Results 1 - 6 of 6
|
|
|||||
Results from: Notes Author: hobbzilla Ordered by Date |
||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | divorce is not always a sin. | 1 Cor 7:15 | hobbzilla | 83111 | ||
justme: I agree whole-heartily with your assessment of the divorce situation in America and the stance of many churches. I don't believe that you will find a church on this planet that teaches the precise will of God and obeys it to even the smallest stroke of the pen. Churches are run by man and thus subject to man's false interpretations and folly. justme et al: Obviously I was not trying to imply that there is ever a case that a sinless believer would ever be party to a divorce. But all I am stating is that there are cases where God permits (Mt. 19:9; Deut 24:1-4) or in some instances even COMMANDS (Ezra 10:10-17) the act of divorce in a marriage. I agree with you entirely, permitting a divorce is not the same as commanding a divorce.. so obviously in a situation where a spouse commits sexual immorality the innocent spouse (not innocent in sin altogether, but innocent in the act of porneia) has been given permission under scripture to divorce her is then without sin in the ACTION of divorce (not his actions leading up to the divorce, not loving her like Christ loves the church is a sin, or committing adultery of the heart is a sin.. which I do NOT believe to fall within the definition of term used 'porneia' - which I have heard some people say that my spouse had impure thoughts, so thus he committed adultery according to Jesus (Mat 5:28) therefore I am permitted to divorce him -- again ignorance of the word used to justify a fleshy action.. which is what a lot of church goers seem to parrot-speak in circumstances they have not gone through, and know very little about, scriptural speaking.) However, I believe a caveat exists: If God specifically COMMANDS you in your own special circumstance (an angel of the Lord, a vision, the Holy Spirit, a burning bush, etc. etc.) to NOT file for divorce then obviously your act of disobedience in filing for a divorce (although fully "permitted" in the scripture) would be a sin! To see this in a simple yet clear example is to read Mat 1:19-24. Of note here is also the term "divorce" when Joseph was going to divorce Mary quietly so that she would not be possibly stoned or her family disgraced (which was accounted to him as being righteous - a note for all of the believers who read this who's spouse has committed sexual immorality against them bringing this fact to light to disgrace your spouse publicly is therefore read by me as NOT righteous. Also of note is that at this point Joseph and Mary were not 'ceremonially married' but bound to one another in marriage nonetheless). Thus as I stated and believe: not in _every_ case is the ACT of divorce itself a sin, but in ALL cases the act of divorce is CAUSED by sin. Perhaps a moot point to some... but in the circumstance where a believer divorces his wife for sexual immorality, I believe it is wrong to tell him by signing the divorce papers he is knowingly about to commit a sin. Your thoughts? -zilla |
||||||
2 | What makes a christian an unbeliever? | 1 Cor 7:15 | hobbzilla | 82992 | ||
Greetings in Christ. I would like to note that as believers in Christ, we are no longer under the law. The 10 commandments states nothing concerning accepting Jesus as lord and savior and that he died on the cross and shed his blood to cover your sins. Yet, I assure you that if you do not accept this in your heart to be the truth, you have not the possibility for salvation. So, it is a false assumption to state that just because a violation of an act that isn't contained in the 10 commandments you cannot be declared an unbeliever. It is my own perception and from personal experience that I believe that the majority of time this question is asked, it comes out of the fleshly desire for the innocent and wrongfully divorced Christian to justify a potential remarriage on the grounds that their self-proclaimed believing husband/wife divorced them and as a result that act affirmed the fact they were never a true unbeliever. I believe that there is not any one sin that a true believer cannot fall victim to. Therefore, I would urge caution that you are listening to God rather than your own flesh. For if the disobiedent divorcer is a true believer the grace of God can result in reconciliation of the marriage. However, I firmly believe the Bible teaches (Deut 24:1-4) once the disobiendient marries another (which is often the case in adulterous affairs), you are no longer under the bond of marriage and God strictly commands that you "must not take (them) back to be (your) (spouse) after (they) have been defiled; for that is an abomination before the LORD". If the disobiendent divorcer has committed sexual immorality post-divorce, but still remains unmarried, I feel it is still God's desire for the marriage to be reconciled.. but He does permit you to no longer be under the bond of marriage, only due to your hard heart. Who knows how long it takes a true believer to repent and turn from his sin? Our clocks do not hold time with God's clock. |
||||||
3 | divorce is not always a sin. | 1 Cor 7:15 | hobbzilla | 82956 | ||
