Results 1 - 6 of 6
|
|
|||||
Results from: Notes Author: leabeater Ordered by Date |
||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | God's people's land? | 2 Chr 7:14 | leabeater | 17867 | ||
Clarification on "all" in 2Ti 3:16. All Scripture is profitable. To impose an interpretive system which hedges on the plain meaning of the word "all" is perilous. We're hedging on our Old Testament Bill. Part of the reason for this, I believe, is wrong thinking about law and grace. The law is no more an enemy of grace than the sacrificial system was. It compliments grace. By the way, Ezekiel makes it clear that the "legalistic" sacrificial system is going to be reinstituted. Instructive. Bill, of course, "all" does not mean "all" the Old Testament applies to Christians. No one has said in 2Ch 7:14 notes that it does. What I am saying is that inspiration and profitability is assured for the entirety of Scripture. 2Ti 3:16 is inclusive. That is, each passage, all Scripture, is profitable for counsel: whether it be teaching, reproof, correction or training in righteousness. Some passages to a greater degree than others, true. But all are profitable. That, I believe, is the plainest sense of the grammar. There isn't single verb in 2Ti 3:16. Our English supplies one. Instructive in itself. Further, Timothy's mother Eunice was a Jewess. From a child he had been brought up with the Scriptures (2Ti. 3:15). Simple math makes it impossible for this passage to refer primarily to the New Testament. When Timothy's Jewish mother taught him the Scriptures as a child she was teaching him the Old Testament. Further, "rightly dividing" (KJV 2Ti. 2:15; NAS "accurately handling") means to "teach accurately" (Friberg's Analytical Greek Lexicon). To use that verse to cleave our Bibles in two is hardly useful instruction (pardon the generalization and play on words). 2Ch 7:14 is profitable, applies to all believers of every "covenant" and "dispensation," gives us a bright beacon in a very dark day, and allows us the hope that our land can again enjoy God's healing if we, as believers, turn from our wicked ways. There are many passages in the New Testament I could have used to provide this same instruction. But none so completely fit the catastrophe we witnessed on September 11, 2001. And none was so fitting after having seen Mrs. Tyner's note to my son Joshua (see "The Answer" note in this passage). Brother Bill, I may have seemed harsh here but I assure you nothing of the kind is in mind. Thank you for your reply. John |
||||||
2 | God's people's land? | 2 Chr 7:14 | leabeater | 17463 | ||
Church. Somehow that word keeps cropping up. OK, let's look at this another way. Question 1: Would you fellowship with Abraham in glory and profit from it? Is Abraham's faith fundamentally different from yours (Rom. 4)? Question 2: Is the God of the Old Testament the God of the New Testament (Mal. 3:6)? Does the immutability of God operate only in context? Context is determinative of word meaning. But I submit that you do not use the "rules" of language in everyday conversation in the way you are trying to apply it to your Bible. For example, when you talk about "praying" you do not attempt to distinguish between its meaning today and prayer 3 millennia ago. Question 3: Does Old Testament inspiration equal New Testament inspiration? The Mind that authored our Bible assures us that it is profitable (2 Tim. 3:16). Tell me, what profit does this passage offer to you? How do you read it? John |
||||||
3 | God's people's land? | 2 Chr 7:14 | leabeater | 17452 | ||
Yes, it does apply to the church. One of the most spiritually crippling contagions of the church today is an interpretive method which dismisses much of the Old Testament and relegates it to an irrelevent status. This was not the position of Christ, the position of the apostolic company or the position of non-apostolic New Testament authors. The Old Testament is not simply an interesting historical document addressing questions of origins and geneological tables. It is inspired Scripture, it is doctrinal teaching and profitable for our instruction (cf. 2Ti. 3:16). There are literally thousands of direct quotations and allusions to the Old Testament in the New. Why? To the New Testament writers the Old Testament was preparatory to the New. To them it was essential to the New. The first century church fed on the Old Testament and what few epistles (if any) that were available to them. Matthew, the first book of the New Testament, begins with (of all things) an "Old Testament" geneological table. Why? Matthew, inspired by the Holy Spirit, saw the most intimate connection between Messianic promises of the Old as necessary for their counterpart fulfillment in the New. But this goes much deeper than prophetic passages. The foundation of our atonement rests on Old Testament doctrines such as that found in Lev. 17:11. I've just touched the tip of an iceberg here. There is so much more. Let me just end with this. Do you read your Bible through in a year? If you do you will find that you are steeped in the Old Testament until mid October. In the 1995 version of the NAS 23,090 verses are in the Old Testament. 8,012 are in the New. Why did God put so much of what He had to say to us in the Old Testament? John |
