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Results from: Notes Author: nivlac5 Ordered by Date |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Do Jesus and Paul agree on salv by faith | NT general Archive 1 | nivlac5 | 92759 | ||
Joe,I am not sure if your were addressing me. But, to briefly answer your question I will say, that I do not believe one has to be immersed to be saved and the church I go to does not subscribe to this. In short, baptism is an outward sign of saving faith and therefore I assume you would not hold to the erroneous belief of baptismal regeneration. Unfortunately, many denom. do and so do many orders of the Catholic church. I have no bickerings with pedobaptist, I do not hold to it, but I think it is an in house debate. I am not 100 percent certain where you fall soteriologicaly, but if you are a 5 point Reformed, you would subscribe to regeneration precedes faith. The above church fathers you mentioned, I have great esteem for them and enjoy their writings and no I don't think that they are going to hell. Now, grant you, there may be some Baptist denom. that believe this, but I have no affiliation with them. Reformed Baptist, are somewhat of outcast in the mainline Baptist Denom. Anyways, it is not about a denomination, but about Christ and the Holy Word. Your brother in Christ, Brad | ||||||
2 | Do Jesus and Paul agree on salv by faith | NT general Archive 1 | nivlac5 | 92659 | ||
certainly I agree! The baptism of the Holy Spirit upon faith. The very one John the Baptist said would come with Christ(Acts 10-11)Not of water, but of spirit, the same Spirit that quickens a man who is dead in Sin.(Eph 2). Emmaus, thanks for the dialogue, it has been edifying and enriching. To God be the Glory, Brad | ||||||
3 | Do Jesus and Paul agree on salv by faith | NT general Archive 1 | nivlac5 | 92357 | ||
Emmaus, I agree with you, the LDS view of Baptism is different. I also affirm that you and I share much more in common theologicaly than LDS. Actually, I don't share much of anything with LDS. But with the issue of soteriology I am disagreement with both groups. I must say that when you mentioned that before the Reformation there was agreement. I would definately beg to differ. Why do you think the creeds were written? Which I agree with, by the way. They were written to combat heresy, such as Pelagian heresy(dealing with soteriology), others include the Arian heresy, Sabellian heresy as well others. All occurring prior to the Reformation. The Reformation was needed, because, at that point in time the Church had fallen away from the central tenants of Holy scripture and irrefutably became corrupt. Way more could be said, but nevertheless, these controversies span well before the Reformation. Christians must continualy appeal the authority of scripture and be careful not to let tradition trump the word of God. In Christ, Brad |
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4 | Do Jesus and Paul agree on salv by faith | NT general Archive 1 | nivlac5 | 92354 | ||
Emmaus, I admit I am interpreting the scriptures in light of my theology and training. Like the Bereans in scripture, scripture and the Holy Spirit are my guide to my theology. Now, if you are honest, you too are iterpreting scripture in light of your theology, which comes from the Catholic Catechism as well as your training therein. Certainly I respect your point of view and was just making the point from Acts 10,11, Eph 2, Romans 4-5, and Titus and Galatians, just name a few, that regeneration and justification and salvation is a work of God alone and not merited by our works,whether, baptism, communion,pennance etc. That's all. It is interesting discussion and one that some friends of mine are having with a member of the LDS church. They of course have their requirements for complete forgiveness and salvation, which is mandated by their church. Nevertheless, this discussion has been around for centuries and I think it is healthy to search the scriptures and let the word of God dot its work in our hearts. May He give us eyes to see and ears to hear, so that we might delight in His truth. In peace, Brad | ||||||
5 | Do Jesus and Paul agree on salv by faith | NT general Archive 1 | nivlac5 | 92341 | ||
Emmaus, Just to clear up what scripture clearly says about baptism. You will recall that in Acts, many Gentiles are coming to faith. Please read these passages carefuly. You will see that these people already possesed the Holy Spirit and were washed with the blood of Christ, PRIOR to their water baptism. Water Baptism, as many believe, does not save. It is an act of obedience after salvation. These people in Acts were already saved. They had been washed, as in Titus, with the "water" of the Holy Spirit that Christ did on their behalf, hence regeneration and hence realized in time by faith/belief. Since they are truly His,they will obey His commands, but are not saved by them. Acts 10:47 "Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?" Acts 10:48 And he ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay on for a few days. Acts 11:16 "And I remembered the word of the Lord, how He used to say, 'John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.' Acts 11:17 "Therefore if God gave to them the same gift as He gave to us also after believing in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could stand in God's way?" |
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6 | Do Jesus and Paul agree on salv by faith | NT general Archive 1 | nivlac5 | 92273 | ||
