Results 1 - 8 of 8
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Results from: Notes Author: dlnash Ordered by Date |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Blue marbles roll faster than red ones | Rev 19:4 | dlnash | 899 | ||
I'm not putting you down, bobmoy. I'm simply saying that if you believe the heretical teachings of the Urantia Book then you are lost. That's not a put-down, that's just the facts. Living by the words of Jesus is indeed the path to eternal life, but if you include in those words of Jesus the ones supposedly attributed to him by the Urantia Book then you are in error. In one of your other messages, you said, "I use this half of the book [referring to section 4 of the Urantia Book] as a commentary that helps me with my own Bible study and teaching." In another message, you claim that the Bible is the first of the two witnesses spoken of in Revelation, the Urantia Book being the other. Both of these seem to indicate that you believe the Bible to be God-inspired. At the very least you put the Bible and the Urantia Book on par with one another as co-witnesses. But then in your most recent response to me you said, "Yes, the Scriptures are man-made." I can only take this to mean that you agree with the Urantia Book's denial of the God-inspired authenticity and accuracy of the Bible since that's what I was talking about. But then you go on to say, "However, the words of Jesus that are printed in The Bible are accurate and true." Can't you see that this is double-talk? If the Scriptures are simply man made documents, devoid of divine inspiration, then how can you cherry-pick the recorded words of Jesus out and say that they are accurate while at the same time denying the accuracy of everything else? If the Bible is simply man made then none of it can be trusted. And if the Bible is man made while the Urantia Book is God-inspired (you said as much when you claimed it was the sealed scroll mentioned in Daniel), then how can the Bible be co-equal with the Urantia Book as one of the two witnesses? How can something man made be a witness to God's word and works? Finally, if the Bible is simply man made while the Urantia Book is God-inspired then why do you use the Urantia Book as merely a commentary while studying the Bible? Shouldn't it be the other way around? You said, "The Word was not made 'book'." This is an attempt to twist the argument by hanging the whole thing on a single definition of "word". The term "word" has several different but closely related shades of meaning, especially in Greek thought (remember that the New Testament was written in Greek). When John 1:1 says, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God," the Greek term for "word" has other meanings as well. To quote from a study note in my NIV Study Bible: "'Word.' Greeks used this term not only of the spoken word but also of the unspoken word, the word still in the mind -- the reason. When they applied it to the universe, they meant the rational principle that governs all things. Jews, on the other hand, used it as a way of referring to God. Thus John used a term that was meaningful to both Jews and Gentiles." So the fact that the Word was made flesh and lived among us does not mean that the word in another sense could not also be recorded on paper for posterity. You are attempting to deny the God-inspired origin of the Bible by playing word games. In one of your other responses to me, you said: "Yes, all of The Urantia Book is valid and accurate." I can only take this to mean that you don't believe in a single Trinity, you don't believe in original sin or the fall of man, and you don't believe in the redemptive death of Jesus, since all of these denials are taught by the Urantia Book, which you claim is entirely valid and accurate. You say that you believe the words of Jesus as recorded in the four gospels? Then how do you reconcile the Urantia Book's denial of the redemptive death of Jesus with Luke 24:45-47: "Then he [Jesus] opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures. He told them, 'This is what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, and repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations....'" (NIV). For that matter, the fact that Jesus caused them to understand the Scriptures demonstrates that He thought the Scriptures were authoritative rather than man made. I must confess bobmoy that I don't understand you. Between your self-contradictory statements, your attempt to villify me, and your highly improbably claims (like the Urantia Book driving people insane), I strongly suspect that you are a troll. At the very least you are trying to lead others into the Urantia Book heresy. But whatever the case may be, I think it is apparent that neither of us is going to convince the other of anything so I suggest that we quit trying. |
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2 | Have you ever looked at Urantia Book? | Rev 19:4 | dlnash | 860 | ||
Bobmoy wrote: "Yes, you are correct about the cult aspects of the book. We are called to enjoy the wheat and throw away the chaft [sic]." I could ask where in the Bible you find that doctrine, but I'll overlook that for the moment. If the Urantia Book is suppose to be a divine revelation, then how can any of it be chaff? If you admit that some of it is chaff, then you admit that the source which revealed it is at least partially in error. How can God be in error? Further, if you admit that some of it is chaff and therefore its source is known to be error-prone, then how can you trust any of it? How do you know, for example, that it isn't wrong about the names of the 24 elders? | ||||||
3 | Have you ever looked at Urantia Book? | Rev 19:4 | dlnash | 859 | ||
Bobmoy wrote: "About 1,000000 copies have been sold by only word-of-mouth advertising from Urantia readers." Bobmoy, do you mean by this that no copies have been sold via commercial advertising? I ask because 20 years or so ago there was a book store here in Austin, Texas called The Urantia Book Store. It advertised on television, I remember the commercials. | ||||||
