Results 121 - 140 of 232
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Results from: Notes Author: Grace and Truth Ordered by Date |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
121 | Holy Spirit evidence of Salvation? | Acts 2:38 | Grace and Truth | 51808 | ||
Tim, The thing to remember is, the Holy Spirit was speaking through Ananias, these are the words of the Holy Spirit! Your commentary cannot change God's word, and if Saul was already saved as your commentary says, didn't the Holy Spirit already know it? And why would the Holy Spirit tell Saul to do what was already done? That doesn't make sense at all. God knows more than we do on this issue, we need to trust him and his word. "arise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord" is real, believe it and teach it. This is something that you can't get out of! | ||||||
122 | Do we as men dictate the terms of Salv? | Bible general Archive 1 | Grace and Truth | 51807 | ||
"I don't put baptism in the category of what Jesus tells us to do in order to be saved. I know: Mark 16:16. Please cite for me ANY other verse where Jesus links baptism and salvation. As has been clearly pointed out, that section of Mark may not be the divinely-inspired writing of Mark. You believing it was definitely in the autographs is a an article of faith on your part and not an extablished fact". This is my whole point to you. You want someone to produce another, verse in the bible, but you know you would have to add to God's word to do it. But yet you wish to take Mark 16:16 out of all bibles and trying to say it's not inspired. I believe you and your friends want to take this verse out because it doesn't support your view of salvation. As I told Hank, Mark 16:16 is here to stay. You mentioned John 6:53, the people's reply to it, was, "this is a hard saying who can hear it" Mark 16:16 is viewed the same way today, by those who want to throw it out, instead of obeying what it says! "The water in baptism is a sign of washing away sins, just like the bread and the cup are the sign of Christ's body being offered for His people. The sign of baptism accompanies the reality of regeneration, but it is not the same thing as regeneration" Your above statement says baptism is a sign, baptism takes faith just like all spoken words from God's book, you have to believe in the power of what God said it for. Your last statement to mouse2, "that statement makes no sense" it made sense to Abraham! |
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123 | Holy Spirit evidence of Salvation? | Acts 2:38 | Grace and Truth | 51804 | ||
My dear friend Hank, It is Jesus who came to saved men from sin. It is Jesus who say He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved. It is Jesus who is the mediator of the new covenant that tells men what to do to be saved. All you and your friends have to do is listen and obey the word of Jesus. You try to tell us that baptism is a work, and you include it in the words that the apostle Paul spoke to the churches, but there is not one scripture that support your view on baptism being a work. The Holy Spirit gave Paul the words to tell us, he would not over ride the words of Jesus, because Jesus is the one who sent him. When you read the words in Mark 16:16 it reads the same every time, It will not change for you or nobody else. You and your friends talk about contraditions, when you try to make baptism in water, a work of the flesh you make it like something sinful, but it is the very thing that Jesus tells men to do to be saved, and it can't be denied. If Jesus had not spoken these words there would be no issue. But Mark 16:16 is here to stay! Maybe you need to here the words of Mary in John 2:5 ..."Whatsoever he saith unto you, do it". Jesus said in John 3:5 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. Notice the connection with water and of the Spirit, but of corse to you it doesn't mean water baptism, but if you read to the end of the chapter that's what was going on! You can dismiss what Jesus tells us to do, but I will never dismiss what Jesus says. |
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124 | Holy Spirit evidence of Salvation? | Acts 2:38 | Grace and Truth | 51528 | ||
Let's look at the word 'works' Abraham believed What God said, am I right? So nothing he could do for himself could save him true? Just believe what God said, right? | ||||||
125 | Do we as men dictate the terms of Salv? | Bible general Archive 1 | Grace and Truth | 51527 | ||
Roman 4 does not contradict the need for baptism because Paul in the 6 chapter explains how we are buried by baptism into the death of Christ! Eph 2:8-9 does not contradict because in chapter 5:26 tells us we are cleanse with the washing of water by the word. Galatians does not contradict because in chapter 3:27 tells us we are baptized into Christ and have put on Christ. I know you refer to these passages as Holy Spirit baptism, but that's not what Paul is saying. I don't know if you notice that all of the places you were seeking justification by faith only, water baptism is there with faith. Finally, in each book that you referenced, who was the book written to, those who have already been baptized for the remission of thier sins. |
