Results 1 - 20 of 39
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Author: Movingon Ordered by Verse |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | New Covenant beginning | Not Specified | Movingon | 240007 | ||
Why do we call Matt,Mk. Lk. Jo. New Testament(Covenant)? | ||||||
2 | His "Church"? | Not Specified | Movingon | 240124 | ||
What did the Lord mean when in Matt. 16:18 He said: "...I will build my church"? | ||||||
3 | Is the allegorical or metaphorical metho | Not Specified | Movingon | 240390 | ||
There are upwards of 300 different Christian denominations in America supposedly coming from the same textbook; the Bible? The parent from which all heresy sprang and is still very much with us today in the pseudo interpretation of Scripture. In ordinary Christian conversation about understanding Scripture one often hears the term “spiritual interpretation,” without realizing it is not happenstance or a natural progression, but has roots in things that most are not acquainted with. The terms “allegorical,” “parabolical,” “metaphorical,” or the more common expression in layman terms, “spiritual,” have their roots in ancient history. They are by their very geneses a stumbling block to, and in direct opposition to understanding Divine revelation. The Oxford Classical Dictionary states: “Allegorical reading of works of literature-above all the mythological poems of Homer and Hesiod, decoded as accounts of the physical world or the truths of morality-seems to begin as early as the 6th cent, BC and to be an established (if controversial) practice by the end of the 5th.” It is almost inconceivable that rational people would or could approach the Scriptures with such foolishness in mind, yet that is precisely what those who use that method do. It should be axiomatic, if a normal literal statement doesn’t mean what is said, then, it has no meaning. If God indeed meant other than what is written, the entirely reasonable question could be asked concerning the misuse of Scripture, “How could God find fault with anyone, if He himself doesn’t mean what He says? From the heathen mystery religions came the belief that not only did almost every passage have a secret, mysterious and higher meaning, but that God had at times actually falsified even historical events and dates as Philo, an Alexandrian Jew (20 BC AD 50) a contemporary of Christ claimed. This was the method commonly taught by Philo, Barnabas, and later by Clement of Alexandria, who passed it on to his star pupil, Origen (185 254), who in AD 203 at the age of eighteen became head of the catechetical school of theology at Alexandria Egypt, which at that time was the world’s foremost Christian school. From the beginning that belief was established by the church leadership as the correct and legitimate method of teaching that would determine the course of church history and to a great extent world history for the next thirteen centuries until the Reformation. It paved the road to the dark ages for a thousand years and even until the present the same disastrous method is used more or less by most of Christendom. The disastrous result of the method is witnessed by the heresy, confusion everywhere it is used. That method is in fact what almost everyone believed in the primitive church and is the parent of the present theological confusion in the body of Christ. Examples of the claim that God at times falsified Scripture were common in the early church writings. It is often and especially seen in the writings of Origen (AD 185 254), one of the most prolific writers of the post apostolic times. Speaking of the writers of the Scriptures he said: “Scripture contains many contradictions, and many statements which are not literally true, but must be read spiritually and mystically. “…They proposed to speak the truth where it was their intention to prefer the spiritual to the material. The spiritual truth was often preserved, as one might say, in the material falsehood.” (Origen, Commentary on John, Anti Nicene Fathers, Hendrickson Pub., 1994. Vol. 9, p. 383). If a statement using normal words is not accepted as meaning what the writer said, then the only thing left are the inventions of those who deny what God has said. They have cast aside the only standard by which all conclusions must be decided which is the Holy Scriptures. If they ever read it they would do well to remember Paul’s statement to the Corinthians about his teaching (2 Cor. 1:13). The allegorical or metaphorical method of teaching according to Paul was contrary to sound biblical exegesis and according to the world’s wisdom. Why not let Paul instruct those who use the metaphorical method. “Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ” (Col. 2:8). In 2 Cor.1:13 Paul said: “...our dealings with you, have been absolutely aboveboard and sincere before God. They have not been marked by any worldly wisdom, but by the grace of God. Our letters to you have no double meaning-they mean just what you understand them to mean when you read them” (Phillips translation). “…we mean by our letters nothing else than what you read in them and understand us to mean” (Knox translation). “You don’t have to read between the lines of my letters; you can understand them.” (Moffatt. Translation). In His Grace Movingon |
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4 | The allegorical or metaphorical teaching | Not Specified | Movingon | 240391 | ||