Hank, I appreciate your viewpoints and far superior knowledge and wisdom of the truth. By your statement of 44 years of marriage, you are more wise than the man of your youth, which I certainly am. I am trying to listen to God during my own rainstorm. I am a believer in Christ and my testimony involves my own parents divorce due to an adulterous affair. My wife also is from a broken home and is a self proclaimed believer. Knowing what I have only witnessed and heard from her lips about her past, I would have a hard time convincing anyone (or me for that matter) that she is a true beliver. I firmly believe that our marriage was not created in heaven but instead based on our fleshly desires and have repented and accepted God's forgiveness. I have however, struggled with the question: Is it ever God's will for a couple who is married to be divorced? I believe that God knows the result of this situation before it even began. And I feel that God has allowed my wife to leave me in order that I am called back to him. Which brings up all sorts of spritual questions to light. I however am searching for the truth from this at a different viewpoint than you. We will be married 4 years this June. She no longer feels happy in this marriage or in love with me and left 4 months ago and moved in with her parents. I have adimitly stood firm on not be filing for divorce. She has shown no desire to reconcile or seek counsel. Nor has she confirmed filing divorce proceedings but has not ruled them out. She has however affirmed my belief that she has a specific 'someone' she thinks about 'what life would be like...' I obviously expressed my disapproval and urged her not to entertain those thoughts.. because I too have fallen victim to those fleshly desires during these past 4 months and quickly saw them for what they were. I have fasted and prayed and called upon the counsel of others. Although I have gone to her in private and a pastor at church was witness to her deliberate biblical disobidence when he told her that she needed to work on this marriage and return home.. I have not formaly asked the church nor know of anything that would fulfill the biblical scenario of Matthew 18. I felt it just for her to come to the decision of whether or not to work on the marriage or file for divorce on her own.. then if she chose to file for divorce then go to the church. If she still didn't listen to the church and filed for divorce anyway.. I would feel free from this marriage on the basis of 1 Cor 7:15. But all of this is premature as I am love her AND am in love with her and desperately want her to turn to God and repent and reconcile this marriage. I feel like I have rambled enough now.. and await your (or anyone elses) thoughts on this matter. |
||||||
4 | divorce is not always a sin. | 1 Cor 7:15 | hobbzilla | 82933 | ||
Thank you for your brief yet concise background on your use of the term "sanction". In that regard, I agree some distinction then can be made in regards to "approve" versus "permit". I agree with you and believe that this is not to say that he encourages or endorses or applauds it in every circumstance or under NO circumstance. But I believe God's will for some is different than others. I would interested to hear your thoughts on Ezra commanding the Isralites to divorce their pagan wives. Do you believe that was of God or Ezra? |
||||||
5 | divorce is not always a sin. | 1 Cor 7:15 | hobbzilla | 82932 | ||
Okay, so when Jesus said, "whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery", which is equivelent to saying if a husband's wife commits sexual immorality and he divorces her and marries another -- he does not commit adultery upon remarrying. But you are stating that he commits the sin of "hardness of heart" upon the initial act of divorcing his adulterous wife? That would lead one to believe that since God permitted him to divorce under this circumstance then God permitted that sin to occur. (Do you believe that God permits you to divorce upon those grounds?? - some do not.) Divorcing the adulterous wife in and of itself doesn't cause the wife to sin.. granted, the act of her sexual immorality was sin. So, if you believe that God permits a divorce of this kind, then God permits the husband to sin? God hates sin. Explain why would He permit it? As I stated I believe that divorce is ALWAYS caused by sin.. the sin that is the cause in this case is the adultery on behalf of the wife. But I don't believe that in this case the act of "divorce" was sin on either party. |
||||||
6 | divorce is not always a sin. | 1 Cor 7:15 | hobbzilla | 82922 | ||
I have a hard time understanding your statement. You seem to me to be contradicting yourself. You state that there are conditions under which it is permitted (which I believe the Bible teaches are: porneia and desertion by an unbeliever). However you state that God never sanctions divorce. One definition of sanctioned is: "Authoritative permission or approval that makes a course of action valid." There is not authority other than that of God, and if he "permits" it.. is that not in itself "sanctioned" by him? I agree if we could all love one another with God's love that we could fulfill Jesus remark that in the beginning it (divorce) was not so. But we all fall short of the glory of God and he has permitted us to divorce under specific circumstances because of our hard-hearted fleshly nature. God instructed Ezra to do his pleasure and He therefore told the people to divorce their pagan wives (Ezra 10:11). Again, you feel this not sanctioned by God? I also have a hard time understanding why my analogy of God's divorce is flawed? It is precisely His words that state that Israel was commiting adultary against Him and so he actually wrote a certificate of divorce as you are required to do in Deuteronomy 24. (note: not as a requirment/commandment to divorce.. but if you take that course of action.. you must actually write it). |
||||||