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126 | Do we as men dictate the terms of Salv? | Bible general Archive 1 | Grace and Truth | 51525 | ||
Roman 4 does not contradict the need for baptism because Paul in the 6 chapter explains how we are buried by baptism into the death of Christ! Eph 2:8-9 does not contradict because in chapter 5:26 tells us we are cleanse with the washing of water by the word. Galatians does not contradict because in chapter 3:27 tells us we are baptized into Christ and have put on Christ. I know you refer to these passages as Holy Spirit baptism, but that's not what Paul is saying. I don't know if you notice that all of the places you were seeking justification by only, water baptism is there with faith. Finally, in each book that you referenced, who was the book written to, those who have already been baptized for the remission of thier sins. |
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127 | Holy Spirit evidence of Salvation? | Acts 2:38 | Grace and Truth | 51523 | ||
Here again you say who's wrong and who's right! The bible is right! When Paul recounts his conversion He states Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord. What are we to do with this plain statement of scripture. GET MY POINT, CLEAR! Do you believe that Paul is speaking of water baptism, when he speaking of works? I notice in listening to what you were saying about faith only, and how you use the latter part of Mark 16:16 you say that baptism is not mentioned in the text, well baptism in water is not mentioned the text you are refering to no where. So how do you come to such conclusions on the subject of baptism in water? When we look at Romans 3,4,5,6 we must tie all of it together to understand what is being conveyed to the reader, Romans 6:1-9 Paul in verse 3,4,5 gives us good information on baptism and what it does for us, let me stop here and ask you a question once again, did water baptism come from God or is this some man made doctrine? |
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128 | Do we as men dictate the terms of Salv? | Bible general Archive 1 | Grace and Truth | 51516 | ||
It doesn't contradict Mark 16:16, Acts 2:38;8:38-39. When you read Gal,Eph and other text you are missing the fact the people being spoken to had already been baptized in water and they knew the reason why. Follow Paul's missionary journey in the book of Acts and you will see this to be true. | ||||||
129 | Holy Spirit evidence of Salvation? | Acts 2:38 | Grace and Truth | 51514 | ||
"The difficulty seems to be with how "justified" is used in James 2:21. There is more than one definition for this word". Here we go again, So James didn't know what he was talking about right! James states that Abrahams faith was (MADE PERFECT), who made it perfect (GOD)! |
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130 | Do we as men dictate the terms of Salv? | Bible general Archive 1 | Grace and Truth | 51509 | ||
I have a problem with what you teach because you ignore plain bible teaching, James 2:22 says Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and (by works was faith made perfect)? vs. 24 Ye see then how that by works a man is (JUSTIFIED), AND (NOT BY FAITH ONLY). So what you are telling me is to ignore what the bible is teaching, but I can't do that. So where do I get my understanding? From the word of God. You state that if we include baptism in water with God's plan of salvation we are wrong in doing so, But if God included baptism in water with HIS plan of salvation is HE wrong in doing so? Baptism in water came from God and not us who teach it. Matt.21:25 can you answer Jesus's question? |
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131 | Holy Spirit evidence of Salvation? | Acts 2:38 | Grace and Truth | 51507 | ||
They 'repented' at the preaching of Peter and received the 'gift of the Holy Spirit', which are the plural phrases connected together grammatically in Acts 2:38. Then, and only then, each one was baptized, in accordance with the singular command of Acts 2:38. I noticed that you want to invoke the clause, (and) for your above point, but not with Mark 16:16. Then you try to bring out what you call (simply wrong) understanding of Acts 2:38 and Acts 10:45 as if there is a contradiction, but the is no contradiction in either text, because what can be said of both text is that, they heard the word of God, they believed it, they repented, and we can see that by thier willingness to be baptized in the name of the Lord, now all of these elements are in the text, and cannot be denied. You want to place salvation at the point of belief, James 2:19 says, Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. vs.20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? vs. 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? vs.22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and (by works was faith made perfect)? vs. And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness; and he was called the Friend of God. vs.24 Ye see then how that by works a man is (justified), and not by (faith only). You talked about (contradiction) your whole belief system falls apart when James speaks to your heart! |