There are upwards of 300 different Christian denominations in America supposedly coming from the same textbook; the Bible? The parent from which all heresy sprang and is still very much with us today in the pseudo interpretation of Scripture. In ordinary Christian conversation about understanding Scripture one often hears the term “spiritual interpretation,” without realizing it is not happenstance or a natural progression, but has roots in things that most are not acquainted with. The terms “allegorical,” “parabolical,” “metaphorical,” or the more common expression in layman terms, “spiritual,” have their roots in ancient history. They are by their very geneses a stumbling block to, and in direct opposition to understanding Divine revelation. The Oxford Classical Dictionary states: “Allegorical reading of works of literature-above all the mythological poems of Homer and Hesiod, decoded as accounts of the physical world or the truths of morality-seems to begin as early as the 6th cent, BC and to be an established (if controversial) practice by the end of the 5th.” It is almost inconceivable that rational people would or could approach the Scriptures with such foolishness in mind, yet that is precisely what those who use that method do. It should be axiomatic, if a normal literal statement doesn’t mean what is said, then, it has no meaning. If God indeed meant other than what is written, the entirely reasonable question could be asked concerning the misuse of Scripture, “How could God find fault with anyone, if He himself doesn’t mean what He says? From the heathen mystery religions came the belief that not only did almost every passage have a secret, mysterious and higher meaning, but that God had at times actually falsified even historical events and dates as Philo, an Alexandrian Jew (20 BC AD 50) a contemporary of Christ claimed. This was the method commonly taught by Philo, Barnabas, and later by Clement of Alexandria, who passed it on to his star pupil, Origen (185 254), who in AD 203 at the age of eighteen became head of the catechetical school of theology at Alexandria Egypt, which at that time was the world’s foremost Christian school. From the beginning that belief was established by the church leadership as the correct and legitimate method of teaching that would determine the course of church history and to a great extent world history for the next thirteen centuries until the Reformation. It paved the road to the dark ages for a thousand years and even until the present the same disastrous method is used more or less by most of Christendom. The disastrous result of the method is witnessed by the heresy, confusion everywhere it is used. That method is in fact what almost everyone believed in the primitive church and is the parent of the present theological confusion in the body of Christ. Examples of the claim that God at times falsified Scripture were common in the early church writings. It is often and especially seen in the writings of Origen (AD 185 254), one of the most prolific writers of the post apostolic times. Speaking of the writers of the Scriptures he said: “Scripture contains many contradictions, and many statements which are not literally true, but must be read spiritually and mystically. “…They proposed to speak the truth where it was their intention to prefer the spiritual to the material. The spiritual truth was often preserved, as one might say, in the material falsehood.” (Origen, Commentary on John, Anti Nicene Fathers, Hendrickson Pub., 1994. Vol. 9, p. 383). If a statement using normal words is not accepted as meaning what the writer said, then the only thing left are the inventions of those who deny what God has said. They have cast aside the only standard by which all conclusions must be decided which is the Holy Scriptures. If they ever read it they would do well to remember Paul’s statement to the Corinthians about his teaching (2 Cor. 1:13). The allegorical or metaphorical method of teaching according to Paul was contrary to sound biblical exegesis and according to the world’s wisdom. Why not let Paul instruct those who use the metaphorical method. “Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ” (Col. 2:8). In 2 Cor.1:13 Paul said: “...our dealings with you, have been absolutely aboveboard and sincere before God. They have not been marked by any worldly wisdom, but by the grace of God. Our letters to you have no double meaning-they mean just what you understand them to mean when you read them” (Phillips translation). “…we mean by our letters nothing else than what you read in them and understand us to mean” (Knox translation). “You don’t have to read between the lines of my letters; you can understand them.” (Moffatt. Translation). In His Grace Movingon |
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5 | Is Metaphorical teaching legitimate | Not Specified | Movingon | 240961 | ||
Is the allegorical or metaphorical method of teaching legitimate? Movingon |
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6 | WHATSOEVER YOU ASK THE FATHER | Bible general | Movingon | 240163 | ||
Two Scritpures have been mentioned. One was: “Are you still saved if you don't forgive?” And "…whatsoever you ask the father in my name you shall have so that the father... etc." The confusion on these passage from John 14:13-14 and other similar passages of Matt. 6:14-15 is because we are applying Scripture to the church that belongs to Israel in the earthly kingdom the Lord was offering. One of the benefits of dispensationalism is a proper separation of the covenants and dispensations which are missing here. Nowhere did the Lord ever in His earthly ministry directly mention the present assembly of Christ. Since they were offering a restoration of the Davidic kingdom (Kingdom from heaven) then we have a completely different set of promises, requirements and goals from the Old Covenant gospels. In Zech. 12:6-10 we read of Israel in the days of the kingdom and the miraculous power of some: “In that day I will make the governors of Judah like a firepan in the woodpile, and like a fiery torch in the sheaves; they shall devour all the surrounding peoples on the right hand and on the left, but Jerusalem shall be inhabited again in her own place Jerusalem. The Lord will save the tents of Judah first, so that the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem shall not become greater that of Judah. In that day the Lord will defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; the one who is feeble among them in that day shall be like David, and the house