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Results from: Notes Author: rstrats Ordered by Date |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Three Days and Three Nights | Bible general Archive 4 | rstrats | 243102 | ||
DocTrinsograce, re: "Rstats, your perspicuity is not at issue..." I never said that is was. I said that it was a lack of understanding by the responders to this topic; and that their lack of understanding must be due to my inability to explain the question. |
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2 | Three Days and Three Nights | Bible general Archive 4 | rstrats | 243098 | ||
justme, re: "Apparently the very same people who answered you four years ago still have not provided you with a satisfactory answer, but they keep pleasantly trying to help you to the best of their ability." re: "I honestly believe if they has a better answer they would be pleased to give you a better answer." re: "You definitely seem to have become part of the SBF, and trust us enough to seek often if we have found out anything new." re: "I think as we have really reached out to you to honestly replied as best as possible." re: "...I will get in contact with some Hebrew Scholars I know of and see what they have to say." From those comments, it seems apparent that I'm not articulate enough to formulate a question in such a way that its meaning is clear. So I shall move on and not do anymore pestering. |
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3 | Three Days and Three Nights | Bible general Archive 4 | rstrats | 243097 | ||
EdB, re: " Never said it did. What it explained was how Jesus was actually in the grave 3 days and 3 nights with no need for manufactured idioms, understandings, or first century thought." That's an issue for another topic. Perhaps you could start one if you're interested in discussing it. |
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4 | Three Days and Three Nights | Bible general Archive 4 | rstrats | 243094 | ||
EdB, re: "Did you even consider the answer I gave to you on 3/13/2013? I did, and I don't see where it provided actual instances from the first century or before where a daytime or a night time was said to be involved with an event when no part of the daytime or no part of the night time could have taken place. |
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5 | Three Days and Three Nights | Bible general Archive 4 | rstrats | 243092 | ||
DocTrinsograce, re: "Your persistence may yet yield the particular answer you want." Well, in over 10 years of querying folks who say that Matthew 12:40 is employing common idiomatic language, none have provided any examples which allow them to legitimately make the assertion. Nevertheless, during the next 10 years there may be someone who can support their position. Fortunately I'm in no hurry. re: "So tell me, with such unflagging perseverance to know this thing: which of the commentators, scholars, or teachers have you studied in that time?" For the purpose of this topic I'm not concerned with studying anything. I'm merely asking someone who says that Matthew 12:40 is using idiomatic language to support their assertion by providing examples from the period which show that a daytime or a night time was said to be involved with an event when no part of the daytime or no part of the night time could have occurred. re: "So as we have patiently answered your question over the years..." I've missed it if you have. How about pointing out the post/s? re: "...please reward us with some of what you have gleaned." I've gleaned that so far no one has provided any examples to support their assertion. |
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6 | Three Days and Three Nights | Bible general Archive 4 | rstrats | 243089 | ||
Since it's been awhile, perhaps someone new looking in will know of some examples. | ||||||
7 | Three Days and Three Nights | Bible general Archive 4 | rstrats | 242996 | ||
I should also add ...and who thinks that the "heart of the earth" is referring to the tomb. | ||||||
8 | Three Days and Three Nights | Bible general Archive 4 | rstrats | 242909 | ||
With the new year upon us, maybe there will be someone new looking in who knows of examples as requested in the OP and clarified in further posts. And again, remember that the purpose of this topic is not to discuss how long the Messiah was in the heart of the earth. As stated, there are other topics that do that. However, there are those who say that Matthew 12:40 is using common Jewish idiomatic language. But in order to say that it was common, one would have to know of other instances where the same pattern had to have been used. I am simply looking for some of those instances, scriptural or otherwise. So far no one has come forth with any. | ||||||
9 | Three Days and Three Nights | Bible general Archive 4 | rstrats | 242260 | ||
DocTrisograce, re: "Yikes!" It appears you have a problem with something I've posted. I wonder if you might explain? |
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10 | Documentation Request | Bible general Archive 4 | rstrats | 242252 | ||
No I haven't. Do you know for a fact that your references show where a daytime or a night time was counted as a daytime or a night time when no part of the daytime or no part of the night time actually occurred? | ||||||
11 | Three Days and Three Nights | Bible general Archive 4 | rstrats | 242251 | ||
No I haven't. Do you know for a fact that your references show where a daytime or a night time was counted as a daytime or a night time when no part of the daytime or no part of the night time actually occurred? | ||||||
12 | Cornelius and Acts 10:30 | Acts 10:30 | rstrats | 242248 | ||