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132 | Holy Spirit evidence of Salvation? | Acts 2:38 | Grace and Truth | 51489 | ||
2. As noted in the conclusion, this naturally raises a few questions... a. Does this mean the baptism of the Holy Spirit is for us today? b. What exactly is the baptism of the Holy Spirit? 3. It may be of interest to note... a. The Scriptures never speak of the "baptism" of the Holy Spirit 1) In fact, the unity of the Spirit involves only "one baptism" - Ep 4:3-6 2) The "one baptism" can only be that commanded by Christ: a) Of everyone in all the world - Mt 28:19; Mk 16:16 b) For the remission of sins - Ac 2:38; 22:16 c) A baptism in water - e.g., Ac 8:35-38; 10:47-48 d) A washing of regeneration and renewing by the Spirit, in which we are born again of water and the Spirit - Ti 3:5; Jn 3:5 b. When it comes to any "baptism" involving the Spirit, we find only these phrases: 1) "He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit" - Mt 3:11; Mk 1:8; Lk 3:16 2) "He who baptizes with the Holy Spirit" - Jn 1:33 3) "You shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit" - Ac 1:5; 11:16 -- This is the entirety of what the Bible says about "baptizing" involving the Spirit, with the possible exception of 1 Co 12:13 (see below) 4. Is this a distinction without a difference? Perhaps, but it may avoid confusion to remember... a. The phrase, "baptism of the Holy Spirit," does not occur in the Bible! b. On the other hand, phrases connected to the promise of Jesus baptizing with the Spirit include: 1) "I send the Promise of My Father upon you..." - Lk 24:49 2) "I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh..." - Ac 2:17 3) "I will pour out My Spirit" - Ac 2:18 4) "He poured out this..." - Ac 2:33 5) "the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out..." - Ac 10:45 6) "...the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out on us abundantly" - Ti 3:5,6 -- Whatever the "baptism" of the Holy Spirit, it is intertwined with the "pouring out" (or sending) of the Spirit that occurred on the day of Pentecost [The difficulty in defining the "baptism" of the Holy Spirit can be illustrated by briefly surveying...] I. COMMON VIEWS OF THE "BAPTISM" A. AN EVENT THAT OCCURRED BUT A FEW TIMES... 1. On the day of Pentecost (Ac 2) a. And only upon the apostles b. For the purpose of equipping them for their work 2. At the conversion of Cornelius and his household, the first Gentiles (Ac 10,11) a. Not for the purpose of saving them b. But to show Peter and the Jews that Gentiles could now be saved 3. Some would add a third occurrence a. Involving Saul at some point (Ac 9) b. To equip him for his work as an apostle 4. Others might include what happened in Samaria and Ephesus a. When the Samaritans received the Spirit by the laying on of hands (Ac 8) b. When the Ephesians received the Spirit by the laying on of hands (Ac 19) 5. This view equates the "baptism" of the Spirit with the miraculous manifestations recorded in the passages cited, indicating an overwhelming measure of the Spirit -- Variations of this view are held by most people in churches of Christ today B. AN EVENT THAT OCCURS AT EVERY CONVERSION... 1. When a person is saved, they are that moment "baptized" with the Holy Spirit a. Some put this at the point of faith 1) Appealing to the case of Cornelius and his family in Ac 10 2) Yet Peter's explanation reveals that the Spirit came upon them before they heard the words by which they could be saved - Ac 11:14-15 3) The purpose was to show Peter and the Jews that Gentiles could now be saved just as they were - cf. Ac 10:46-48; 11:16-17; 15:7-9 b. Others place it at the point of water baptism 1) Suggesting we are baptized in both water and Spirit - cf. Jn 3:5 2) Referring also to the washing of regeneration and renewal by the Spirit - Ti 3:5 2. The key passage used to support this idea is 1 Co 12:13 |
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133 | Ques. for Grace andTruth | Romans | Grace and Truth | 51484 | ||
Your statement in 1,2,3. I agree with, but your understanding of 4, when you and those who believe like you are saying that this verse excludes what Jesus told his apostles to tell the world to do in Mark 16:16, I believe you are wrong. Then 5, nowhere in the new testament has this been told to anyone, 5 is a man made doctrine, no scripture for it in the new testament: but it is taught as if Jesus said it himself. I notice also none of you who believe the (faith only) doctrine would use the book of James to justify your theory. | ||||||
134 | Was it complete? | Bible general Archive 1 | Grace and Truth | 51481 | ||