of David shall be like God, like the Angel of the Lord before them. It shall be in that day that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem. And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they have pierced; they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn”. Another among many is the confusion of the Lord’s words when He said: “But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.” Does that apply to us in this dispensation of grace? Years ago my barber an Armenian and I always discussed the Scriptures while he cut my hair and the forgiveness of sin came up and I asked him, if you sinned and before you confessed it what would happen? His immediate answer was: I would be lost. Well, we have the same problem about forgiving some ones sins such as the passage under consideration here if it applies to the present assembly of Christ. Again, we are mixing two different covenants, two different dispensations and a heavenly citizenship with an earthly one. Surely we can see the error of applying the gospels as New Testament and the gospel of the kingdom under the old Mosaic laws and Paul’s gospel of grace. It has been said that the gospels are an integral part of the New Testament. But Paul said of the Law which the Lord taught: “…the letter kills,” a “…ministry of death” and a “…ministry of condemnation” (2 Cor. 3:6-7, 9). Furthermore, twice (Gal. 1:8-9) Paul said of anyone who taught the necessity of keeping the law for salvation: “let them be accursed.” The very exact thing the Lord told a young man who asked what he had to do to have eternal life. He said to the young man: “…if you want to enter life, keep the commandments.” The Lord was only quoting what Moses wrote in Lev. 18:5. I told a man the Lord said the way to have eternal life was to keep the commandments. Then I told him Paul said if anyone taught that, “…let them be accursed. I Then asked him who are we to believe? And, is Paul contradicting the Lord? He had no answer. Then I explained to him that the Lord and Paul only taught what was required under the covenant in which they ministered, so there was no contradiction by either. Once on TV I was listening to what was supposed to be a minister of the gospel who said: “...the Lord and Paul did not always agree, so who are we to believe”? He then answered his own question: "...of course we believe the Lord.” With an audience of millions he had suggested that all the 14 epistles of Paul including the Hebrews letter could not be trusted. We have a similar problem with red letter bibles which suggests that the Lord’s words are more important than any other. Did Paul not say he was speaking the commandments of the Lord? (1 Cor. 14:37). Yet for some of my remarks it has been suggested elsewhere that I am a nitpicker and troublemaker. Well, I will leave that to the Lord. In His grace Movingon |
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7 | Is the allegorical or metaphorical metho | Bible general | Movingon | 240394 | ||
There are upwards of 300 different Christian denominations in America supposedly coming from the same textbook; the Bible? The parent from which all heresy sprang and is still very much with us today in the pseudo interpretation of Scripture. In ordinary Christian conversation about understanding Scripture one often hears the term “spiritual interpretation,” without realizing it is not happenstance or a natural progression, but has roots in things that most are not acquainted with. The terms “allegorical,” “parabolical,” “metaphorical,” or the more common expression in layman terms, “spiritual,” have their roots in ancient history. They are by their very geneses a stumbling block to, and in direct opposition to understanding Divine revelation. The Oxford Classical Dictionary states: “Allegorical reading of works of literature-above all the mythological poems of Homer and Hesiod, decoded as accounts of the physical world or the truths of morality-seems to begin as early as the 6th cent, BC and to be an established (if controversial) practice by the end of the 5th.” It is almost inconceivable that rational people would or could approach the Scriptures with such foolishness in mind, yet that is precisely what those who use that method do. It should be axiomatic, if a normal literal statement doesn’t mean what is said, then, it has no meaning. If God indeed meant other than what is written, the entirely reasonable question could be asked concerning the misuse of Scripture, “How could God find fault with anyone, if He himself doesn’t mean what He says? From the heathen mystery religions came the belief that not only did almost every passage have a secret, mysterious and higher meaning, but that God had at times actually falsified even historical events and dates as Philo, an Alexandrian Jew (20 BC AD 50) a contemporary of Christ claimed. This was the method commonly taught by Philo, Barnabas, and later by Clement of Alexandria, who passed it on to his star pupil, Origen (185 254), who in AD 203 at the age of eighteen became head of the catechetical school of theology at Alexandria Egypt, which at that time was the world’s foremost Christian school. From the beginning that belief was established by the church leadership as the correct and legitimate method of teaching that would determine the course of church history and to a great extent world history for the next thirteen centuries until the Reformation. It paved the road to the dark ages for a thousand years and even until the present the same disastrous method is used more or less by most of Christendom. The disastrous result of the method is witnessed by the heresy, confusion everywhere it is used. That method is in fact what almost everyone believed in the primitive church and is the parent of the present theological confusion in the body of Christ. Examples of the claim that God at times falsified Scripture were common in the early church writings. It is often and especially seen in the writings of Origen (AD 185 