EdB re: "...we don't know if there may have been a time lapse between verse 16 and 17." If the translation "4 days ago" is correct then there would have to be an extra unmentioned day involved. It might be interesting to note, though, that at least 5 translations/versions say "3 days ago". |
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13 | Documentation Request | Bible general Archive 4 | rstrats | 241964 | ||
Someone new looking in may know of some writing. | ||||||
14 | Documentation Request | Bible general Archive 4 | rstrats | 240609 | ||
DocTrinsograce, re: "Shifting your attention to other things, will be the evidence of a genuine desire for truth." How will shifting my attention to other things provide the truth about the assertion that Matthew 12:40 is using common Jewish idiomatic language? |
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15 | Documentation Request | Bible general Archive 4 | rstrats | 240496 | ||
Perhaps a rewording of the OP will make it a little more clear: Whenever the three days and three nights of Matthew 12:40 is brought up in a “discussion” with 6th day crucifixion folks, they frequently argue that it is a common Jewish idiom for counting any part of a day as a whole day. I wonder if anyone (who thinks that the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week and who thinks that the "heart of the earth" means the tomb) knows of any writing that shows that a phrase stating a specific number of days and/or a specific number of nights was ever used in the first century or before when it absolutely couldn't have included at least parts of each one of the specific number of days and at least parts of each one of the specific number of nights? |
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16 | Documentation Request | Bible general Archive 4 | rstrats | 240309 | ||
Since it has again been awhile, perhaps someone new looking in will know of some writing. | ||||||
17 | Documentation Request | Bible general Archive 4 | rstrats | 237542 | ||
Moran61, re: "I was reviewing one of the articles that Doc provided for you, and it did indeed include historical references to the practice of counting any part of a day as a full day." Indeed it did, but that is not what I am looking for. As regards the Jewish practice of counting any part of a calendar day as a whole calendar day I would agree, but when "nights" is added to "days" to yield the phrase "X days AND X nights" it normally refers to a measurement of a time period where "day" refers to the light portion of a 24 hour period and "night"refers to the dark portion of a 24 hour period. No one In the history of apologetics as far as I know has ever presented any historical documentation that the phrase X days AND X nights was a unique first century idiom of Hebrew/Aramaic/Greek which could mean something different than what the phrase means in English.. If you have such documentation, I would very much like to see it. That is what the OP is requesting. re: "The Jerusalem Talmud quotes rabbi Eleazar ben Azariah, who lived around A.D. 100, as saying: 'A day and night are an Onah [‘a portion of time’] and the portion of an Onah is as the whole of it' (from Jerusalem Talmud: Shabbath ix. 3, as quoted in Hoehner, 1974, pp. 248-249..." Azariah's interpretation of the meaning of the phrase, "A day and a night make an Onah, and a part of an Onah is as the whole" doesn't seem to make any sense. On the one hand he is saying that a day AND a night define an Onah and then he turns right around and says that a day OR a night define an Onah. What makes more sense is that the rabbi is saying that a day is an Onah and a night is an Onah but that any part of a day can be counted as a whole day and any part of a night can be counted as a whole night. And that interpretation is supported by Rabbi Ismael, Rabbi Jochanan, and Rabbi Akiba, contemporaries of Azariah, who all agree that an onah was 12 hours long, either a day OR a night. "Commentary on the New Testament from the Talmud and Hebraica". Also, a definition of Onah from "The Jerusalem Center for Advanced Torah Study" says: "The word onah literally means 'time period.' In the context of the laws of niddah, it usually refers to a day or a night. Each 24-hour day thus consists of two onot. The daytime onah begins at sunrise (henetz hachamah, commonly called netz) and ends at sunset (shekiat hachamah or shekiah). The night-time onah lasts from sunset until sunrise." re: "This article also lists several great examples of this practice from Scripture...http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/570" I'm sorry, but I don't see where the link shows an actual use of a phrase from the first century or before where a period of time is stated to consist of a specific number of days and/or a specific number of nights where the period absolutely couldn't have included at least a part of each one of the specific number of days and at least a part of each one of the specific number of nights. |
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18 | Documentation Request | Bible general Archive 4 | rstrats | 237529 | ||
Since it's been awhile, perhaps someone new looking in will know of some writing. | ||||||
19 | Documentation Request | Bible general Archive 4 | rstrats | 236360 | ||
Perhaps someone new looking in will know of some writing. | ||||||
20 | Disputed Ending of Mark 16 | Mark 16:9 | rstrats | 235988 | ||
you, re: "groups.yahoo.com/group/textualcriticsm/message/6651" Once again your link doesn't identify a published author who argues for a change of observance from the seventh day of the week to the first day due to the idea of a first day resurrection, and who supports a first day resurrection with Mark 16:9. |
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