Results 1 - 6 of 6
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Results from: Notes Author: clinzey Ordered by Date |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Matthew talked about JC as a Jew - why? | NT general Archive 1 | clinzey | 108772 | ||
I hate to be trivial, but I don't think God would take umbridge to Jesus being called "JC." Remember, Jesus wasn't even his real name. It is merely the english version of the Greek "Iesous," which is merely a Greek version of the Hebrew "Ieshua," which in english is also known as Joshua, or in slang vernacular, "Josh." Now, which should we use? | ||||||
2 | Adam and sin entering the world. | Rom 5:12 | clinzey | 108771 | ||
Colin, there are a few things that get me upset. One of them is the kind of personal attack you and Hank use in place of calm discussion. We serve the same God, even if we have different opinions, and we don't deserve such treatment. Another thing that upsets me is when people pull Scripture out of context and use it to bolster their own agenda, when all along the text they use does not speak to their case at all. Such is your use of James 1:6-8. James is referring to asking and receiving wisdom from God, not anything else. Now I expect you to make some crack about wisdom, but honestly, the verses have nothing whatsoever to do with this conversation. Save it for another day. |
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3 | Adam and sin entering the world. | Rom 5:12 | clinzey | 108769 | ||
Hank, I love discussing God and the Bible, but your personal attacks on Kichmon are crossing the line. As for the opening chapters of the Genesis narrative, Gen. 1:1 begins the account of creation. Gen. 2:2-3 brings that story to a close, where God rested. 2:4 begins the story all over again, "This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created," and proceeds to tell the creation story. I can read printed material with accuracy. I do not think that my ideas are right and God's wrong. I suffer from no syndrome. But according to the book, one story ends and then the story is told over again. It seems like two versions have been placed back to back. | ||||||
4 | Adam and sin entering the world. | Rom 5:12 | clinzey | 108768 | ||
Brad, that verse from John 17:17 is a good one isn't it? But I don't think that Jesus is talking about written words being historically factual, which is what kichmon and were talking about. We're talking about stories that have significant value even if they might not be fact - the kind of thing you could video tape. The fact that Jesus quotes from the OT does not necessarily make it historically true (and let's not forget that Jesus did not quote from the Hebrew OT, but from the Greek Septuagint). It does mean that they have always been recognized as stories that bring us to a fuller knowledge of God. They accomplish this if they are factual or not - but they don't by necessity have to be true. It's like the story of Job. While it appears in our Old Testament, did you know that the story is actully much older? And it appears in other civinlations and religions before it was adapted to the Jewish faith. Nevertheless, it still helps us understand God and ourselves better. And it has been accepted into our canon. Because one part may be less than literal does not bring the whole faith tumbling down. Our God is not a house of cards. He is God. |
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5 | Adam and sin entering the world. | Rom 5:12 | clinzey | 108765 | ||
Hi Hank. I certainly meant no offense with my comments. The Genesis narrative is symbolic for all men and women even if it is factually accurate! That's one of the great things about the Bible! There are so many different levels and layers of meaning. It is rich with depth. It really is my favorite book. I think part of the problem comes when we equate the the words "true" and "factual." Many things may be true without being historically factual. The ancient Jewish mindset did not perceive truth the same way that we as modern western thinkers do. They were storytellers, and with stories the main point is what is important, not all of the little details. Please stay with me a moment - It's like having an intense dream and trying to tell people about it. The way one tells a dream will not be EXACTLY they way it happened. And the telling will almost always change,sometimes by just a word or two, from telling to telling. But I still say, "This was my dream." To use a Biblical example, when Jesus sent his disciples to find an animal to use to ride into Jerusalem, how many did he tell his disciples to expect? The Gospel according to Mark tells us that he spoke of one colt -Mark 10:2- but the Gospel according to Matthew has Jesus telling them to expect a donkey AND a colt -Matthew 21:2-. How about another example? In Luke 8:27 -and Mark also- Jesus encounters a demon-posessed man and casts the demons into pigs,and yes, I believe Jesus was a miracle worker, yet Matthew 8:28 has two demon-posessed men that Jesus cleanses. Is one wrong? I don't think so, but over time stories develop and change a little. And if we see that the stories still contain truth while posessing different "facts," it's not too far a leap to say that there are other parts of the story that were not historically factual but still contain truth. Because of our western mindset we tend to think that if we see a story in print then it is historically true. The eastern mindset, of which Moses, David, and Jesus were part, understood that stories have a way of enriching our lives and faith without having to be 100 percent fact. This is not just my opinion and conjecture - my field of study is Biblical Studies and its relation to social sciences,specifically the mindset of the original audience. A story doesn't have to be literal to bring us to a deeper understanding of God. |
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6 | Adam and sin entering the world. | Rom 5:12 | clinzey | 108666 | ||
I do not see how making a choice could affect human nature. It is not plausible that one man made a choice to do wrong and thus cursed humanity. We all have the power to choose to do right or wrong actions. We can all sin or be righteous. The Adam of the Genesis narrative is simply symbolic of humanity's plight - when we have perfection we still blow it because we make unrighteous decisions. While some may view this as an attack on the authority of the Bible, it is not. The Bible is still authoritative, even if some aspects are symbolic and not literal historical accounts. |
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