254), one of the most prolific writers of the post apostolic times. Speaking of the writers of the Scriptures he said: “Scripture contains many contradictions, and many statements which are not literally true, but must be read spiritually and mystically. “…They proposed to speak the truth where it was their intention to prefer the spiritual to the material. The spiritual truth was often preserved, as one might say, in the material falsehood.” (Origen, Commentary on John, Anti Nicene Fathers, Hendrickson Pub., 1994. Vol. 9, p. 383). If a statement using normal words is not accepted as meaning what the writer said, then the only thing left are the inventions of those who deny what God has said. They have cast aside the only standard by which all conclusions must be decided which is the Holy Scriptures. If they ever read it they would do well to remember Paul’s statement to the Corinthians about his teaching (2 Cor. 1:13). The allegorical or metaphorical method of teaching according to Paul was contrary to sound biblical exegesis and according to the world’s wisdom. Why not let Paul instruct those who use the metaphorical method. “Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ” (Col. 2:8). In 2 Cor.1:13 Paul said: “...our dealings with you, have been absolutely aboveboard and sincere before God. They have not been marked by any worldly wisdom, but by the grace of God. Our letters to you have no double meaning-they mean just what you understand them to mean when you read them” (Phillips translation). “…we mean by our letters nothing else than what you read in them and understand us to mean” (Knox translation). “You don’t have to read between the lines of my letters; you can understand them.” (Moffatt. Translation). In His Grace Movingon |
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8 | The allegorical or metaphorical teaching | Bible general | Movingon | 240392 | ||
There are upwards of 300 different Christian denominations in America supposedly coming from the same textbook; the Bible? The parent from which all heresy sprang and is still very much with us today in the pseudo interpretation of Scripture. In ordinary Christian conversation about understanding Scripture one often hears the term “spiritual interpretation,” without realizing it is not happenstance or a natural progression, but has roots in things that most are not acquainted with. The terms “allegorical,” “parabolical,” “metaphorical,” or the more common expression in layman terms, “spiritual,” have their roots in ancient history. They are by their very geneses a stumbling block to, and in direct opposition to understanding Divine revelation. The Oxford Classical Dictionary states: “Allegorical reading of works of literature-above all the mythological poems of Homer and Hesiod, decoded as accounts of the physical world or the truths of morality-seems to begin as early as the 6th cent, BC and to be an established (if controversial) practice by the end of the 5th.” It is almost inconceivable that rational people would or could approach the Scriptures with such foolishness in mind, yet that is precisely what those who use that method do. It should be axiomatic, if a normal literal statement doesn’t mean what is said, then, it has no meaning. If God indeed meant other than what is written, the entirely reasonable question could be asked concerning the misuse of Scripture, “How could God find fault with anyone, if He himself doesn’t mean what He says? From the heathen mystery religions came the belief that not only did almost every passage have a secret, mysterious and higher meaning, but that God had at times actually falsified even historical events and dates as Philo, an Alexandrian Jew (20 BC AD 50) a contemporary of Christ claimed. This was the method commonly taught by Philo, Barnabas, and later by Clement of Alexandria, who passed it on to his star pupil, Origen (185 254), who in AD 203 at the age of eighteen became head of the catechetical school of theology at Alexandria Egypt, which at that time was the world’s foremost Christian school. From the beginning that belief was established by the church leadership as the correct and legitimate method of teaching that would determine the course of church history and to a great extent world history for the next thirteen centuries until the Reformation. It paved the road to the dark ages for a thousand years and even until the present the same disastrous method is used more or less by most of Christendom. The disastrous result of the method is witnessed by the heresy, confusion everywhere it is used. That method is in fact what almost everyone believed in the primitive church and is the parent of the present theological confusion in the body of Christ. Examples of the claim that God at times falsified Scripture were common in the early church writings. It is often and especially seen in the writings of Origen (AD 185 254), one of the most prolific writers of the post apostolic times. Speaking of the writers of the Scriptures he said: “Scripture contains many contradictions, and many statements which are not literally true, but must be read spiritually and mystically. “…They proposed to speak the truth where it was their intention to prefer the spiritual to the material. The spiritual truth was often preserved, as one might say, in the material falsehood.” (Origen, Commentary on John, Anti Nicene Fathers, Hendrickson Pub., 1994. Vol. 9, p. 383). If a statement using normal words is not accepted as meaning what the writer said, then the only thing left are the inventions of those who deny what God has said. They have cast aside the only standard by which all conclusions must be decided which is the Holy Scriptures. If they ever read it they would do well to remember Paul’s statement to the Corinthians about his teaching (2 Cor. 1:13). The allegorical or metaphorical method of teaching according to Paul was contrary to sound biblical exegesis and according to the world’s wisdom. Why not let Paul instruct those who use the metaphorical method. “Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ” (Col. 2:8). In 2 Cor.1:13 Paul said: “...our dealings with you, have been absolutely aboveboard and sincere before God. They have not been marked by any worldly wisdom, but by the grace of God. Our letters to you have no double meaning-they mean just what you understand them to mean when you read them” (Phillips translation). “…we mean by our letters nothing else than what you read in them and understand us to mean” (Knox translation). “You don’t have to read between the lines of my letters; you can understand them.” (Moffatt. Translation). In His Grace Movingon |