4 | Blue marbles roll faster than red ones | Rev 19:4 | dlnash | 857 | ||
The testing of the spirit is judged by whether or not something is in agreement with the word of God as expressed in the Bible. You may find the so-called "words of Jesus" as related in the Urantia Book to be in accord with his recorded words in the Bible, but I don't. The Urantia Book has Jesus saying, "The Scriptures are faulty and altogether human in origin," (p. 1767), while the Bible has Jesus quoting often from the Scriptures and citing them as authoritative. Further, the Urantia Book denies that Jesus is the one and only son of God and instead says that he is the 7th incarnation of Michael of Nebadon. The Urantia Book denies the existence of a single Trinity and instead postulates the existence of three Trinities and seven Triunities. The Urantia Book denies the fall of man, original sin, and the atoning death of Jesus. In short, the Urantia Book denies all of the fundamental beliefs of Christianity. Bobmoy, if you can truly believe that the Urantia Book is in accord with the Bible then Satan has you so badly deceived that my meager words have no hope of saving you. The Bible says that in the end times many would be led away by false teachings. I can only hope and pray that God will use some mightier instrument than me to bring you back to the truth. |
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5 | Who are the twenty four elders? | Rev 19:4 | dlnash | 853 | ||
I need to be more careful of my use of idioms. I forget that these are international forums and that not everyone would be familiar with Americanisms like "meat and potatoes." Sorry about that. And good luck on getting a Japanese-language forum running. I don't have a clue where to get software like that. | ||||||
6 | Who are the twenty four elders? | Rev 19:4 | dlnash | 819 | ||
You're not changing the subject, stobor, you're bringing it back to the original topic. The discussion spun off into Urantia silliness only because someone tried to answer this question by citing the Urantia Book. We've all got to fight heresies when we find them, and I thought this one was important enough to shine the bright light of truth on it as quickly and as thoroughly as possible. As for the identities of the elders, the Bible doesn't say and so we aren't likely to find out until we get there. It is an interesting question from an intellectual perspective, but personally I try not to sweat the esoteric stuff like this and instead choose to concentrate on the "meat and potatoes" of Christianity. The fact that they are apparently rather important folks in the grand scheme of things who nonetheless spend their time praising God is the only important fact I take out of that verse. Kinda puts us in our places, huh? And charis, the software is stupid if I say it is! :-) Hyperbole is one of my more favorite literary techniques. |
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7 | Blue marbles roll faster than red ones | Rev 19:4 | dlnash | 771 | ||
Grrr, the stupid forum software ate almost all of the backslashes in my previous post and this didn't show up in the preview. I think I know what's going on and how to correct it so let's try it again. Here are the URLs I tried to mention in my previous note, in the order I mentioned them: [http:\\www.urantia.com\] [http:\\www.urantiabook.com\] [http:\\www.urantia.org\detail.html] [http:\\urantiabook.org\web_intro1.htm] [http:\\www.religioustolerance.org\urantia.htm] [http:\\logosresourcepages.org\urantia1.html] |
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8 | Blue marbles roll faster than red ones | Rev 19:4 | dlnash | 768 | ||
This is very annoying. I want to include some URLs in my response but the software which runs this forum won't let me include forward-slashes or angle brackets. So I'm having to improvise. I've enclosed the URLs in square brackets rather than angle brackets and I've used back-slashes instead of forward-slashes within the URLs. Please unmangle the URLs before you use them. Bobmoy, your words about the Urantia Book being only for people "grounded on the knowledge that Jesus Christ is Savior and Lord" and that all other readers will be "led astry and follow the path of darkness" sound like a variation of ancient gnosticism, the 1st and 2nd century heresy that proclaimed the need to obtain special, hidden knowledge in order to achieve salvation (the name "gnosticism" is derived from the Greek word for knowledge, "gnosis"). Gnosticism taught that only people who were "good enough" could obtain this special knowledge. Your words seem to echo this gnostic exclusivism. The word of God is suppose to be for everyone, not just a select few who are able to understand it. That said, let's talk about the Urantia Book itself. There are two organizations affiliated with the Urantia Book. The Urantia Foundation [http:\www.urantia.com] owns the copyright to the book and oversees its publication. The Urantia Book Fellowship [http:\www.urantiabook.com] is a group of Urantia "believers" unaffiliated with the Foundation. You can find a description of the Urantia Book and its full text online at [http:\www.urantia.orgdetail.html]. The UB Fellowship also offers its own description of the book at [http:\urantiabook.orgweb_intro1.htm]. I won't quote any of this material here, but I encourage anyone who is interested to read those web pages. For some outside, independent opinions on the Urantia Book, see [http:\www.religioustolerance.orgurantia.htm] and [http:\logosresourcepages.orgurantia1.html]. The former, as the the URL "religioustolerance.org" implies, is a nonpartisan description of the Urantia Book. The latter is a description (from about 10 years ago) written from a decidedly Christian perspective. The bottom line is that the Urantia Book is New Age. It contradicts the Bible in many, very fundamental ways. It is just another heresy. But don't take my word for it, go research it for yourself. |
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