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Results from: Notes Author: thisbabbler Ordered by Date |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Proverbs 8 Wisdom Equals Jesus | Prov 8:22 | thisbabbler | 131493 | ||
Notice the concluding verses 34-36. You are wise to use cross-references, and to be open to where God's spirit leads you. Do not allow yourself to be intimidated by any that may be able to quote the Bible better than yourself, but confirm all things Scripturally. Remember, Jesus' disciples were not scholars, but had the right attitude that caused the Father to draw them. (John 6:44) This is the only way one gains accurate knowledge. Paul spoke of those in the "last days" that are "always learning but never able to acknowledge the truth." (2 Tim 3:1,7) 34 Blessed is the man who listens to me, watching daily at my doors, waiting at my doorway. Matt 24:33,42: "Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door. Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come." James 5:9: "Don't grumble against each other, brothers, or you will be judged. The Judge is standing at the door!" 35 For whoever finds me finds life and receives favor from the LORD . John 3:36: "Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him." John 14:6: "Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." John 17:3: "Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent." 36 But whoever fails to find me harms himself; all who hate me love death." Acts 13:46: "Then Paul and Barnabas answered them boldly: "We had to speak the word of God to you first. Since you reject it and do not consider yourselves worthy of eternal life, we now turn to the Gentiles." Matt 25:46: "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life." You may have read these in connection with Proverbs 8 already, and no doubt, have considered many others that I have failed to list. We must remember John's sobering words as we search for truth: "We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one." (1 John 5:19) Happy treasure hunting! (Prov 2:4) |
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2 | How to determine if 2 or 1 | John 8:17 | thisbabbler | 130866 | ||
John 10:30 has long been used to support the trinity, even though at John 17:21, 22, Jesus prayed regarding his followers: “That they may all be one,” and he added, “that they may be one even as we are one.” He used the same Greek word (hen) for “one” in all these instances. Obviously, Jesus’ disciples do not all become part of the Trinity. But they do come to share a oneness of purpose with the Father and the Son, the same sort of oneness that unites God and Christ. Paul also used the same expression for "one" at 1 Cor 3:8 regarding Apollos and himself. John 8:17 shows Jesus indicating that he and God are not one, but two that bear witness. I've heard some rather weak arguments in attempting to overlook the obvious meaning of John 10:30 and 8:17, necessitated on the rendering of John 1:1. Put that verse aside and all that's left is John 20:28; however, verse 17 shows even the doubter did not mean to say Jesus was his God. What did he mean? While one cannot be certain, God's words to Moses at Ex 7:1 and 4:16 are enlightening. Many translators insert "like" or "as" God, or fail to capitalize the "G" in order to interpret for the reader, but literally, God made Moses God to Aaron and Pharaoh. Now Tom saw that God made Jesus "as God" or "God" to him! Moses told of the importance of realizing this fact at Deut 18:14-19: verse 19 states "If anyone does not listen to my words that the prophet speaks in my name, I myself will call him to account."Yes, God's prophet that He sent to speak in God's name, not God himself however.See Edgar Goodspeed's American Translation for his rendering of John 1:1 then ask why the difference. Good translation considers the original language text and grammar rules, in context with the surrounding verses and the entire Bible. The overwhelming Scriptural evidence is that Jesus is the son of God and not God. This fact is supported by the correct translation of John 1:1 in context with John's Gospel and the entire word of God. In other words, the trinity texts are a thimble full of murky water compared to the pristine ocean of the Bible.I would list all the verses that show Jesus was sent, raised up, taught, obeyed, prayed to and worshiped the only true God, but it would be far too unwieldy. | ||||||
3 | Father greater than Jesus | John 14:28 | thisbabbler | 130865 | ||
The Good News Bible-Today's English Version in the latter part of the verse reads: “the blood of his own [Son].” Although the 1953 printing of Revised Standard Version RS reads “with his own blood,” the 1971 edition reads “with the blood of his own Son.” The Emphasised Bible (1897), Joseph B. Rotherham simply reads “the blood of his own.” Which rendering(s) agree with 1 John 1:7, which says: “The blood of Jesus his [God’s] Son cleanses us from all sin”? (See also Revelation 1:4-6.) As stated in John 3:16, did God send his only-begotten Son, or did he himself come as a man, so that we might have life? It was the blood, not of God, but of his Son that was poured out. So whose blood was Paul referring to? God's son, Jesus Christ, of course. Nothing in Paul's letters indicates that he thought otherwise. "May the God who gives endurance and encouragement give you a spirit of unity among yourselves as you follow Christ Jesus, so that with one heart and mouth you may glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ." (Rom 15:5,6) |
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4 | Father greater than Jesus | John 14:28 | thisbabbler | 130793 | ||
At Mark 12:29, Jesus quotes Deut 6:4: Jehovah our God is one Jehovah. Psalm 110:1 states that Jehovah said to my Lord (Jesus). To conclude that Jesus is Jehovah from Scripture is mind-boggling to me. Some I've spoke to say that Jehovah is the Father, while others have said Jehovah is the name of all three. Both groups are trinitarians! |
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5 | Father greater than Jesus | John 14:28 | thisbabbler | 130791 | ||