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9 | Thithing loan | Bible general | Movingon | 241154 | ||
Hello beautybees! As Doc says: its hard to answer a incomplete question. However, I will try to be as enlightening as I can. To begin, we must understand one of the greatest problems in the church today which is, we have been misled by the translators in calling what is called The Gospels in the New Testament and therefore making church doctrine from them. The Lord was speaking to Israel about the Kingdom of David; and earthly kingdom and its restoration if they would repent and believe He was the Messiah the prophets spoke of. Israel at that time was yet under the Mosaic laws including the keeping of Ten Commandments and all other things Moses commanded. He said to His disciples one day: "The Scribes and Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. Therefore whatever they tell you to observe, that observe and do" (Matt. 23:2-3). Are we to do as the Pharisee say; keep the Sabbath, pay a tithe, and make animal sacrifices? Give a writing of divorce to our wife if she doesn’t please us. Without doubt, by questioning the paying of a tithe, some will respond by asking, are you saying we should not pay the pastor a salary? But it might be asked: where was it ever said by anyone that the pastor should be paid a tithe of our income? What is being said is, nowhere in the NT is it said that we are to give 10 percent of our income to anyone. The teaching of the apostle Paul who founded the present church and Dispensation of Grace never fixed any figure as to what believers are to give. He said we are to give freely as the Lord has blessed us, and according to our conscience. We are not under the Mosaic Law. Paul said to the Corinthians church: “So let each one give as he purposes in his own heart, not grudgingly or of necessity; for God loves a cheerful giver” (2 Cor. 9:7). If Paul believed we are to pay a tithe surely he would have mentioned it along with the above. Acts 15:28-29 give us the necessities for this dispensation where nothing is mentioned about a tithe, Sabbath keeping, or any such things. Is the church composed of 12 tribes? If as the Amillennialists claim, we are the new Israel, to be consistent then, the church should be divided into 12 tribes. The tithe for the 11 tribes was for the upkeep of the tribe of Levi, who had no allotment of land in Israel when it was divided. And to be even more consistent, where is the allotment of lands for the eleven tribes of the church? Are they in America, or Israel, or if we are the kingdom, the world? The irrational and ridiculous can easily be seen when we turn the Scriptures into such fantasies through the amillennial or dispensational teaching who both sanction the present division of the Old and New Covenants. If it were figuratively said that Abraham the father of the faithful including us referred to as the spiritual children of Abraham paid a tithe to Melchizedek, then we should do the same. Where did Abraham give any of his money? What Abraham gave was 10 percent of what he recovered that belonged to his nephew Lot, and the kings of Sodom and Gomorrah. Things that had been taken by king Chedorlaomer and those kings with him (Gen. 14:16-20). It is clear that that incident cannot be used as grounds for believers paying a tithe today. At the time the Lord ministered before the cross, the present assembly of Christ was yet a mystery (Eph. 3:1-9). No doubt my remarks will raise many questions that need to be answered. But I cannot answer a question that someone hasn’t asked. So please ask for an explanation of any whatever you wish and I will try to answer it. It might help if one read Gal. 2:2, 7-9 where Paul explained his gospel to the 12 before him. The meeting is amplified in Acts ch. 15 where the 12 gave their opinion of what kind of behavior is expected of us today; the Gentile believers. It is plain that in the above meeting of the 12 with Paul the 12 were yet offering the kingdom to Israel which we cannot do today and nowhere did they including Peter ever establish a Gentile church, that is what Paul was called for. And by the way, the New Covenant (Testament) started with the book of Acts (Heb. 9:14-22). Neither did Peter start the present assembly of Christ on the Day of Pentecost or any other day. In His grace Movingon |
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10 | Thithing loan | Bible general | Movingon | 241161 | ||