B. OBSERVATIONS REGARDING THE RESPONSE... 1. People responded in three different ways - Ac 17:32-34 a. Some mocked what they heard b. Some put off making a decision until later c. Some decided to follow with Paul and believed -- Since we have no promise of tomorrow, the only safe course is the last! 2. Of those who responded favorably, it is only said that they "believed" - Ac 17:34 a. Are we to conclude from this that was all they did? b. Did they not also "repent", as commanded in Ac 17:30? c. The term "believed" encompassed more than simply an acceptance of the facts that had been proclaimed 1) It involved a complete reception of the message preached 2) It included an obedience to whatever conditions had been proclaimed by the apostles (such as repentance, baptism) d. Just as faith was not explicitly mentioned in Acts 2, or repentance in Acts 16, but is fairly inferred from what we know from other passages, so also with baptism here 1) "There is, indeed, much to be said for the contention, independently advocated by theologians of varied schools, that in the New Testament faith and baptism are viewed as inseparables whenever the subject of Christian initiation is under discussion, so that if one is referred to, the other is presupposed, even if not mentioned." - G. R. Beasley-Murray, Baptism In The New Testament, p. 272 2) "Baptism and faith are but the outside and inside of the same thing" - James Denny (as quoted by Beasley-Murray, ibid.) 3) "Where baptism is spoken of faith is presumed, and where faith is spoken of baptism is included in the thought" - N. J. Engelsen (as quoted by Beasley-Murray, ibid.) CONCLUSION 1. Whether Jew or Gentile, philosopher or simpleton, the gospel of Christ is for all... a. Where we begin may vary with the spiritual condition of our audience b. Where we end must always be the same: 1) Proclaiming the reality of sin, judgment, and the need for repentance 2) With Jesus as the only way to salvation! 2. When one becomes convicted of their sinful condition and their need for Jesus, the proper response should also be the same no matter who we are... a. Faith in Jesus as the Son of God, who died for our sins and was raised from the dead, whom we are willing to confess before men b. Repentance from sin d. Baptism into Christ for the forgiveness of sins through His blood One's reaction to the gospel will always be one of three ways: * Rejection ("some mocked") * Reluctance ("others said, we will hear you again on this matter") * Reception ("some men joined him and believed") In Athens, people such as Dionysius and Damaris exemplified the proper response; are you willing to imitate their example? |
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135 | Water baptism is that something we do or | 1 John 2:4 | Grace and Truth | 51434 | ||
Is that what happened with the eunuch and Philip? Acts 8:26-39, there was no one but Philip and the eunuch, that was more private! | ||||||
136 | h | 1 John 2:4 | Grace and Truth | 51433 | ||
I ask a simple question, if you want to read into that's up to you! If there is no relations please just say so, then I'll try another question. I can have notice that most on this forum believe basicly the same, I just thought I'd inject some thought provoking question into the forum, that's why it's here is'nt it. What if I was a nonbeliever and I ask the same questions, would you not answer them? It just so happened that I believe, what the bible says concerning faith, repentance, confession,and water baptism into Christ. It's different from what you believe, but that doesn't mean we can't talk about it on this forum does it? One other note: I notice that speaking with tongues, has been a subject that has been a topic longer than baptism, and no ones tired of it! | ||||||
137 | How do these passages relate 1 John 2:4 | 1 John 2:4 | Grace and Truth | 51420 | ||
No! I asked How do these passages relate 1 John 2:4 and Mark 16:16. | ||||||
138 | Was it complete? | Bible general Archive 1 | Grace and Truth | 51394 | ||
I posted it that way, it was from the christiancourier.com on Cornelius. | ||||||
139 | Was it complete? | Bible general Archive 1 | Grace and Truth | 51387 | ||
Just as the Lord spoke to him on the road to Damascus, the Lord told him what to DO! (Mark 16:16 is what the Lord told the apostles to tell us). Here's a thief question, why didn't the Lord save Saul right there? Why did he send him to Ananias? Why did Ananias tell Saul get up and be baptized and wash away his sins? I know you're going to say he was already (saved) but a saved person doesn't need to be baptized and wash away his sins, as did Saul. I'm glad we stop by this scripture! Here we have the Lord himself telling Saul to go hear the gospel and believe it and be baptized and wash away his sins through Ananias! This something that can't be denied, this takes care of the thief question and all other question concerning salvation. This is the Risen Christ telling someone what they MUST DO to be saved! We know Jesus could have saved Saul right there, but He sent him to Ananias a servant of his to tell Saul what he MUST DO to be SAVED! Now if Jesus told Ananias what to tell Saul, and He did! Who on this forum can say that baptism is not in God's salvation plan? Or did Ananias say anything about baptism? And if he did, what did he say, and who told him to say whatever he said? And Why? | ||||||
140 | Mark 16:16 what does it say? | Bible general Archive 1 | Grace and Truth | 51382 | ||
You ask about Gal 3:15-17, which is the promised seed! Which is Christ! vs.2 is what Paul is addressing: "This only would I learn of you, Recieved ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith (Gospel)? And the verses are talking about the Law of Moses and the faith of Abraham I agree! vs.11 "The just shall live by faith (Gospel)". | ||||||
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