did you read my last post? the first sentence says one must repent turn from their sin, and accept Christ as saviour,His death, buriel,ressurection We are seen as perfect not for our obedience but because of Christ finished work on the cross laid to our account. More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish so that I may gain Christ, Phil 3:9 and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith, When Christ said it is finished he used the greek word "tetelesti" and what does that mean, its literal translation is paid in full. Upon faith our sin debt has been cacelled forever.Heb 10:14 For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified. That is saving grace and the good news of the Gospel! Anything that puts one back in bondage to works is of the devil. Are you trusting in your obedience and works for your salvation? I sure hope not. "All our rithteoussness is like filthy rags" Isaiah 64:6. Rom 4:1 What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, has found? Rom 4:2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. Rom 4:3 For what does the Scripture say? "ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS CREDITED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS." Rom 4:4 Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due. Rom 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness, Rom 4:6 just as David also speaks of the blessing on the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works: Rom 4:7 "BLESSED ARE THOSE WHOSE LAWLESS DEEDS HAVE BEEN FORGIVEN, AND WHOSE SINS HAVE BEEN COVERED. Rom 4:8 "BLESSED IS THE MAN WHOSE SIN THE LORD WILL NOT TAKE INTO ACCOUNT." Rom 4:9 Is this blessing then on the circumcised, or on the uncircumcised also? For we say, "FAITH WAS CREDITED TO ABRAHAM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS." Rom 4:10 How then was it credited? While he was circumcised, or uncircumcised? Not while circumcised, but while uncircumcised; YES, one is justified by faith alone apart from works, but works will follow and are not meritorious. Was not Abraham justified by faith before the law? See Gen 15. I find it travesty that so many believe that their works of goodnes will justify them before God. This is what cults do,simply to put the yoke of bondage on their devotees and mind control them and lure money and other things from them. This is another gospel and brings upon God's wrath. Gal 1:6 I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel; Gal 1:7 which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. Gal 1:8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed! Gal 1:9 As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed! May we be found in His righteousness and not the menstrual rags of our own self-righteouness. In His service, Brad |
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7 | Do Jesus and Paul agree on salv by faith | NT general Archive 1 | nivlac5 | 92236 | ||
God forbid! I am not saying that works are not important. Of course people have to repent and receive Christ as savior, but the works of obedience are not meritorious for salvation. Salvation, eternal life occur upon faith. "The just shall live by faith" Romans 1. John 5:24 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life. So, maybe we are just misunderstanding one another, like ships passing in the night. Man must repent, believe to be saved, but this is not a work!.It is a work of God see Heb 1 and Phil 1:6 and Eph 1,2. and Romans 4,5. So in summary, works are a natural outpouring of true regenerating, saving faith. See Eph 2:2-11. In short we are saved by faith alone, but a faith that is not alone. See James 2. Secure in Him , Brad | ||||||
8 | Do Jesus and Paul agree on salv by faith | NT general Archive 1 | nivlac5 | 92229 | ||
We might see this baptism here differently.I see this as baptism of the Holy Spirit upon the monergestic work of God upon regeneration which occurs just prior to faith.See Eph 1,2. You will recall, that when John the Baptist was performing water baptism he points to the One who will not baptize with water but with the Holy Spirit. This is not a work of course. Additionaly, I do believe it is important to be water baptized as believer, simply because it is a command and a witness to others who do not know Christ. It of course is not meritorius to salvation, which is in harmony with Titus 3:5 and the other passages sighted. Brad | ||||||
9 | Do Jesus and Paul agree on salv by faith | NT general Archive 1 | nivlac5 | 92169 | ||
Thanks for asking, I have been to mass several times and yes I have been baptized. I guess we will have to disagree about the merit of the ritual sacraments. I believe Christ death once and for all paid for my sin and the sacraments do not merit salvation indirectly or directly Heb 10:14. I will stick with scripture and trust in it rather than the catechism. I can only leave you with the following verses and take your word as stated above, that your trust is in the Christ and His merit. Titus 3:5 He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit, More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish so that I may gain Christ, Phil 3:9 and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith, Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; Eph 2:9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. Eph 2:10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them. Brad |
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10 | Do Jesus and Paul agree on salv by faith | NT general Archive 1 | nivlac5 | 92154 | ||
So my salvation is imperfect? Simply because I am not Catholic? Pretty strong assertion. As a born again christian I stand confidently justified and forgiven, not because any membership, baptism or sacrament but because of the finished work of Christ on the Cross.Don't get me wrong, I believe baptism, communion are important, but not meritorious for salvation. Heb 10:14 For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified. Consider this question. If you were to stand before God and He were to ask you, why should I allow you in to heaven? What would be you plea? Brad |
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11 | Do Jesus and Paul agree on salv by faith | NT general Archive 1 | nivlac5 | 92152 | ||
If we are saved by following exactly what the bible says then reconcile that with the following passages. Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; Eph 2:9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. Eph 2:10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them Titus 3:5 He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit, Rom 5:1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, Gal 2:16 nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified. |