At 10:33, the interlinear reading of The Emphatic Diaglott says “a god” rather than "God." Support for the rendering “a god” is found principally in Jesus’ own answer, in which he quoted from Psalm 82:1-7. As can be seen, this text did not refer to persons as being called “God,” but “gods” and “sons of the Most High.” This argument would carry little weight if Jesus had to defend against calling himself God. John 5:18 says they claimed Jesus was "making himself equal to God," still never saying that he claimed to be God. The conclusions must be drawn, not from what the sons of the Devil say, but what the Son of God says. I will research your previous posts on the Holy Spirit for future interactions. Thanks. |
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6 | Father greater than Jesus | John 14:28 | thisbabbler | 130781 | ||
Unorthodoxy is in the eye of the beholder. From my perspective, much of mainstream Christendom's doctrine is unorthodox when compared to the established recorded truth of the Bible. What subjects are open to discussion and will not result in a commentor being threatened with banishment? |
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7 | Father greater than Jesus | John 14:28 | thisbabbler | 130773 | ||
I would not be too quick to draw any conclusions that mirror the Pharisees. These men did not even perceive he was the Messiah! Jesus was convicted of sedition, but you don't believe he truly was a seditionist, do you? When Jesus stated that he did nothing of his own originality, but only what the Father taught him, this would have immediately removed any thoughts that Jesus was claiming to be God. They claimed he was making himself equal with God, but Jesus said he was not. (John 14:28) |
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8 | Father greater than Jesus | John 14:28 | thisbabbler | 130772 | ||
One of the many "roles" of the holy spirit is to glorify the Son. But does this make it God? Ananias "lied" or attempted to deceive by falsehood, the holy spirit. This can apply to words or actions, from a root that means untrue, i.e. erroneous, deceitful or wicked. (Strong's Concordance) Persons that operate from the position that holy spirit is a person do so because of the personification of it by Jesus when speaking of it. They go so far as to view descriptive titles as Comforter and Helper as personal names. But if one operates from the position that holy spirit is God's power, then one can still see how Ananias could "lie" of attempt to deceive the holy spirit. God's power had supported the arrangement of these disciples and now Ananias sought to work around it. When one sins against the holy spirit, he sins against God, thus it's worse than a sin against Jesus. (Matt 12:32) Wisdom is personified at Proverbs 8. People are aware of this poetic usage. But Solomon was not just being poetic. This "wisdom" as Master Worker was fond of the sons of men. People don't want to admit that these verses describe Jesus, including his beginning. I've learned that they do understand the concept of an inanimate object being spoken of as a person, but when to make a literal application and when not is the tricky part. My method is to let the overwhelming weight of Scripture dictate. The holy spirit can only be viewed as a thing, used by God to accomplish his will - not to be worshiped as His equal being. |
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9 | Father greater than Jesus | John 14:28 | thisbabbler | 130763 | ||
Can't quite agree with the "unity in nature" being in view here, but thanks for your comments. Doesn't 1 Cor 15:28 address the relationship between the Father and Son throughout eternity? I just responded to Country Girl re: John 8:17, and this is another example of 2 rather than 3 persons being referred to. For me, such lack of Scriptural content begs consideration. I think of my Catholic background, and how that church worships Mary when the NT writers barely even mention her. With nothing close to worship ever being mentioned in connection with the holy spirit, it seems strange that it was elevated to God status. Can these concerns be addressed? |
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10 | Are Jesus and God 2 or 1? | John 8:17 | thisbabbler | 130756 | ||
"Jesus was saying that He and Father are one Being. That is they think alike. Their priorities are one and in perfect harmony." There is a world of difference between "one Being" and 'thinking alike' and 'having one priority.' Mk 13:32 shows distinctions between the Father, Son and the angels, but does not include the Holy Spirit. In fact, Scriptures referring to the 3 together are negligible, especially when compared to those that speak of the Father and Son. This is telling. |
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11 | Father greater than Jesus | John 14:28 | thisbabbler | 130746 | ||
"So, during His incarnation, God the Father was greater. Jesus was in fact subordinate to God the Father during this time. However, this was not an eternal distinction." I've heard this argument often. If true, doesn't that mean all that Jesus said must be understood in this light? For example, John 10:30 could not mean equality as some suggest, but must mean one in purpose. Also, doesn't 1 Cor 15:28 show that the subordinate position of the son will continue: "When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all." |
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12 | Are Jesus and God 2 or 1? | John 8:17 | thisbabbler | 130733 | ||
And God's blessing on the "church" were so evident at the time and during the centuries to follow. History really is enlightening! | ||||||
13 | Are Jesus and God 2 or 1? | John 8:17 | thisbabbler | 130732 | ||
John 10:30 says Jesus and God are one what? Whatever the answer is here, then that's the "what" I'm asking regarding John 8:17. | ||||||
14 | Are Jesus and God 2 or 1? | John 8:17 | thisbabbler | 130413 | ||
Brilliance is in the eye of the beholder. The history of these councils is interesting. One can see the development of the trinity dogma as it unfolded by comparing the creeds that resulted from some of the more famous ones. |
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15 | Are Jesus and God 2 or 1? | John 8:17 | thisbabbler | 130405 | ||
I wonder if he understood what it was he professed to believe or was it mere credulity based on his and other's philisophical theorizing. I certainly could never understand it! And that's the best and most concise you've read. I'm of the strong opinion that if we have to be theologians like this fellow in order to come to a full understanding of truth, God is less than just. May that never be so! |
