Results 1 - 4 of 4
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Results from: Notes Author: xchngdlife Ordered by Date |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Releases from tithing 10 per cent? | 2 Cor 9:7 | xchngdlife | 22618 | ||
Johnny, Thanks for your response. Let me begin by saying that I believe that we are no longer under law, but under a new dispensation---grace. Furthermore, I do believe tithing was part of the mosaic law and also before the law was established(Abraham tithed to Melchizedek). We are now taught to give freely according to 2 Cor 8-9. So, I believe we are together on the issue of giving. As far as my 2nd question: I understand that the gr word diatheke can be translated as both testament or covenant and are basically synoyms. Either of which could be used in Matt. 26:28; Mark 14:24; Luke 22:20; 1 cor. 11:25; 2 cor. 3:6; Heb. 8:8,13; 12:24. All of these passages speak of Gods new plan through Jesus. Now I realize that the Words "New Testament" are on a blank white piece of paper right before Matt. chapter 1. What we must realize is that this is an addition made by our friendly greek scholars to make a division clear. Just as the punctuation, chapters and verses have been submitted into the text for clarity we have labeled Matt. thru Rev. as the New Testament. As a result, many new and older christians have mistakenly concluded that if its in one of the 4 gospels then it must pertain to me as a believer. Nothing could be further from the truth. Have you ever been reading in one of the gospels and trying to interpret it through "grace glasses" and found yourself trying to reconcile what Christ said and what the epistles say. For example, Jesus said, "Matt 6:14- For if you forgive others for their transgressions, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. Matt 6:15- But if you do not forgive others, then your Father will not forgive your transgressions. In Eph 4:32 Paul states,"Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you". When you look at these two vs. there is an unmistakable contradiction. One says if you don't forgive then as a result your father will not forgive you. Think about that for a sec, could that be a truth under grace? By no means! We have been forgiven (past tense) and sanctified by that blood. Now on the other side, we have Paul saying that we should forgive others because Christ has forgiven you. This is because we have a true dividing line that seperates these teachings and that is the cross. When I am defending free will giving I do not refer to the gospels because it is the teachings after the cross that I apply to my life. This understanding of law and grace has really free me from confusion and a lack of understanding of who I have become in Christ. Hope this helps, Michael |
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2 | Releases from tithing 10 per cent? | 2 Cor 9:7 | xchngdlife | 22508 | ||
Johnny, Below is my conclusion in my last post. "In conclusion, when we are looking for new testament truth for the believer, we need to look according to scripture written after the cross. The tithing issue is never discussed after the cross, but as 2 cor 9:7 states we are to give freely and generously and with a smile on our face and hearts." My whole point is summed up in the last line. If you want to prove that tithing is not for the believer then why ask to see if Jesus said that we should do it? This is my point! The new covenant did not begin until after the cross, not at the beginning of the gospels. Therefore, even if those that you are discussing this issue on this site come up with a verse where Jesus teaches us to tithe, we must consider wether it is new covenant or old. Why? Because, again, the cross is the dividing line of the old and the new. As you have stated before---we are not under the law of Moses(old covenant) but under the law of grace(New covenant) Could you in your reponse answer this question? Where do you believe the new covenant begins? Thank you for being patient with me! Forgiven forever, Michael |
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3 | Releases from tithing 10 per cent? | 2 Cor 9:7 | xchngdlife | 22439 | ||
Johnny, My point is that the new covenant does not start with Matthew 1, but in Acts 1. Religious tradition teaches that the new covenant begins in the gospels, however, Jesus seems to disagree acccording to Luke 22:20 "And in the same way He took the cup after they had eaten, saying, "This cup which is poured out for you is the (new covenant) in My blood". His death on the cross where He shed his blood is the beginning of the New agreement. I will address the other verses that I listed below. Gal 4:4 "But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law, Gal 4:5 so that He might redeem those who were under the Law, that we might receive the adoption as sons." Jesus was born under the law and taught the law to unregenerate people. You see they needed to be buried by the law so that they would come to Him for their salvation. (Gal 3:24 Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith.) And guess what it is still doing it today. Johnny, Jesus magnified the law by making it perfectly clear that they would never live up to the perfect requirements established by the law. Jesus often raised standards that where impossible to obtain such as, "therefore you are to be perfect, as you heavenly Father is perfect". He was speaking to people who could not have been born again because He had not gone to the cross yet. Heb 9:15 "For this reason He is the mediator of a new covenant, so that, since a death has taken place for the redemption of the transgressions that were committed under the first covenant, those who have been called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance. Heb 9:16 For where a covenant is, there must of necessity be the death of the one who made it. Heb 9:17 For a covenant is valid only when men are dead, for it is never in force while the one who made it lives. Heb 9:18 Therefore even the first covenant was not inaugurated without blood" See, Christ's death on the cross was the beginning of the new agreement. Before that glorious moment, Jesus had been intensifying the true meaning of the law and proglaimed the solution to man's problem. That problem is our inability to fulfill the requirements of the written code, Jesus lived it perfectly and, as a result, we can now be identified with that perfection through Him. Rom 8:3 "For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, Rom 8:4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit." In conclusion, when we are looking for new testament truth for the believer, we need to look according to scripture written after the cross. The tithing issue is never discussed after the cross, but as 2 cor 9:7 states we are to give freely and generously and with a smile on our face and hearts. Forgiven forever at the cross, Michael |
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4 | Releases from tithing 10 per cent? | 2 Cor 9:7 | xchngdlife | 22283 | ||
Johnny and fellow believers in Christ, First, I would like to let you know, Johnny, that I agree with you on the issue of tithing. However, one thing I have noticed throughout this whole discussion of tithing is that we are searching for our answer in the old covenant. Let me clarify that statement, in the search for new covenant truth we are using the gospels to clarify a epistle question. Let me ask you a question. Where does the New covenant begin? You might be thinking that I am coming from left field right now. Well, I believe that to tackle the issue we must first establish the dividing line. Here are some scriptures to consider while you develop your answer. Gal 4:4 But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law, Gal 4:5 so that He might redeem those who were under the Law, that we might receive the adoption as sons. Luke 22:19 And when He had taken some bread and given thanks, He broke it and gave it to them, saying, "This is My body which is given for you; do this in remembrance of Me." Luke 22:20 And in the same way He took the cup after they had eaten, saying, "This cup which is poured out for you is the (new covenant) in My blood. Heb 9:15 For this reason He is the mediator of a new covenant, so that, since a death has taken place for the redemption of the transgressions that were committed under the first covenant, those who have been called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance. Heb 9:16 For where a covenant is, there must of necessity be the death of the one who made it. Heb 9:17 For a covenant is valid only when men are dead, for it is never in force while the one who made it lives. Heb 9:18 Therefore even the first covenant was not inaugurated without blood May the Holy Spirit lead you into all truth! Forgiven forever, Michael |
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