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12 | Do Jesus and Paul agree on salv by faith | NT general Archive 1 | nivlac5 | 92150 | ||
The answer to your question is, no, no one is saved outside of Christ. That, I am sure, we agree on. The question is, is Rome the sole representative of Christ and His Gospel? Just to make sure that I understand what you are saying. You believe that the act of baptism saves ones soul? Is that baptism only valid in the Catholic church? Our you trusting in you baptism for your eternal security? How does this compare with John 5:24 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life. Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. Rom 1:17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, "BUT THE RIGHTEOUS man SHALL LIVE BY FAITH." Rom 3:28 For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. Rom 5:1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; Eph 2:9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. Eph 2:10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them. |
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13 | Do Jesus and Paul agree on salv by faith | NT general Archive 1 | nivlac5 | 92139 | ||
Emmauss,I cut and pasted to Google and no site exist. I then tried Yahoo, and I got the site but it is one page long and 95 percent encoded. Is there an eglish version? Do I need to use a different search engine? | ||||||
14 | Do Jesus and Paul agree on salv by faith | NT general Archive 1 | nivlac5 | 92137 | ||
Emmaus, you have attacked no one. The issue at hand is the Catholic Catechism and whether it holds true to scripture. I see conflict with Ch.95 and 1195 as well as others with the Holy Writ. The question still remains. Is one justified, sanctified, forgiven outside of Rome? Please address this and correct me where I am in error. | ||||||
15 | Do Jesus and Paul agree on salv by faith | NT general Archive 1 | nivlac5 | 92132 | ||
Not such site exist. is the address right? | ||||||
16 | Do Jesus and Paul agree on salv by faith | NT general Archive 1 | nivlac5 | 92131 | ||
Rather than being angry and throwing salvo,please address the question at hand. | ||||||
17 | Do Jesus and Paul agree on salv by faith | NT general Archive 1 | nivlac5 | 92125 | ||
Emmaus, I dont mean to come accross as demeaning, but you must address this issue. My question still stands. Is one justified, saved, sanctified,forgiven outside of Rome? I ask this not to prove a point for the sake of proving a point. It is, frankly, a matter of life and death and I feel compelled to communicate the liberating truth of the Gospel to whoever will listen. If I did not care I would not share this with you. I finally received the tape, which I believe is fair and balanced and interviews catholic priest and laity. It is called CATHOLICISM/CRISIS OF FAITH by Lumen Produtions P.O. Box 595, Curpertino, CA 95015. You can probably find at Jeremiah Films(look on the internet) I would be glad to send it to you free of charge. Just let me know your address. You can send it to my email at bradfr01@hotmail.com. I pray that you will not let tradition trump what the Bible teaches and I leave in peace and love. Brad | ||||||
18 | Do Jesus and Paul agree on salv by faith | NT general Archive 1 | nivlac5 | 92020 | ||
I see schizophrenia here. Chapter 95, 1195, clearly say that salvation is accomplished by the sacraments in addtion to Christ. Which is it? Christ alone or Christ plus some ritual act? This is double talk. Lets just cut to the chase. Emmaus,can one be justified,sanctified, forgiven and declared not guilty outside of the Roman Catholic Church? Does one need to be part of this institution or any other to have peace with God and forgiveness of sins? What do you believe? | ||||||
19 | Do Jesus and Paul agree on salv by faith | NT general Archive 1 | nivlac5 | 91246 | ||
Emmaus, you asked for Catholic documentation on the issue of soteriology. Please explain the following statements. Is one saved and justified by Christ alone, faith alone , grace alone or does one need additional "help" i.e sacraments, works that can only be given by one church body?The bible is clear, one is saved by Christ alone and not by any church or institution. That begs the question, are we trusting in what was once done for us by Christ or in the liturgy, tradition, sacraments of a Church? "All our righteousness is like filthy rags" Is 64:6 Titus 3:5 He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit. The following is but one of many examples on an istitution that says otherwise. 15. "The second part of the Catechism explains how God's SALVATION, accomplished once for all through Christ Jesus and the Holy Spirit, is made present in the sacred actions of the Church's liturgy (Section One), especially in the seven sacraments (Section Two). " To view the context, please visit http://www.christusrex.org/www1/CDHN/prologue.html#STRUCTURE 95. "'It is clear therefore that, in the supremely wise arrangement of God, sacred Tradition, Sacred Scripture and the Magisterium of the Church are so connected and associated that one of them cannot stand without the others. Working together, each in its own way, under the action of the one Holy Spirit, they all contribute effectively to the SALVATION of souls.'[DV 10 # 3.]" To view the context, please visit http://www.christusrex.org/www1/CDHN/profess3.html#INTERPRETATION I will still be sending you additional documentation. A video specificaly, but have yet to receive it. Secure in Him, Brad |
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20 | Do Jesus and Paul agree on salv by faith | NT general Archive 1 | nivlac5 | 90397 | ||
So we agree on the issue of justification as I spelled it out in the last post. The sources of Catholic doctrine that I mention do document from original catholic sources. As I said, once I receive the info. I would be glad to pass it on. What a joy it is to know that we are forgiven and not guilty before Him. | ||||||
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