||||||
4 | God's people's land? | 2 Chr 7:14 | leabeater | 17449 | ||
Correct. That is one application. Another might be more narrow however. Contextually the Lord was speaking primarily about Palestine. Solomon would have understood Israel as the primary application. That narrows it a bit. But we could also speak of the "land" of Ethiopia (Gen. 2:11), the "land" of Gilead (Josh. 22:13), the "land" of Egypt (1Ki. 9:9), etc. The Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament allows for a much higher degree of specificity such as "a piece of ground (2Ki. 8:5)." Context determines meaning. The promise given in this passage is, in my view, quite broad and therefore the meanings of the words allow for a number of applications. Further, the New Testament echoes the spirit of what is being promised here. "The effective prayer of a righteous man can accomplish much. Elijah was a man with a nature like ours, and he prayed earnestly that it would not rain...(Jam. 5:15-16)." Drawing from an Old Testament example of prayer James makes a New Testament application. This kind of hermaneutical example is instructive of what our methodology should be as well. Hope this clarifies the position I'm taking. John |
||||||
5 | God's people's land? | 2 Chr 7:14 | leabeater | 17367 | ||
My hermaneutic: follow a literal (when possible), contextual and historical interpretation of a passage. If the "rules" of language are followed, and we entertain no bias, we can consistently claim nearly any promise given to God's people in the Old Testament as applicable to His people at any time in history. To object that "land" has a highly specified, contextualized meaning whenever it was used in the Old Testament is difficult to maintain consistently and logically. If the "rain" and "pestilence" of verse 13 can be viewed as precipitation and disease effecting any of God's people then it follows that "land" can apply to that of any of God's people as well. Yes, land was specific to God's national covenants with Israel. Specific areas of land. It's borders were given in great detail (e.g. Joshua 13ff). But here we have little contextual foothold for such a limited view of the word. It might be objected that a literal temple is in view in this passage. While true it would then follow, were we to maintain this narrow semantic approach, that we need to pray in the temple precincts (v. 15) in order that our prayers be heard. Such a view becomes untenable in view of John 4:20ff. And thank-you, Lionstrong, for welcoming me aboard. John |
||||||
6 | The Answer | 2 Chr 7:14 | leabeater | 17196 | ||
I found The Answer to the world's problems. How could I be such a dolt? It was staring me in the face for two days before I saw it...and it's Monday already, ugh. Saturday morning our neighbor, an elderly bible-believing woman, showed up at our front door. She spoke briefly to one of my sons. I didn't know it at the time but she had already given The Answer to my 13 year old son Joshua. The Answer hasn't gone as deep as she intended it to with him. But she did it. It was the right thing to do. Joshua needed The Answer. I needed it. We all need it. I'm holding it in my hand now. Back to the front door. By the time I got to there she was rattling on about the other children. Then Joshua walked away. So I'm standing there with her and stumbling into a conversation about her health (always a good topic with the elderly) and our mutual bodily woes. I didn't think much about why she was there. I guess I thought it was just a neighborly visit since she stops by with goodies now and then. We ended our conversation, bid one another a good day and then I went back to the laundry. I totally forgot about the incident. Later in the day my wife gave it to me. It was a 5.5 x 8.5 pastel green note our neighbor had written and given to Joshua before I got to the door. And there it was. The Answer. It read as follows: 9-22-01 Dear Joshua: My face is RED because I LIED to you yesterday when you asked if we had a tire pump. I said, "No," but we do have one. God showed me my Black (picture of a heart). I am sorry. Now, please forgive me for lying to you (God hates lies!). If you need to pump up your tires you may use our pump in our drive way. Sincerely, Mrs. Tyner This is the frightening part. I don't know if I have the courage to go through with what she started. "If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land." 2 Chronicles 7:14 |
||||||