Hi Beja, after so long a time. I completely missed your response to an earlier post I made. Please forgive me. “You state that you do not believe the gospels apply to us, but do you believe the great commission of Matthew 28 was a commission to build the church or was it for the disciples to go out offering the kingdom? Perhaps said another way, when they went out making disciples and baptizing in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, was this building the church or the kingdom of that previous dispensation?” In Christ, Beja The so-called Great Commission was spoken to the disciples about and offering of the kingdom to Israel that they had been offering for the past three years. Again they were sent out beginning with the book of Acts to offer that same kingdom in the Great Commission. The present Dispensation of Grace and his gospel was given to Paul and began in Acts 13:2, 46-47 in AD 46-47 as stated by Paul in Eph. 3:1-9. I realize I have raised many questions in my posts and would be happy to send you with out charge two books by Email have written. I just offered a couple of books to kamschoolgrad that I wrote some years ago free of charge to anyone desiring them. When I again began posting in this study site I was accused of peddling my books. Well, if giving them away is peddling, then I am guilty. According to the instructions on what is allowable on this site I can offer them to anyone I choose without cost. I would be please to send them to anyone through email with Lockman’s gracious permission. There are more of your questions that space allows me to answer here, but there are two books I have written that more than covers all your question and much more. “Theological Heresies That Shaped World History.” Published by Robert C. Voiles, Copyright 2007. “Understanding the Biblical Rapture.” Published by Robert C. Voiles, Copyright 2007. Email for either or all to *** pilgrim1931@suddenlink.net. If so desired I can include a “Chronology of the Bible.” copyright 2007 by the same author. In His grace Movingon |
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11 | what happens when we die | Bible general Archive 4 | Movingon | 240970 | ||
A note to Jasper72. You preface your post about “These are verses of what will happen on JUDGEMENT DAY.” May I kindly say you are misusing Scriptures by applying them to people and times that is incorrect. In the heading question you say: “where will those of us who are saved go?” and use Lk. 16:19 as applying to the present assembly of Christ. The passage has nothing to do with us who’s citizenship is already in heaven which is not a metaphor. Paul does not use such divisive teaching. He said of his teaching to the Corinthian church (2 Cor. 1:13): “...our dealings with you, have been absolutely aboveboard and sincere before God. They have not been marked by any worldly wisdom, but by the grace of God. Our letters to you have no double meaning-they mean just what you understand them to mean when you read them” (Phillips translation). “…we mean by our letters nothing else than what you read in them and understand us to mean” (Knox translation). In the passage from Lk. 16:19 the Lord was speaking to Israel about those saved and preserved in Hades before His payment for their sins. They removed and taken to heaven with the Lord when He ascended Zech. 9:11. Technically speaking, according to Zech. 9:11 and Heb. 9:15-17 there was no deliverance from Hades or admission into heaven until after the cross where propitiation for sins was made. Paul speaks of when the Lord took those in paradise to heaven with Him when He ascended to heaven after His resurrection: When He ascended on high, He led captivity captive, and gave gifts to men." (Now this, "He ascended"--what does it mean but that He also first descended into the lower parts of the earth? He who descended is also the One who ascended far above all the heavens, that He might fill all things.) And He Himself gave some [to be] apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ (Eph. 4:8-12). Your use passages from what is called the Gospels that doen’t apply to us. That also includes your listings from Peter and the Revelation which were all written to Jews. They are about Israel and the Gentiles in and earthly kingdom from heaven. The Lord and disciples were offering the Kingdom from Heaven before and after the cross before the beginning of the present Dispensation of Grace given to Paul. We are a heavenly people who will return with the Lord and with Him judge the world and angles (1 Cor. 6:2-3). The only passages you used that apply to us were written by Paul after the Jews had rejected Christ a second time. We have already been judged and died with Christ and with Him born of the Spirit and raised from the dead never to die anymore Rom. 6:3-11, Heb. 9:28. “…Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes” (Rom. 10:4). “…who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee” (2 Cor. 1:22). “…and do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption” (Eph. 4:32). Your problem Jasper is the New covenant (Testament) does not begin until the book of Acts, and the present assembly of Christ and Dispensation of Grace began with Paul in Acts 13:2,46-47. The 12 apostles had nothing to do with the establishment of the present church or else Paul didn’t know what he was talking about (Eph. 3:1-9). Three times Paul said his gospel was a mystery (hidden) before revealed to him directly by the Lord. The Lord could not be speaking anywhere about the church or else Paul was mistaken when he said his gospel and the rapture was a mystery unrevealed before him. The Ephesians letter was written in AD 61, or 11 years after the Holy Spirit sent Paul to Jerusalem to explain his gospel to the apostles before him (Gal. 2:2,7-9). The Gentile churches begun by the Apostle Paul were unknown by the 12. The rapture was also a mystery because apart from the church, no other group is to be caught up into heaven. That is because ours is a heavenly home and citizenship, and explains why no one other than Paul mentions anything about the rapture. Paul said in Rom. 16:25; Eph. 3:4-5; Col. 1:24-27 that his gospel was a mystery to all the other apostles until he explained it to them in Gal. chap. 2:2,7-9 as already mentioned. I hope Jasper that I have not offended you or anyone by my words. I know I have raised questions by many with some of my remarks. But please let me know if anything I have said needs qualifications. In His grace Movingon |
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12 | what happens when we die | Bible general Archive 4 | Movingon | 241056 | ||