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16 | More evidence in the rulership case. | 1 Sam 8:7 | thisbabbler | 130388 | ||
Serve God with eternity in view, not for a date that, as you say, no one knows. However, live each day as it might be your last, for after stating the above, he states the course for his disciples: "Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come." Matt 24:42) Why would he give all this information about how to recognize his coming (presence) and then in effect say: But don't worry about any of this because you'll never be able to figure out when you're even getting close to "the day." No, rather he says: "Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door." (Matt 24:32,33) Yes, the season would be discernable! Funny thing about Jesus reference to Noah and Lot's day, rather than recalling how immoral or violent they were (and people are at least as much so today), he mentions there ignoring the time of their inspection as they go about mundane things like eating, drinking and marrying. A lot of people will be overtaken by the tribulation, perhaps none more that those that expected to be spared the last dreadful days of this ungodly world by "rapture." Rev 16:15: "Behold, I come like a thief! Blessed is he who stays awake and keeps his clothes with him, so that he may not go naked and be shamefully exposed." |
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17 | Can the soul actually be destroyed? | Matt 10:28 | thisbabbler | 130387 | ||
Gen 2:7: And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. 1 Cor 15:45: And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. Soul means the same in Hebrew and Greek: an animal or human; or the life of either. God told Adam after his sinning: In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return. (Gen 3:19) Even if one disagrees with the Bible, that Adam received a soul rather than him being a soul, one has to ask where did the soul come from and what happened to Adam's? Did God leave out vital info to Adam's decision-making - I thought he said I would die, but now he tells me I'll be punished forever. Maybe I would have decided differently had I known that! Death is the opposite of life. There's no life in the dust. No where in the Bible does it say the soul is immortal. It says destruction is eternal - the second death is permanant. Hades will be thrown in the lake of fire, which signifies total destruction. Gehenna, the local garbage heap was treated with sulpher to keep stench minimal. But nothing living was thrown in Gehenna! And nothing was coming out because it was reduced to ashes. The only confusing thing to people is the word "torment," (Rev 14:11) and this is figurative. 2 Thes 1:9 and Eccl 9:5 and fundamental truths in which other verses must be understood, just like Gen 2:7. |
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18 | Is this a lottery? | Rev 20:6 | thisbabbler | 130385 | ||
Jesus quoted Hosea 10:8 regarding apostate Israel's attitude when God's wrath would come - looking to the surrounding pagan nations, "mountains and hills" to cover or protect them. We know how that turned out. Luke 23:30: Then they will say to the mountains, "Fall on us!" and to the hills, "Cover us!" Rev 6:16: They called to the mountains and the rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! These passages show that those who do not know and look to God's Kingdom for salvation, but look to the political, economic or false religious institutions for protection will be destroyed. Matt 24:14: And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come. Rev 12:10: Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say: "Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of his Christ. Matt 6:9,10: "This, then, is how you should pray: "Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name, your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven." |
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19 | More evidence in the rulership case. | 1 Sam 8:7 | thisbabbler | 130317 | ||
When Satan told Eve that eating from the tree would lead to a better life than obedience to God, God started the period during which he would allow man to experience the error in such rejection of his sovereignty. His allowing this "stiff-necked" people to now try a political ruler was a further exercise of his patience in resolving this issue. We could also say that man has had 6,000 plus years to experiment with every form of government, economic system, and philosophies on life. In this 21st century we can send a man to the moon, but its unsafe to walk the streets of many places on earth! We plan ways to cultivate life on other planets when our own is being threatened. The time is at hand when this universal court case will be decided. Yahweh is the righteous and rightful sovereign, having the right to decide right and wrong for his creatures. Soon he will intervene to annihilate all opposers to his Kingdom by his appointed ruler, Jesus, for the everlasting benefit of those who love his ways. |
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20 | Is this a lottery? | Rev 20:6 | thisbabbler | 130310 | ||
I do think "the church" will go thru the tribulation as stated at Rev 7:14 as well.I also believe as the "reader of hearts," God will determine at Armaggedon who would have responded to the good news if they had had opportunity and spare them. Likewise, any that died without the opportunity will be among the unrighteous to be resurrected during the Millenium. All, however, will not "come to life," that is receive eternal life, until after the 1,000 when Satan has been released for the final test. Of course, those of the first or "better" resurrection are rulers with Christ so they do not undergo this test.I brought this subject up to highlight God's awesome justice - superlative mercy, but not without punishment for the incorrigible. "And what does the LORD require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God." (Micah 6:8)Meditating on God's perfect justice helps us to "act justly." Thanks for your comments. Take care. |
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