediate brothers and other kinsmen. Emmaus |
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1299 | Bad Arguments Against Calvinism | John 15:16 | Emmaus | 38214 | ||
Joe, "Where do we see anyone but Abraham's descendants being circumcised?" I am not part of this discussion and have no side in it. But if I am not mistaken, circumcizion is relatively common in Africa as an initatory rite and the Egyptians also circumcized, but at age 13 I believe. Check on of your bible dictionaries to see if they agrees with mine. We do may agree or disagree on a number of points, but I think you are open to suggestion on particular points that may be an unintentional error in fact. I am not commenting on the general thrust of your argument, which I have not been following, but this specific point. If I had not seen it at the start of you post I would probably have passed by it. Emmaus |
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1300 | What do the Jehovah's Witnesses Teach? | Matt 24:11 | Emmaus | 38213 | ||
Klaos, This link is an excelent resource for any discussion with the Jehovah Witnesses. 55 Questions Every Jehovah's Witness Should Be Asked. http://www.goodcathinfo.com/ccarch55ques.htm Emmaus |
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