Hi Jasper! You have separated Hebrews 9:27 from v. 28 which say: “Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him” (NIV). You have taken v. 27 out of context with v.28 which proves you wrong. You don’t seem to realize that our sins are paid for in full or else Christ’s death as payment was not for all of them. We are accounted to have died with Christ and raised with Him who is alive forevermore. Rom. 6:3-7 says: “…don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life. For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we will certainly also be united with him in a resurrection like his. For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin—because anyone who has died has been set free from sin” (NIV trans). Christ did not say what you quoted from Hebrews. Paul wrote the Epistle to the Hebrews. Christ’s ministry was before the Law ended and the Holy Spirit was given to indwell us. You are mixing law and grace when you quote supposedly from Christ and apply them to Paul’s writing in this Dispensation of Grace. That’s a no-no. Until you separate the Covenant of the Ten Commandments which Christ taught from, from Paul’s writing it’s going to be confusion without end. Legally speaking, there is no forgiveness of sins unto salvation until Christ’s death and resurrection. Whether we are good or bad has nothing to do with being saved. The bottom line is, we must be born again of His Spirit into God’s family. The wages of sin is death and the only release from the penalty of sin is to be counted as having died with Christ as Paul shows in the quote from Rom 6 above. You say: “No person goes to heaven before judgement.” And that is correct, but what you seem to have missed is we were judged and have died with Christ for our sins. To be subjected to another judgment as those entering the kingdom at the Second Advent is the equivalent of double jeopardy; i.e., the subjecting of a person to a second trial and or punishment for the same offense for which the person has already been tried and punished having died with Christ in His death. Please do not be offended by my remarks Jasper, I am just trying to set some things straight from the Scriptures. In His Grace Movingon |
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13 | what happens when we die | Bible general Archive 4 | Movingon | 241058 | ||
In the Old Testament the Hebrew word Sheol identifies the retaining place of the spirit and soul of the deceased as when the Lord spoke of the rich man and Lazerus (Lk. 16:19-31). In Zech. 9:11 the Lord said of Israel’s New Covenant and those saved and preserved in Sheol: “…because of the blood of your covenant, I will set your prisoners free from the waterless pit.” That pit was described by the Lord in Lk. 16:19-31. The waterless pit was Sheol in the lower regions of the earth where Abraham and all who trusted God before the cross were preserved until their sins were paid for (Lk. 16:19-31). If I may be permitted to remind Doc, God said He would set His people free of Sheol. Which raises the question, if they did not go to heaven, where die they go? Paul speaks of their very deliverance when after the Lord’s death He descended into Sheol (Hades in Greek) and when He ascended and took those who had been prisoners until payment for their sins was accomplished. When He ascended on high, He led captivity captive, and gave gifts to men." (Now this, "He ascended"--what does it mean but that He also first descended into the lower parts of the earth? He who descended is also the One who ascended far above all the heavens, that He might fill all things.) And He Himself gave some [to be] apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ (Eph. 4:8-12). According to Paul the Lord Jesus Christ is going to bring from heaven those whose soul and spirit were taken out of Hades. He then took them up to heaven with the Him at His Ascension. At the rapture He comes to resurrect their physical bodies to be joined with their soul and spirit from heaven. Then together those yet living at that time will also be changed and taken to heaven with those who will be changed to have a glorious body the same as the Lord Himself yet living at that time. “For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus. For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words” (1 Thess. 4:13-18). Following are other passages showing soul’s in heaven. Ephesians 3:14-15 states, "For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named." “So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord. We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord” (2 Cor. 5:6-8). “When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held…”(Rev. (6:9). “Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed” (Rev. 6:11). "Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?" And I said to him, "Sir, you know." So he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. And I said to him, "Sir, you know." So he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb” (Rev. 7:13-14). In His grace Movingon |
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14 | Who are the Nephilim Giants | NT general | Movingon | 241200 | ||
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15 | Suffering...how do you endure it? | Job | Movingon | 241163 | ||
Answering justme In my own Christian experience especially in the latter years I don’t seem to have the problem I once had. In recent times I have experienced many miraculous things from the Lord that has very much strengthened my faith about such things Him personally showing me that He is concerned about my every need. In recent times I had a thyroid problem and a sonogram showed a fairly large nodule on each side of the thyroid so I was sent to the hospital for a biopsy. There I lay on the table in my short tail gown waiting for the worst while I prayed. The doctor went out of the room and came back with his assistant and took another look at the CD with my sonogram pictures. He stood there a few minutes looking at me, then he turned to his assistant and said: I would like to do my own sonogram. So they wheeled in a machine and checked me again. Then he said to me: I don’s see a nodule large enough to do a biopsy on, there isn’t any needed, just go on home. He even made the front office give me back my one hundred and seventy dollars co-payment back. So the short of it is, keep on praying and let the Lord handle problems larger than yourself. In His grace Movingon |
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16 | How many churches will be saved? | Matthew | Movingon | 241042 | ||
Hi JasperHi Jasper, about you mention of Matt. 16:18 and building His Church. Almost without exception all translations mistranslate the word "ekklesia" to Church which is incorrect. All the word means is assembly; of any kind. However, anyone can read v. 19 where he clarified the assembly when he said he would give Peter the keys to it which he said was the kingdom of heaven (which the church is not) that He and they had been offering for the past 3 years. I hope this helps Movingon |
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17 | How many churches will be saved? | Matthew | Movingon | 241049 | ||
Hi Beja, you say: However you may read this verse, at the end of the day "ekklesia" is in fact the word Scritpure uses for "church." For example, 1 Corinthians 1:2 addresses the letter "to the 'ekklesia' of God which is at Corinth." Yes, the word does mean "assembly" but "ekklesia" remains the word constantly used for the church. On that note I wonder about your interpretation of Hebrews 12:22-23 where he tells them they have already (perfect tense) come to the "ekklesia" of the firstborn? In Christ, Beja I read the verse with the meaning of “ekklesia.” I am aware of the word church and it’s supposed meaning which is “the called our ones.” And we can understand that indeed we are the called out ones. However, my point was to point out the truth that the called out ones of this dispensation of grace was not the ones the Lord was speaking of. If it was then Paul made an awful mistake when he said his gospel and this whole dispensation of grace was a mystery until given to him. And we are not the kingdom of heaven assembly the keys were to open. In Acts 19 three times ekklesia is used to describe a mob of rioting Ephesian Gentiles who were afraid the preaching of Christ by Paul was going to destroy the lucrative silversmith business of making images for the worship of the goddess Diana. In opposition to Paul, Demetrius, a silversmith, called together an “ekklesia,” correctly translated (assembly) when not applying to the church. To show the nonsense of their translation, most if asked what the word church means, explain that it has a meaning of “the called out ones” If the word church, simply means the “called out ones,” then the word ekklesia, translated “church” is just as appropriate when applied to the Ephesian idol worshiping mob who would have killed Paul, as when it is used to identify the present assembly of Christ. Would we say the idol worshipers were the “called out ones?” It is a clear example of the absurdity that we have been taught by those referred to as scholars who know better. Never once did the Lord name the present assembly of Christ in His earthly assembly By using what is called the Gospels as spoken to and about the present church we have all kinds of confusion. The Lord taught the law that Paul said was a ministry of condemnation and death (2 Cor. 3: 6-9) and we call it the good news. Read Matt. 19:16-17 and compare it with what Paul said about teaching the commandments as the way of life in Gal. 1:6-9 just like the Lord said to the young ruler. There could be no New Covenant until the book of Acts (Heb. 9:15-22). You say: “Yes, the word does mean "assembly" but "ekklesia" remains the word constantly used for the church.” And that is our problem. Are we to do as the Pharisees say since they sit in Moses seat? The Lord said: “The Scribes and Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. Therefore whatever they tell you to observe, that observe and do (Matt. 23:2-3).” And that is because we do not understand where the Old and New Testaments begin and end. We apply things to the church that was spoken to Israel who was under the law when the Lord spoke. One of our problems of understand so many things is, we are letting the church teach us rather than the Scriptures. I hope this helps Beja. Thanks for your response. Movingon |
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18 | How many churches will be saved? | Matthew | Movingon | 241071 | ||
Good morning Jasper. You said: "It sounds like you don't even know who christ is!" If you would, please identify the person you were addressing above. Movingon |
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19 | How many churches will be saved? | Matthew | Movingon | 241072 | ||
Hi Beja! You say: “However you may read this verse, at the end of the day "ekklesia" is in fact the word scritpure uses for "church." ” May I say, the Scriptures do not anywhere mention the word Church. The word “Church” was incorrectly added by the translators because they believed the Lord was speaking of the present assembly of Christ. He was speaking of giving Peter the keys to the Kingdom of Heaven which He named in the very next verse (19). The present assembly of Christ is not the Kingdom of Heaven or any other kingdom or nation but a part of the universal Kingdom of God. In His grace Movingon |
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20 | How many churches will be saved? | Matthew | Movingon | 241084 | ||
Jasper asks: How many churches will be saved? The question is self defeating. I am told by just about everybody the word church means: “the called out ones.” That would mean God has called out certain people to be saved. So it is apart from reason to ask how many will be saved if they are the called out ones. Perhaps you are asking about the different Christian denominations; if they are saved by what they believe and teach. It would be helpful for you to explain just what you mean. In His grace Movingon |
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